The Instigator
darkwolf
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
frankfurter50
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points

Communism

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
frankfurter50
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/7/2018 Category: Economics
Updated: 2 weeks ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 194 times Debate No: 113619
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (2)

 

darkwolf

Con

Ok, so I tried to do this a few times, but only trolls would come to the debate, and since I know you at least have an idea of the topic I figured you's be the best choice for the debate.
frankfurter50

Pro

Communism is a poorly misunderstood topic, but it's secretly genius. It simply guarantees absolute equality for everybody. In many ways, it's a better system than capitalism. It has been given a bad name by ignorant people who can't accept progress. When implemented correctly, it can be beneficial to everybody. There's nothing wrong with it.
Debate Round No. 1
darkwolf

Con

True Communism has never been achieved because the people that take power through it, Stalin, Mao, all of these people miss managed their countries. But it will never be achieved because sooner or later people will become greedy (like what we see today in most modern socialist countries, Examples of people using the system to take complete power, Maduro, and Mugabi) It also removes incentive, if Jake who works overtime everyday, is paid the same as paul who leaves the first chance he gets and hardly works. People will only work if they are rewarded for any work, or extra work they preform.
frankfurter50

Pro

Communism has never been properly handled. Communism has been misinterpreted by those leaders you mentioned. Communism is nothing more than a sensible economic system. It has nothing to do with authoritarianism. A country can be Democratic and Communist at the same time. True Communism, the sort of which I am speaking, simply involves the complete removal of currency and class structure. Communist China and Communist Russia cannot be defined as Communist. Stalin was not a communist. Nor was Mao. Karl Marx was a true Communist. To gain more knowledge into the subject, I suggest you read the Communist Manifesto. It's a very clearly cut-out rulebook.

People do not have to become greedy. Greed is a choice. To prevent greed in a Communist country, greed can be made illegal, or punished in some way. You say that greed is a universal constant. It does not have to be. We can advance past it. Capitalism is just as bad. It promotes greed. Better to have a system that discourages greed than to have one that encourages it. When you remove your misconceptions, Communism is really a very practical system with many advantages over Capitalism.

I have no idea what you mean when you say that Communism removes incentive. It does not remove incentive. If Jake works overtime, he'll get more than Paul. He'll get paid in foodstuffs and products, though, not money. That's the only real difference.
Debate Round No. 2
darkwolf

Con

First of all I have read the communist manifesto, what I was saying that power hungry people are drawn to the system.
And you would make a nautural human trait illegal? Greed is very common then comes the problem of how you would enforce it, so Bill took 2 cookies in the workout when he was supposed to have 1, time to exile him! And 1 trait of communism at least how people today promote it is 1 universal income meaning no extar pay for exceling in work, and pay docking for those that skip out on work. Communism requires a very special breed of person, 1 which isn't numerous enough for a society to function with them. And once again communism requires a lot of perfect cercumstances, most of which won't last long enough to make the society function in the long time.
frankfurter50

Pro

You have clearly not read the Communist Manifesto. If you had read the Communist Manifesto, you would know that Communism is, at heart, a better system than Capitalism.

You could actually make human traits illegal. All laws are set in place to keep detestable behavior in check. Rape is illegal, for instance, to curb unbridled lust. In a Communist country, greed could simply be punished more strongly. Let's say Bill took 2 cookies instead of one. That's not a very bad crime. His punishment would fit his crime, he wouldn't get exiled, by any means. He'd just get kicked out of the workout, or maybe he'd have to do a few more papers later on or something like that. Punishments don't have to be severe. They just have to enforce morals. if a person breaks into the Communal kitchen and empties the whole thing out, they might get exiled. Communism is a basic exercise in teamwork. It's the most just, equal system there is. Real Communism, anyway. Not Fake Communism.

