The Instigator
Tommy.leadbetter
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
jackh4mm3r
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points

Communism is better than capitalism. Please agree to opening argument before accepting.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
jackh4mm3r
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/18/2014 Category: Society
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 880 times Debate No: 61935
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (1)

 

Tommy.leadbetter

Pro

Pro
Communism-(from Latin communis " common, universal)[1][2] is a socioeconomic system structured upon common ownership of the means of production and characterized by the absence of social classes, money,[3][4] and the state; as well as a social, political and economic ideology and movement that aims to establish this social order.

I argue that this system is better for humanity than the capitalist system. By 'better' I mean:

More sustainable
Happier population
Healthier population
Better technology, science and art
Less crime
Better for the worlds environment

Capitalist system- Capitalism is an economic system in which trade, industry, and the means of production are largely or entirely privately owned and operated for profit.[1][2] Central characteristics of capitalism include capital accumulation, competitive markets and wage labour.[3] In a capitalist economy, the parties to a transaction typically determine the prices at which assets, goods, and services are exchanged.[4]

It's argument is about the two idea's, and their impact on society. Not about whether Stalin was a bad guy or not! Please no Stalin references!

Thank you
jackh4mm3r

Con

The arguments stated are sufficient for capitalism and communism, and I accept this debate as the Contender. Further, though, I would like to add a stipulation; seeing as how the State is anathema to both capitalism and communism, we keep this a debate that doesn't get into States. The imperialism of Britain and the U.S. is no more a mark on capitalism than the boondoggles of Socialist USSR and China reflect on communism. I look forward to this debate, good luck Pro.
Debate Round No. 1
Tommy.leadbetter

Pro

Tommy.leadbetter forfeited this round.
jackh4mm3r

Con

I do hope that Pro will be able to write next round. My opponent has listed several facets where he believes communism will be superior to capitalism. They include;
More sustainable
Happier population
Healthier population
Better technology
Less crime
Better for the environment.

Further, this will be a theoretical discussion not using states that espoused these competing economic systems; America is no bastion of unrestricted capitalism, and the USSR was a socialist state, not a communist nation. So, on to each point, and why capitalism will work.

More Sustainable: This was fairly vague, but I shall assume Pro meant sustainable to mean less likely to run out of resources. The market-pricing system works to conserve resources when supply is low, diverting attention towards the cheaper substitutes. When too many people sell the same good or service, the price drops, forcing the least able to find different lines of work (or to work for a former competitor). The market, then, has a natural tendency to conserve what is scarce and to discourage redundant production. [1]

Happier Population: Part of the science of economics is in studying the exchange that occurs between two trading partners. They make the deal because they feel they both gain. Trade between people encourages good feelings while at the same time making one feel like they made a good choice. All actions in capitalism are actions by free individuals, and in freedom those individuals can attempt to find the best choice for themselves. [2]

Healthier Population: Medicine in the developed world has been socialized to some degree for over a century. However, capitalism still wins here; the AMA is not the only body in the world capable of certifying doctors (or else the USA is quite negligent in not conquering the world)[3], the FDA is not the only body until the end of time capable of testing medicine; companies have an incentive to not be sued[4], and current zoning laws restrict the creation of more hospitals, thus reducing the means to treat more people[5]. This is not the fault of communism, but capitalsim has plenty of incentives to reduce the doctor shortage, reduce the barriers to new drugs while maintaining high standards, and increase the number of hospitals for the pooling of medical knowledge and capital.

Better Technology: The profit-loss system helps to incentivize investment in technology that is wanted and possible to achieve given current resources and technology. The innovation produced by entrepreneurship also leads to more uses being discovered for the same technology; capitalism, then, provides an incentive to discover technology and an incentive to find multiple uses for the technology in existence. [6]

Less Crime: Crime is caused by a number of factors other than socio-economic status; if Pro wants to make the case that "The Socialist man will have crime bred out of him", I could easily counter "Well, the capitalist man respects everyone else"s property rights to steal or aggress against someone else." It is most likely true that crime is not really effected by either communism or capitalism.

Better for the Environment: Going with a theoretical capitalist system, all property will be privately owned, hence any pollution that affects others is punishable as a form of tort. Hence, under capitalism pollution will be reduced since there is no means to externalize the additional costs of polluting. [7]

So, Capitalism, I hold, is at least capable of satisfying society on these grounds, and await Pro"s statements explaining how communism will work better.

Sources:
[1] http://wiki.mises.org...
[2] http://mises.org...
[3]http://mises.org...
[4]http://mises.org...
[5]http://mises.org...
[6]http://mises.org...
[7] http://mises.org...
Debate Round No. 2
Tommy.leadbetter

Pro

Tommy.leadbetter forfeited this round.
jackh4mm3r

Con

Arguments extended.
Debate Round No. 3
Tommy.leadbetter

Pro

Tommy.leadbetter forfeited this round.
jackh4mm3r

Con

Arguments extended.
Debate Round No. 4
Tommy.leadbetter

Pro

Tommy.leadbetter forfeited this round.
jackh4mm3r

Con

Arguments Extended.
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by jackh4mm3r 2 years ago
jackh4mm3r
@Tommy: Perhaps we should restart this debate at a time you are able to respond? You begin with opening statement, I give mine, and we have a potentially longer debate from it.
Posted by Max.Wallace 2 years ago
Max.Wallace
Dear tommy, get your bollocks up and fight sir!
Posted by Tommy.leadbetter 2 years ago
Tommy.leadbetter
Sorry for missing debate, got a lot of things on and this debate was hard begin. I wrote scraps down but didn't finalise it and have been very busy. I want to continue this debate though but I'm unable to respond on Wednesday Thursday and Friday this week. I apologise and I am disappointed myself because you are arguing this from the right perspective and I want to have this discussion with you. By the right view, I mean that we are discussing the ideas on a theoretical society rather than on current and past societies.
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
Better for who? Government would definitely grow.The freeloader class would like it.Those who do not have the gumption to start their own business would like it. They would wait till it was profitable, then step in by force of government and take it over.
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
communism: The people are all equally poor. Except for government.

Capitalism. The one who takes the most risk,makes the most money.
Posted by a_mysterious_stranger 2 years ago
a_mysterious_stranger
I would debate with you about this, but there are 2 reasons why I won't
1) You haven't listed sources
2) I'm already in a debate about this.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
Tommy.leadbetterjackh4mm3rTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture