The Instigator
Huffder
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Platov
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Communism is Not a Monstrosity

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/6/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 459 times Debate No: 74874
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

Huffder

Con

Perhaps we could have a more formal debate on this, instead of in the comments section of another debate.

As Con, I will, in essence, be arguing that communism is detrimental to society and a ideology doomed to failure.

My opposition, Platov, will be arguing that communism can and will work in a civilized world, and that previous leaders who have claimed to follow the ideology were either incorrect in saying this or failed for other reasons.

Round one will be spent agreeing to the debate and include the proper formalities. Round two will be spent stating our positions, no refuting of points will occur. Rounds three, four, and five will be spent in open combat.

TO THE VOTER:
"Name calling" counts as an immediate forfeit and should be penalized heavily by voters. Voters will consider sources cited, language used, and arguments used in their voting, NOT which side they agree with. Nobody likes biased voting.

I would like to ask Platov to a debate on the stated topic in the format stated above. I would be in a great deal of gratitude, should he accept.

I look forward to an intellectual debate, and may the best man win!
Platov

Pro

As I stated before, in another debate with a similar subject: In order to decide whether something is effective or not, we have to establish objectives and conditions. Unless we do so, it would be just a pile of words arguing for fish vs birds.
The core of this issue lies in fundamental difference of communism and capitalism that is prioritization of communal interests over individual. If we establish that humans are social beings and always live in communities and our planet is just a large community, then we must agree that in order to establish balanced and just society, we have to prioritize community rather than individuals striving for success. On the other hand, if our goal is to be supreme over other "lesser humans" and establish money making as ultimate purpose of humanity, then capitalism is probably the best of all. Even though money is just a universal exchange token, having no value to a human on its own.
I grew up in USSR, witnessed collapse of it and gradual change to free market democracy. Currently I live in North America.
Now I"m going to say something that might surprise most of you. In the last century our world has seen 2 dominant economical models (communism and capitalism) and 3 ideologies: Liberalism, Communism and Fascism. The fall of 2 latter ones left just one standing. Make no mistake, Liberalism is a classic ideology, with its" own mantras, lies and propaganda. Most of you are not even aware of this as a fish wouldn't"t be aware of water, since it is your paradigm. But coming from another side I can clearly see all the BS, consume on mass scale.
Debate Round No. 1
Huffder

Con

I apologize to my opposition for my taking such a large quantity of time to reply. My life got... hectic...
Anyway, I would like to thank Platov for accepting the terms and conditions of this debate. Let us begin. In this round, I will list my contentions with communism, and you will list your reasons for supporting it. Afterwards, we may attack or defend points made as we wish. I would like to point out that I will be using the United States as the example for "capitalism" and the Soviet Union and China as examples of "communism".

CONTENTION 1
As I like to say about communism, it looks good on paper, but otherwise, it cannot work. Marx and Engel's entire proposition with communism is that it will result in a classless society after years and years of class struggle. While it is easy to pinpoint examples of class struggle throughout history, we are still waiting for that "final battle" between the proletariat and the bourgeois. Although there is evidence of this final "class struggle" in the Bolshevik Revolution, the results of that Revolution far differ from a classless society. The only way, really, to get communism to work is to have all the resources go to ONE BODY, and then for THAT BODY to spread it to OTHER PEOPLE in an equal manner. The problem is: How is that in any way "classless?" Now you find that one body is in control of everything, and they can do with it as they will. Take, for example, Stalin. He lived in riches while all around him his people were starving to death, mainly at his command (I will discuss artificial famines later).

CONTENTION 2
Communism always results in death, destruction, and jealousy amongst the countries it is in. I hold fast to my numbers of 20 million at the hands of Stalin and 70 million under Mao. Furthermore, there are the examples of Pol Pot in Cambodia who killed 1.5 million people (or 1/4 of the population) and Fidel Castro, who executed 30,000 dissidents after his takeover of Cuba. On the jealousy side, I would like to point to the Blue Jeans Phenomenon in the Soviet Union. "The official beginning of "jeans fever" could be considered to be 1957, when Moscow hosted the World Festival of Youth and Students. From then onward, jeans were perceived not just as clothes but as a symbol of everything that was missing in the USSR, mainly freedom." The Soviet Union collapsed mainly because of exposure to the outside world with the creation of the Internet and Gorbachev opening the way into the West. As the Soviet people began to behold all those things the West were experiencing because of capitalism, it aroused feelings of jealousy that would contribute to the Soviet Union's downfall.
- http://rbth.com...)

I would like to thank my opposition again. If he would please list his contentions now, that would be just peachy. Thank you.
Platov

Pro

Platov forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Huffder

Con

Huffder forfeited this round.
Platov

Pro

Platov forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Huffder

Con

My opponent has forfeited rounds two, three, and four. Expand arguments.
Platov

Pro

Platov forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Huffder

Con

Huffder forfeited this round.
Platov

Pro

Platov forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by qbdkusoemv 2 years ago
qbdkusoemv
Communism under Stalin and other dictators was completely corrupt. The real version of communism that Marx laid out has never been enacted. Communism simply represents a utopian society, in which there are no socioeconomic classes and no ruling elite but rather equal distribution of wealth and goods, so everyone has their basic needs met. It's rooted in community and equality.

I'm really tired of people saying communism contradicts human nature. Well explain how you know for a fact what all human nature consists of then. Because all we really know is how our environment shapes our attitudes, values, beliefs and behaviors, and our society values greed, competition, and self-reliance above all else. Wall Street brokers make millions conning people out of their money while social workers make much less saving kids from violent homes. There are plenty of people out there, especially women, who primarily value community, charity, and compassion. If we were raised in a society that praised these same values, then we'd probably all share them.

Moreover, if humans are innately greedy, then why do we have the ability to love? And why was Louisiana ranked as the #1 happiest state in the United States? Because innately, we self-actualize through benevolence, friendship and love, not money or power. Unfortunately, the greedy men in control have cast society under a cloak of ignorance and assumptions about human nature that couldn't be further from the truth.
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