The Instigator
zestog3
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
vaporizeislands
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Communism is the Worst Form of Governance

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/17/2013 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,124 times Debate No: 42515
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

zestog3

Pro

1. The first round is for acceptance.
2. A forfeit or concession is not allowed.
3. Debate resolution, definitions, rules, and structure cannot be changed without asking in the comments before you post your round 1 argument.

Debate resolution, definitions, rules, and structure cannot be changed in the middle of the debate.Voters, in the case of the breaking of any of these rules by either debater, all seven points in voting should be given to the other person.

Debate Structure

Round 1: Acceptance
Round 2: Presenting all arguments (no rebuttals by con)
Round 3: Refutation of opponent's arguments (no new arguments)
Round 4: Defending your original arguments and conclusion (no new arguments)

I will argue that Communism is not only the worse form of government from an economic standpoint, as in it can't sustain itself, but I will also argue from a moral standpoint.
vaporizeislands

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
zestog3

Pro

Communism is the WORST form of governance.

Communism is the merging of all things economic, political, and social, and giving all the power of decision to the rulers of this State. Their are no subcultures allowed besides what the rulers will allow. You will conform or go in jail (a cage), because you threaten the State power.

Communism is an ideology where the workers do not have a say in anything. You may think you do, but the rulers decide every aspect of any decision and you have no say in what they are.

Communism means you are insignificant. You are nothing but a pawn for the State to use in any way it wants. You are basically an ant serving the Queen (the State). You are a mindless drone who must do the bidding of the State.

You will live in poverty. There is no reason to work hard, to invent anything, or to improve anything. You just do what you are told, get your 'free' housing, get your 'free' food, and do what they say. If you have a certain quota to meet, you really have no real incentive to make this quota. You will get your 'fair' share whether you do it or not. We can see in China, at the local levels, you cannot believe any of their statistics because they just make it up to please their superior. If you tell me your motivation is that 'If you don't meet your quota, you will be jailed, beaten, or killed' you may be right, but that is just insane to use that as a justification. Again, that is just a sign you are a slave to the State.


The State is God and the religion is Statism. The belief that the state is the highest moral authority. In this view, the State can do no wrong and every decision is morally justified. This is no different from a Theocracy with a 'divine right' of ruling.

If you have a different view and want a market based economy, you will go to jail, as you threaten the State. You cannot exist outside of its paradigm. If you want to be communist in a free market economy, however, you can exist.

Do you think it is good that everyone is 'equal?' This sounds good at first... but are the lazy, less driven, less intelligent people 'equal' to someone who is a hard worker, driven, and intelligent? Do they both deserve the same things? Does calling them 'equal' benefit human society into the future?

Sure, they both deserve life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. But, they do not both deserve the same housing, wages, or respect. They will not contribute as much, and therefore, do not deserve the same things.

vaporizeislands

Con

As a Cuban I had a wonderful life in Cuba.

Everyone
has the right to health protection and care. The state guarantees this right by providing free medical and hospital care. Cuba has been highly regarded for its medical care and physician expertise. Following the 1959 Cuban Revolution, Fidel Castro and his newly established government made universal health care a top priority. Every Cuban is expected to make a visit to a general practioner every year to examine the patients lifestyle and review health conditions. Other services included community fitness programs for the elderly, localized polyclinics with other minor surgeries at a lower operation cost than major hospitals. Cuba has also the lowest rates of HIV/AIDS due to it's state of the art awareness programs.

Equality is such a wonderful practice. The United States should probably adopt this method as it's a good step in the right direction to moving a country from a dark-aged period and removing it's hypocritical and pointless constitution.
Under a communism people are treated equal regardless of education, financial stability, and so on, in the eyes of the government. Economic boundaries don’t separate or categorize people, a situation that eliminates crime and violence. Where do you see this in the United States? A crime-ridden nation with a complete lack of morality and support of prejudice.

Every citizen can keep an occupation.
The unemployment rate in America is ridiculous, people are looking to welfare as an easy option. In a communist system, people are entitled to have jobs. Because the government owns all the means of production, the government can provide jobs for at least a majority of the people. Everyone in a communist country is given enough work opportunities for them to live and survive. Every citizen, however, must do his or her part for the economy, to receive pay and incentives.

