The Instigator
Xie-Xijivuli
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
pewpewpew
Pro (for)
Winning
26 Points

Communism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/20/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 5,262 times Debate No: 7911
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (6)

 

Xie-Xijivuli

Con

Thanks to pewpewpew for accepting the debate.

Communism has two main flaws:

1) -- The lack of incentive.

If you are paid the same no matter what, what is the incentive to work? Why bother to move up the chain or be productive? The system of communism treats those who work hard and those who don't give a flip equally, which as history has shown, does not work.

2) -- Too much government power.

All properties and banks are owned by the government. WHat is the government is corrupt? They control the whole country, and you can see where things would head from there.

I'd like for my opponent to answer these questions:
-Do you think communism squashes personal freedoms? Why or why not?

-What are good things about communism? The bad?

Thanks!
pewpewpew

Pro

*-Do you think communism squashes personal freedoms? Why or why not?

-What are good things about communism? The bad?*

As for your first question, Communism does not deter personal freedoms as Communism allow for all members of society to participate in society. The main thing being able to participate democratically. With this I feel that traditional unmodified Communism does not squash the personal feelings of citizens who live under its rule. I would say different about modified Communism (Soviet Union, China).

Before I get to your second question I would like to clear up that about one of your statements:

*1) -- The lack of incentive.

If you are paid the same no matter what, what is the incentive to work? Why bother to move up the chain or be productive? The system of communism treats those who work hard and those who don't give a flip equally, which as history has shown, does not work.*

From: "The Dictionary of Misinformation"
The said above is just a widespread assumption about the form of government in which everybody thinks that they are supposed to get the same income as everyone else. In fact there is nothing in any of Marxist-Leninist theory that points out or implies the statement of "Equal payment for everybody".

Karl Marx- "From each according to his abilities, to each according to there needs."

It basically depends on how needs is defined, but in any case it does not state "To all the same..."
The saying came on about by George Bernard Shaw in the book:

"The Intelligent Woman's Guide to Socialism and Communism"

*2) -- Too much government power.

All properties and banks are owned by the government. WHat is the government is corrupt? They control the whole country, and you can see where things would head from there.*

That depends on what kind of people the government consists of, if the government consist of arrogant, misunderstanding people who abusive their powers then of course we all know what will happen from there. People who can be trusted and shown so in the past need to be picked for this.

-Thanks for inviting me for this BTW.
Debate Round No. 1
Xie-Xijivuli

Con

====
As for your first question, Communism does not deter personal freedoms as Communism allow for all members of society to participate in society. The main thing being able to participate democratically.
====

I severely doubt that you have lived in Soviet Russia or China.

FREE: civil liberty, as opposed to subjection to an arbitrary or despotic government.

In the People's Republic of China, you are not allowed to learn of Christianity until you are sixteen. According to http://www.cpjustice.org...:

More than 100 leaders of the China Gospel Fellowship were arrested on June 11 [2004] while on a retreat near the city of Wuhan in Hubei province, according to the China Aid Association, headquartered near Philadelphia. The arrests were part of the Chinese government's attempt to clamp down on unauthorized house church gatherings.

Religious gatherings are not the only illegitimate meetings. Students meeting privately in 2000 to discuss China's political future were reported by one among them to the Ministry of State Security. Today, four of those students are in prison. Philip P. Pan, writing in the Washington Post (4/23/04), says that "15 years after the Tiananmen Square massacre and 13 years since the fall of the Soviet Union, the Chinese Communist Party is engaged in the largest and perhaps most successful experiment in authoritarianism in the world."
-
Is this freedom? NO! Freedom to gather and profess a faith is illegal.

Here are some 80 journalists in jail for speaking out against the government:

http://www.wan-press.org...

The freedom to vote is one of few 'freedoms' experienced in communism throughout our history.
_______________________________________________________

====
From: "The Dictionary of Misinformation"
The said above is just a widespread assumption about the form of government in which everybody thinks that they are supposed to get the same income as everyone else. In fact there is nothing in any of Marxist-Leninist theory that points out or implies the statement of "Equal payment for everybody".
====

I am not at all talking about the Marx-Lenin ideology; I am talking about our historical examples of communism.. I hope you relize that Lenin ruled Soviet Russia with a tighter grip than Mao. No religion. No speech. No freedom.

Communism has people payed the same in its ideologies, especially in the USSR. The excpetion is China, where the adapted a FREE DEMOCRATIC MARKET ECONOMY.

_________________________

====
That depends on what kind of people the government consists of, if the government consist of arrogant, misunderstanding people who abusive their powers then of course we all know what will happen from there. People who can be trusted and shown so in the past need to be picked for this.
====

Again, let us look ath history. Cuba. Russia. China. Vietnam. North Korea. All countries with populations over 10,000 should not use communism. It can only work for little villages.

All communist governments have corruption. I'd like to be named one in the past 1,000 years that did not. IF any few people have that much power, it does not end prettily/
pewpewpew

Pro

Off course both China and USSR were opposed to religion, now I really only support communism due to the fact that it helps poor countries. After a country gets to the point where they are able to support themselves they should then they should slowly merge into socialism. Now the fact that communism says religion is illegal relives me in one way. No violence could occur. Look at Iraq, Ireland and America. In Iraq two separate forms of Islam has caused bitter armed conflict for the more than 1,000 years. Ireland is the same story with armed conflict from the Protestants and the Roman Catholics. Then there is America with the same story as Ireland, just without so much bitter armed conflict. The Ku Klux Klan shows acts of violence to Jews and Catholics. So maybe without religion around we would have less acts like this in the communist society. Of course after the merging to socialism then freedom of religion should be put back into act.
Debate Round No. 2
Xie-Xijivuli

Con

Xie-Xijivuli forfeited this round.
pewpewpew

Pro

Well that sucks :*starts twiddling thumbs to escape the boredom*
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Kefka 7 years ago
Kefka
When people use USSR and People's Republic of China as refutations to communism, it kind of makes me laugh. They assume that since demagogues, who rose in power because of their ability to speak, controlled people so strictly (fascism), and since they called themselves 'communists', that of course, this is what communism is. Wrong. Yes, observing the past to prevent the repetition of it, is important. Though using it as a last stand crutch against an entire ideology, is a little insulting. Second off, where do people get this misconception about government controlling everything in a communistic society? 'Government', in terms of an exclusive, overshadowing body that has direct control on the lives of its citizens, is withered away because people learned, from looking at the past, that governments, no matter how seemingly fair, are the constant antagonist, for any type of 'fight for freedom'. They may evolve over time, for better or for worse, but they still have an underlying flaw: Control.
Posted by PervRat 7 years ago
PervRat
Oi vei ... the motivation to do something if everyone is paid the same, is to do something you love instead of being controlled by a boss who takes $10,000 or more for every $1 he gives you, then gripes about having to fund the social programs to take care of the things he refuses to pay you to be able to afford for yourself.
Posted by pewpewpew 7 years ago
pewpewpew
I prefer socialism as well. Although Communism can be used for situations when all hope is lost.
Posted by I-am-a-panda 7 years ago
I-am-a-panda
Marxism is the foundation of communism and socialism, but is not sustainable. Leninism is sustainable, and Stalinism, though brutal, is also sustainable. I personally prefer Socialism which allows business to occur as well.
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