Like I said, one of the key features of Communism is that a person gets paid according to how well they work. That's one of the features, right there. If a guy succeeds in work, he's gonna get a whole truck full of toilet paper and snacks. If a guy is lazy, he doesn't get any rations. Communism awards each worker according to how hard they work. Capitalism doesn't do that, actually. Rich people do very little work. Poor people do all the work. Poor people, thus, deserve more. Communism gives more things to the proletariat and gives less things to the Bourgeois. Those who skip out of work don't get paid. Nobody gets paid. There's no money in Communism. You're pretty ignorant, you know that?

I think that there are about 2,000 or so people who are generous and fans of Communism. If those people were given some land and allowed to found a fully Communist country, they'd be fine. because they all believe in Communism. You have to believe in Communism for it to work. Communism does require a lot of perfect circumstances. But not too many. If all those circumstances are met, then the result will be a literal Heaven on Earth.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by frankfurter50 4 days ago
frankfurter50
You enjoy suffering?
Posted by asta 4 days ago
asta
Capitalism does not promote greed; it promotes ambition.

You said the poor people work harder then the rich people. This is not true. The rich people probably spend 16-18 hours a day working on hard things like how to innovate. The work of poor people is more nominal on an individual scale, like managing a cash register.

People say you have to work hard to succeed. It's not about work, it's about productiveness to society. If you work very hard on planning a murder, society won't reward you for your hard work. They will punish you for your negative contribution to society.

However, if you only spend 10 minutes working on a very cool game, then that game is called Flappy Bird and people will reward you by downloading the game and you would get ad money as a reward for your contribution to society. The game maker benefited the costumers -> The costumers tolerated the ads -> The ad companies paid the game maker.

Similarally, Bill Gates is paid more then his cashier because Bill Gates contributes much more to society then one individual cashier.
Posted by frankfurter50 1 week ago
frankfurter50
There is no intrinsically evil philosophy in it. It is the most anti-greed and pro-equality political system there is. The ONLY reason it failed was because the people who ran it sucked. That's it, right there.
Posted by MarkK.1068 1 week ago
MarkK.1068
Also, for Pro to say communism is an economic system rather than an authoritarian one.?.? Who decides who gets what? That's a perfect example of authoritarianism!!
Posted by MarkK.1068 1 week ago
MarkK.1068
Communism has always and will always fail. It's not the evil people running it. It's the intrinsically evil philosophy that causes it to fail. To take from one who earned and give it to someone who didn't - this is stealing! And any society that's fundamentally built on something intrinsically wrong can't survive. And there'll always be a ruling class whose wealthy and corrupt.
Posted by frankfurter50 2 weeks ago
frankfurter50
Ah, yes, somebody knows their berries.
Posted by darkwolf 2 weeks ago
darkwolf
gg let's do this again sometime
Posted by frankfurter50 2 weeks ago
frankfurter50
That one vote is prejudiced! Very, very prejudiced!
Posted by frankfurter50 2 weeks ago
frankfurter50
They're notoriously bad at it.
Posted by darkwolf 2 weeks ago
darkwolf
Be careful they can camouflage
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by VelCrow 2 weeks ago
VelCrow
darkwolffrankfurter50Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro : Better to punish greed than promote greed. Con : You cant punish greed. It is a natural human trait. Pro : We already punish excessive human traits (rape) Ideally, the last round should only be used to summarize existing points and not introduce new arguments. Sadly, Con did not specify format of this debate. Thus he was not able to respond nor address this point. Point to Pro.
Vote Placed by Leaning 2 weeks ago
Leaning
darkwolffrankfurter50Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Why each of you just say you have read the Manifesto? If you had pulled a section from it and held it up as proof of your argument and how it applied as well as linked it, you would have made points and justified your statements. Punishing human desire is not something special to communism or democracy, it is simply a part of most stable governments and societies. Neither of you built any justification for Stalin and Mao being communists or not, you both pretty much just said "Is too. and Is not." Same with motivation. Neither of you said why money or living products would be better. Also I don't think 2,000 people is much of a country. I found Con more convincing, but that might be due to my own prejudice rather than good argument, so tie. If you disagree with my vote let me know, why and how, I'll try to do better next time.