The Instigator
mzhao8
Con (against)
Losing
2 Points
The Contender
Chimera
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points

Communism works if applied correctly

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Chimera
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/14/2014 Category: Economics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 501 times Debate No: 52488
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

mzhao8

Con

Communism will never work in a practical sense. Sure, idealistically communism would work perfectly right? However, due to the constraints that human nature puts us in, whether it be selfishness, greed, etc., communism (regardless of the type) will never work.
Chimera

Pro

I accept this challenge, and thank my opponent for this debate.

'Communism will never work in a practical sense. Sure, idealistically communism would work perfectly right? However, due to the constraints that human nature puts us in, whether it be selfishness, greed, etc., communism (regardless of the type) will never work'

You are assuming that human nature itself is something that is static, that it never changes. The problem with that thinking is, human nature, and humans themselves, are the epitomy of dynamicism. We evolve, adapt, overcome, whatever word pleases you. The fact of the matter is, we change.

A communist society may not appear in the next day, in the next month, in the next year, the next decade, or even the next century. However, one may appear after capitalism has collapsed.

Marx himself stated that communism is primarily meant to be a system that is used in a post-capitalist society, one where the nature of humans has changed, on a global scale, towards a system that benefits both the individual and the collective.

"The hate of man will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish"

-Charlie Chaplin [1]

Sources:

1- http://www.brainyquote.com...
Debate Round No. 1
mzhao8

Con

I never assumed human nature was static. Obviously human nature shifts here and there. We do adapt to our situations. However, human nature has constraints. There's a limit to how much nature will bend. (That's the definition of 'constraint)

What you fail to realize is that your so called "communist society" has already been tried and tested. Hunter and gatherer societies, as I am sure you are familiar with, was prevalent from the beginnings of human history. People communally shared resources. People collectively reaped from the earth. Yet the individual and the collective never saw eye to eye. Humans have their own goals, their own incentives. It makes us unique. We inherently value the freedom to pursue our own dreams.

With so many personal incentives, it's d*mn impossible for a "true communistic society" to ever occur.

If you want a communistic society, you have to collectivize the nature of every human soul. Is that really liberty?
Chimera

Pro

'I never assumed human nature was static. Obviously human nature shifts here and there. We do adapt to our situations. However, human nature has constraints. There's a limit to how much nature will bend. (That's the definition of 'constraint)'

Yet, you have failed to show what exactly this 'restraint' is. If we can go from being anarchistic, to tribes, to empires, to feudal lordship, to republicanism, to representative democracy, all in the course of only 7000-10000 years, when we have been alive for hundreds of thousands of years. Then I really don't see how we are restrained, the only possible restraints are time and ignorance, both of which can be overcome with patience and logic.

'What you fail to realize is that your so called "communist society" has already been tried and tested. Hunter and gatherer societies, as I am sure you are familiar with, was prevalent from the beginnings of human history. People communally shared resources. People collectively reaped from the earth. Yet the individual and the collective never saw eye to eye. Humans have their own goals, their own incentives. It makes us unique. We inherently value the freedom to pursue our own dreams.'

Here, you are assuming that I want a paleolithic system of socio-economics, when I have yet to state my advocation for one. Hunter-gatherer societies are far different from what I advocate for, which is itself industrial and not primitive and violent, and where abundance does not exist.

Also, what you fail to realize is that you believe that communism would be forced upon people, and that they would be forced to contribute to the collective. There are three things you fail to realize that show your argument to be false.

1. If an individual wishes to not be part of a collective, or an organization, they do not need to be part of it. This is system is completely voluntary, you will not be forced to work for the collective, since you are not exactly needed, there is a reserve army of labor that can take your place.

2. If an individual contributes towards the betterment of the collective, they are not only proving their morality and credibility as a human being, but they are benefiting themselves, their friends, their children, and their children's children. It would be illogical not to contribute to society in a communist society.

3. You assume that people would not be able to follow their dreams in a communist society. You cannot use hunter-gatherers to attempt to justify this assumption because back in those times, we didn't have factories that produced the means of our survival, we had to kill, rape, and pillage to get our necessities. However, I digress. If anything people would be able to follow their dreams more than they are able to than in todays society, since money, class, and the state won't obstruct their pathway to ambition, due to their abolition.

'With so many personal incentives, it's d*mn impossible for a "true communistic society" to ever occur.'

The feudalists said that democracy and republicanism were impossible.

They are rolling in their graves right now.

Debate Round No. 2
mzhao8

Con

mzhao8 forfeited this round.
Chimera

Pro

I hope my opponent comes back in the final round.
Debate Round No. 3
mzhao8

Con

mzhao8 forfeited this round.
Chimera

Pro

My opponent has forfeited the debate, vote Pro.
Debate Round No. 4
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by SNP1 2 years ago
SNP1
mzhao8ChimeraTied
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Total points awarded:24 
Reasons for voting decision: Con forfeited and used a source (pro had none). Pro had the better arguments.