In communism, the government rules the economy so stability is out of the question. Every citizen is required to work in order to receive benefits, and those that don’t have corresponding sanctions. This creates an incentive to participate and to help in economic growth.

In communism, there are certain laws, rules and goals in allocating resources and responsibilities. If the citizens abide by these laws, this leads to a harmonious spirit of sharing with one goal. This consequently builds stronger social communities, and an even stronger economy.

As I states previously inn communist societies, everyone is created equal. This means that everyone can work hard equally and harmoniously without stepping on each other’s backs. All the work, responsibility, and all the rewards reaped are sharedshared equally among the citizens. If people have no sense of envy, jealousy or ambitions that counter the goals of the state, then a harmonious economic development can be maintained.

Efficient distribution of resources. In a communist society, the sense of cooperation allows for healthy communistic systems. This means that communist societies are very efficient at resource distribution even in localized areas. This is very important especially in times of need and in emergency situations.

This is very communism is extremely advantageous in the modern world.


Debate Round No. 2
zestog3

Pro

As a Cuban I had a wonderful life in Cuba.


I’m sure you glorified your time there in your mind. Kind of like fantasy story. You were probably well off in Cuba, as most of the ruling elite and well-connected are of European decent. Maybe you did have a good life.
But seeing how you moved away to get a job in the free market in a Western Economy, that doesn’t really help your argument.

Everyone has the right to health protection and care. The state guarantees this right by providing free medical and hospital care.

No, they don’t have the ‘right’ to health care. Just like you don’t have the ‘right’ to food, or water. You earn that and exchange for it. Nothing is free. Your ‘free’ health care is taken from the sweat and money from others.

Life in Cuba is good because of their lifestyle. Great weather, natural food, and plenty of exercise leads to long life and less health problems. You can see the same in warm, sunny European countries. If Cuba experienced the unhealthy fast food and climate here in the US, the system would bankrupt.


Equality is such a wonderful practice. The United States should probably adopt this method as it's a good step in the right direction to moving a country from a dark-aged period and removing it's hypocritical and pointless constitution. Under a communism people are treated equal regardless of education, financial stability, and so on, in the eyes of the government. Economic boundaries don’t separate or categorize people, a situation that eliminates crime and violence. Where do you see this in the United States? A crime-ridden nation with a complete lack of morality and support of prejudice.

Hypocritical constitution? If you said it has been ineffective in stopping our government to regard something more communist than the founders could ever image. But, the constitution guarantees certain rights and liberties. Communist countries enjoy none of those. People are treated equal: equally as poor. But some (the ruling class) are more equal than others.






Every citizen can keep an occupation. The unemployment rate in America is ridiculous, people are looking to welfare as an easy option. In a communist system, people are entitled to have jobs. Because the government owns all the means of production, the government can provide jobs for at least a majority of the people. Everyone in a communist country is given enough work opportunities for them to live and survive. Every citizen, however, must do his or her part for the economy, to receive pay and incentives.

How much do people get paid? Anything really? Or are they all poor? They are all poor, besides the ruling class who benefit off of the free slave/drone workers labor. His or her part….. to keep their sustenance lives together




In communism, the government rules the economy so stability is out of the question. Every citizen is required to work in order to receive benefits, and those that don’t have corresponding sanctions. This creates an incentive to participate and to help in economic growth.

I rather not be a slave to the government and be forced to work for them. How much of your income do you keep that you produce? If none at all or very little, that doesn’t sound so different from a slave. Slaves also couldn’t bear arms.





In communism, there are certain laws, rules and goals in allocating resources and responsibilities. If the citizens abide by these laws, this leads to a harmonious spirit of sharing with one goal. This consequently builds stronger social communities, and an even stronger economy.

Why is Cuba moving away from communist and towards a freer market? Why when the Castro brother die will Cuba move even more so, like China did?





As I states previously inn communist societies, everyone is created equal. This means that everyone can work hard equally and harmoniously without stepping on each other’s backs. All the work, responsibility, and all the rewards reaped are sharedshared equally among the citizens. If people have no sense of envy, jealousy or ambitions that counter the goals of the state, then a harmonious economic development can be maintained.

Some are more equal than others.


Efficient distribution of resources. In a communist society, the sense of cooperation allows for healthy communistic systems. This means that communist societies are very efficient at resource distribution even in localized areas. This is very important especially in times of need and in emergency situations.

