The Instigator
vaporizeislands
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
Shader609
Con (against)
Losing
4 Points

Communists have a place in the United States.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
vaporizeislands
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/19/2013 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,245 times Debate No: 42664
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (22)
Votes (2)

 

vaporizeislands

Pro

Here is the challenge.

Full Resolution

Communists have a place in American society.

BoP is shared - pro has to prove that communism has a place, while con has to prove that communism has no place


Rules

1. The first round is for acceptance.
2. A forfeit or concession is not allowed.
3. No semantics, trolling, or lawyering.
4. All arguments and sources must be visible inside this debate.
5. Debate resolution, definitions, rules, and structure cannot be changed without asking in the comments before you post your round 1 argument.

Debate resolution, definitions, rules, and structure cannot be changed in the middle of the debate.

Debate Structure


Round 1: Acceptance
Round 2: Presenting all arguments (no rebuttals by con)
Round 3: Refutation of opponent's arguments (no new arguments)
Round 4: Defending your original arguments and conclusion (no new arguments)
Shader609

Con

I here by accept your debate. Good luck to you. But i strongly disagree with your take on the relationship between the United States & Communism.
Debate Round No. 1
vaporizeislands

Pro

As a Cuban living in the United States people have always made the assumption that I am anti-castro or anti-communist this is not the case. I only relocated to America to work in a prestigious cocktail bar, study at NYU and work for the CPUSA (communist party USA).

I do believe even as a law-abiding citizen it is still very taboo to be a communist in such a ridiculously capitalist country.

The Communist Party USA (CPUSA) is a Marxist-Leninist political party in the United States,[2] and is the largest communist party in the country. Established in 1919, it has a long, complex history that is closely related to the histories of similar communist parties worldwide and the U.S. labor movement.

For the first half of the 20th century, the Communist Party was a highly influential force in various struggles for democratic rights. It played a prominent role in the U.S. labor movement from the 1920s through the 1940s, having a major hand in founding most of the country's first industrial unions (which would later use the McCarran Internal Security Act to expel their Communist members) while also becoming known for opposing racism and fighting for integration in workplaces and communities during the height of the Jim Crow period of U.S. racial segregation. Historian Ellen Schrecker concludes that decades of recent scholarship[3] offer "a more nuanced portrayal of the party as both a Stalinist sect tied to a vicious regime and the most dynamic organization within the American Left during the 1930s and '40s".[4]

By August 1919, only months after its founding, the Communist Party claimed 50,000 to 60,000 members. Members also included anarchists and other radical leftists. In contrast, the more moderate Socialist Party of America had 40,000 members. The sections of the Communist Party'sInternational Workers Order meanwhile organized for communism around linguistic and ethnic lines, providing mutual aid and tailored cultural activities to an IWO membership that peaked at 200,000 at its height.[5]

But the Communist Party's early labor and organizing successes did not last. As the decades progressed, the combined effects of the second Red Scare, McCarthyism, Nikita Khrushchev's 1956 Secret Speech denouncing the previous decades of Joseph Stalin's rule, and the adversities of the continued Cold War mentality, steadily weakened the Party's internal structure and confidence. The Party's membership in the Comintern and its close adherence to the political positions of the Soviet Union enabled anti-communist critics to constantly present the party as not only a threatening, subversive domestic entity, but also as a "foreign" agent fundamentally alien to the "American way of life". Internal and external crises swirled together, to the point where members who did not end up in prison for party activities tended either to disappear quietly from its ranks or to adopt more moderate political positions at odds with the Communists' party line. By 1957, membership had dwindled to less than 10,000, of whom some 1,500 were informants for the FBI.[6]

The party attempted to recover with its opposition to the Vietnam War during the Civil rights movement in the 1960s, but its continued uncritical support for an increasingly stultified and militaristic Soviet Union increasingly alienated them from the rest of the U.S. left, who saw this supportive position as outdated and even dangerous. At the same time, the party's ageing membership demographics and noticeably hollow calls for "peaceful coexistence" failed to speak to a new Left in the United States.

With the rise of Mikhail Gorbachev and his effort to radically alter the Soviet economic and political system from the mid-1980s, the Communist Party finally became estranged from the leadership of the Soviet Union itself. In 1989, the Communist Party of the Soviet Union cut off major funding to the CPUSA due to its opposition to glasnost and perestroika. With the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, the party held its convention and attempted to resolve the issue of whether the Party should reject Marxism-Leninism. The majority reasserted the party's now purely Marxist outlook, prompting a minority faction which urged social democrats to exit the now reduced party. The party has since adopted Marxism-Leninism within its program.[2]

The Communist Party USA is based in New York City. For decades, its West Coast newspaper was the People's World, and its East Coast newspaper wasThe Daily World.[7] The two newspapers merged in 1986 into the People's Weekly World. The PWW has since become an online only publication, calledPeople's World. The party's former theoretical journal, Political Affairs Magazine, is now also published exclusively online, but the party still maintainsInternational Publishers as its publishing house. In June 2014, the Party will be holding its 30th National Convention in Chicago.