Why are all communist countries becoming more capitalist? Why did all communist countries fail? Why is the US, which is becoming very communist/socialist/fascist, failing economically? Force and coercion doesn’t work.

vaporizeislands

Con

I am now going to explain why you are horrifically wrong.

Communism is the WORST form of governance.

So how come it has lasted as long as it has in a lot of countries? You're not reviewing how long communism has had a place in the modern world. Obvious the pro in this situation cannot comprehend how many people have been saved by communism. I wasn't in the ruling class at all, my father is Irish and my mother is Argentine and they have been workers all their lives. Ask yourself why did they immigrate in the first place?

Communism is an ideology where the workers do not have a say in anything. You may think you do, but the rulers decide every aspect of any decision and you have no say in what they are.

This is so far from the truth, you're making these comments based on the fact that you have never actually lived in a communist state. I, as a worker had quite a sufficient say in which occupation I undertook and voiced an opinion on how things were being operated. The comment could actually be used to refer to capitalism. You're telling me the big boss right at the top will listen to your opinion? I really don't think so.

Communism means you are insignificant. You are nothing but a pawn for the State to use in any way it wants. You are basically an ant serving the Queen (the State). You are a mindless drone who must do the bidding of the State.

Capitalism is exactly the same my love. Big corporations have exactly the same policy. Communism favors the worker over the boss. Again, your opinion really isn't valid due to your sources, I'm sure.

You will live in poverty. There is no reason to work hard, to invent anything, or to improve anything.

How can you even justify such a term when communism won the space race and has provided the world with various technologies. China, comes to mind. In addition to that I lived in the same style of housing as I do now in New York.

The State is God and the religion is Statism.
"Religion is the opium of the people" - Karl Marx

If you have a different view and want a market based economy, you will go to jail, as you threaten the State. You cannot exist outside of its paradigm. If you want to be communist in a free market economy, however, you can exist.

The United States has such a poor excuse for freedom of speech. If you present such a certain view which doesn't match or correlate the view of the government you are monitored. Watergate.

Do you think it is good that everyone is 'equal?' This sounds good at first... but are the lazy, less driven, less intelligent people 'equal' to someone who is a hard worker, driven, and intelligent? Do they both deserve the same things? Does calling them 'equal' benefit human society into the future?

Yes, I do. As opposed to the obvious sexism, racism and homophobia in a capitalist society, yes indeed I do.



Debate Round No. 3
zestog3

Pro

zestog3 forfeited this round.
vaporizeislands

Con

vaporizeislands forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Cheetah 3 years ago
Cheetah
Its a shame pro forfeited, he could easily win.
Posted by simpleman 3 years ago
simpleman
Thus far, in the last couple millenia, the most benificent government yet seen of all was that of the Christians in the first and second centuries, in which each contributed to the welfare of the whole. But, unlike communism, which makes such an issue enforced, theirs was by free will to do so.
Please do not take my words to demonize your position con, for I truly mean my discourse in the light of constructive criticism and illustration.
Posted by simpleman 3 years ago
simpleman
I agree with Pro on this one. In order for a government to be truly effective towards effecting benefit toward the common man within the society of which he is a part, there must be allowed both the freedom and responsibility of choice for one's own actions beyond the mandate of the federal government. In any form of government where there is no vision to serve the people, but rather a vision for the people to labor under only to the extent that it benefits the government, abuses are sure to be found at the hands of those who are overseers thereof.
What made the United States successful in it's primacy up to it's apex in the late 19th to mid 20th century is that men were allowed such freedoms as to allow for both success or failure. It is only under such a system as our nation then enjoyed that our ingenuity was was inspired. The abuse of our present government has been the effect of men who do not wish men free, but rather wish men to be servants of state.
What needs to be understood of such things as universal programs is that population plays a vastly important role in determining whether such things are helpful or else detrimental. Cuba had a limited enough size that the GDP was not so grossly affected by such a thing as universal healthcare, but we did have the Cuban Refugee Crisis in the early 1980s, did we not? The U.S. cannot birth such a thing with a population of over 330 million because of the enormity of the cost, not only on the federal side, which will be borne through excessive taxation to an already overburdened populace thanks to weak immigration policies and horrible oversight of the medical practice, especially as regards pharmaceuticals. But there also are horribly deleterious ramifications as regards the market system which is the life blood of a nation.
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