It is my conclusion that the liberal minded people of the United States yearn for communism and the equality this country so desperately needs.

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org...;

Shader609

Con

Let me start by saying that I in no way have a problem with Communist. I do not discriminate against Communism. Communism is just everything I personally do not believe in. Communism is both morale and economically wrong for America. America does not have a place for Communist. Here is Why.

A. United States right now is in a recession. With the recession in the United States today, people will be even less likely to support Communism. Communism is "a way of organizing a society in which the government owns the things that are used to make and transport products (such as land, oil, factories, ships, etc.) and there is no privately owned property".
http://www.merriam-webster.com... With the United States being unstable both economically and politically, communist will never exist. Communist works in nations such as Cuba, Russia, and China because the people either believed in the government or they just imply rose to power. In America where we have a FREE election, communist and totalitarian government will never exist. America is known as the land of the free and home of the brave. By definition, Communism is basically when the government owns everything and the people have zero ownership of anything.

B. United States was founded on the core believes of life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness. Communism goes against everything United States people believe in. How do you think the Cold War began? The Cold War began because of the disagreements between nationalism and Communism. The Cold War lasted for decades. You could prove that the Cold War still is somewhat is existence today in Korea. There is a reason why America does not get along with nations such as Cuba, Russia, and China. We do not get along with these nations because of the differences in politically and economic systems. If Communism ever was in America, it would be a slap in the face to the people who died for America in the Cold War; as well in any other war America has fought in. Our military fights for us everyday. Do you know why they fight for us everyday? They fight for us everyday so we can still have the freedoms that come with living in America. Communism goes against everything that America stood for. Capitalism is how our nation began. People from all 196 nations in the world travel to America because of the freedoms that we have. Our government system, our core believes, and how America began is the epitome of why Communist will never rise in America. Here are a few documents that you should be aware of.
http://www.archives.gov... United States Constitution and Bills of Rights
http://capitalism.org... Capitalism- America's economic systems
With all these reasons and documents listed above, Communist will never rise in America.
Debate Round No. 2
vaporizeislands

Pro

Cons 'A' point.

Firstly, there is nothing in communism which says you cannot have a democracy in fact communism duly promotes communism because of it's admiration of society and the freedom for the common man to have a choice in everything he does. Totalitarianism doesn't exists in all communist states it features in a rare few this is also the case for capitalism - Nazi Germany was capitalist to a degree as is Iran and Syria yet we have all witnessed the evils that is practiced in such nations.

Cons 'B' point.

Yes perhaps it was founded on such a philosophy but has it been practice effectively? I don't believe so. African-Americans and other nationalities didn't have an equal right to anything throughout the United States during the Jim Crow period of 1876-1965. Is that liberty or the pursuit of happiness? The 'American Dream' is dead. Nationalism? The United States is one of the most nationalist countries in existence. I have as many rights in America as I do in Cuba. People sign up for the military knowing the consequences that may be trusted upon them unexpectedly, that's life.

Your constitution was founded and created by a Brit. Imperialism is a very unattractive trait.
Shader609

Con

Let me start off by saying that if you do not like our government, love to another country. Your story is proving how Communist will never succeed in America. If Nationalist does not belong in America, how do you believe America became so popular? http://www.americanprogress.org...
C. Immigration rates have sky rocketed for the past fifty years. Because of the nationalist system. As I read your original position, I realized something. Your argument is completely irrelevant. The argument you presented has nothing to do with the question at hand. As far as I can tell, your argument is a BIOGRAPHY about the Communist Party in USA. It does not answer the question why Communist has in place in America. Copying and pasting an biography off Wikipedia on Communism Party in America has nothing to do with the debate at hand.

D. Once again, the body of your argument has nothing to do with your conclusion. The conclusion has nothing to do with the argument. Quote: It is my conclusion that the liberal minded people of the United States yearn for communism and the equality this country so desperately needs." If America has lasted 300 plus years without communism,why would liberal minded people such as myself yearn for Communist? According to your conclusion, you suggest that America does not have equality. Equality has always existed in America. It has since the colonists revolted against the British Government. Women Rights, African Americans, Immigration. All Americans today have equal rights. The right to a fair trial, right to own property. If this is not equality, I do not know what equality is.
Debate Round No. 3
vaporizeislands

Pro

Right, your grammatical skill is atrocious.

So I will start by saying that I have as much of a right as anyone else to remain in this country. You are slightly contradicting yourself in terms of telling me to "move somewhere else..." and then telling me this country is built on liberty.

You've also spent have this argument debating my tactics. That's not a brilliant style for you either.

You are not liberal sir, not in the slightest you are so nationalist and right-wing that it is somewhat hard to believe that you have had the audacity to stay your "liberalness".

Oh, so you're telling me slaves had equal rights to whites?

Woman were able to vote were they?

Homosexuality was legal was it?
Shader609

Con

E.Number One, I never said you did not have rights. I have been saying this entire argument that people have the same rights as each other. If anything, your arguments are both contradicting and hypocritical. You cannot say that people have not had equality in America and than say that you have EQUAL rights as anybody else in America. Check your grammar before you be critical of my grammar. Once again, you are trying to avoid the true topic of this debate. The debate is about Communism not whether you believe we have equal rights. I will say once again that America was founded of equality and liberty.

F. The ironic part of this entire debate is that you attempt to sound smart when your actual arguments make no sense. The last time I checked, copying and pasting biographies about Communism Party is not an argument. It is plagiarism. At no point, you acknowledged that you did not write your argument. Who are you to tell me what I believe and do not believe in? I know what I believe in. Just because I do not agree with you, it does not make me wrong or any less intelligent.
Debate Round No. 4
vaporizeislands

Pro

I repeat the questions you failed to answer.

Slaves had equal rights to whites?

Woman were able to vote were they?

Homosexuality was legal was it?

Shader609

Con

Your argument is invalid. I have nothing else to say.
Debate Round No. 5
22 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by JacobAnderson 3 years ago
JacobAnderson
Why the attack on grammar when you do not have flawless grammar yourself? Even in your bio, which I find funny, you made at least two grammar errors and went on to state that you should be courteous to the language you speak. But an insult to grammar can only be deducted to mean that no other valid points had the capability of being brought up.
Other than that, the debate was okay and interesting but I do not know which side to vote on because of conducts and points made.
Posted by ironmaiden 3 years ago
ironmaiden
Oh, I'm sure you're a nice person. It's your political views that are askew. I don't know enough about Cuba to have an opinion on it. My apologies for getting hot-headed there. I simply hate it when people live in the US and then criticize American values. If you don't like it, get out, it's as simple as that.

And no, I learned that Google Translate isn't worth sh*t a long time ago. As I said before, I am not fluent in Spanish.
Posted by vaporizeislands 3 years ago
vaporizeislands
So you dislike me as individual simply because I don't agree with America and see it as an evil country JUST as you see Cuba?

Don't use Google Translate doll, it doesn't work.
Posted by ironmaiden 3 years ago
ironmaiden
*sigh* I guess I'll give it a rest. I would debate her, but it's pointless. She's debating it right now anyways.

My point is that she's in the US for opportunity and freedom, yet she criticizes it. Hypocritical. If she wasn't the anti-American ahole she is, I wouldn't be so rude. I have a huge problem with those people.
Posted by ironmaiden 3 years ago
ironmaiden
Sorry, STALIN, I am trying to get your follower to shut their mouth. Just go to "post" a comment and go to where it says "Email me when..."

As for vaporize, Eso est" bien con m", eso ser"a una menos comunista en el US.
Posted by Shader609 3 years ago
Shader609
I cannot speak Spanish fluently which I am trying to learn but I respect people who are can speak two. I believe she said something about The United States having liberties and she came here for a job. Even though I dont agree with her about Communism, it is not right being racist or discriminating. Back off dude.
Posted by Stirling 3 years ago
Stirling
Ironmaiden is there a point to you being rude to her? If you have an issue with her views go ahead and challenge her to a debate. I would love to see it
Posted by vaporizeislands 3 years ago
vaporizeislands
Prefiero tiro a mi hija en la cabeza que incluso se acerque a ti, cerdo.
Posted by STALIN 3 years ago
STALIN
Stop posting these comments. I keep getting these dumb emails.
Posted by ironmaiden 3 years ago
ironmaiden
Well, duh, you're Cuban, of course your English isn't perfect. So don't criticize other people for their grammar when you too do the same fuckin thing. As far as my Spanish, I am not fluent, but here is a shot:

Eres un imb"cil anti-estadounidense hip"crita que no tiene lugar en los Estados Unidos. Pruebe todo lo que quieras para asaltar los valores estadounidenses. Va a solo fracasar. Vete a casa.

...Oh, y bese mi culo.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by DudeStop 3 years ago
DudeStop
vaporizeislandsShader609Tied
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Total points awarded:32 
Reasons for voting decision: Reasons for voting decision: This was an easy debate for Pro. Considering the fact that America is a Democracy, all Communists have a place. If America was like Maoist China then Communists would not have had a place. Pro talked about how there are positive sides of Communism which is what wins this debate for him. Con provided more sources however. Good debate to both sides. I agree with Stalin. Shader avoided questions( Arguments) Except it's not who had more sources, but which source was more reliable...
Vote Placed by STALIN 3 years ago
STALIN
vaporizeislandsShader609Tied
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Total points awarded:32 
Reasons for voting decision: This was an easy debate for Pro. Considering the fact that America is a Democracy, all Communists have a place. If America was like Maoist China then Communists would not have had a place. Pro talked about how there are positive sides of Communism which is what wins this debate for him. Con provided more sources however. Good debate to both sides.