The Instigator
Laupppaige
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Rosalie
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points

Confederate Flag

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Rosalie
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/7/2015 Category: Education
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,217 times Debate No: 73076
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (2)

 

Laupppaige

Con

confederate flag...?
Rosalie

Pro

You wrote "confederate flag...?" with a question mark, meaning that you may be confused and need clarification upon what the Confederate flag is, so here is a brief history of the Confederate flag, enjoy! :)

The six southern states of South Carolina, Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana, and Florida met February 4, 1861, in convention at Montgomery, Alabama, and established the Confederate States of America.

They were soon joined by Texas, and after the firing on Fort Sumter on April 12, they were joined by Tennessee, North Carolina, Arkansas, and Virginia. Missouri and Kentucky were prevented from seceding by the presence of federal troops, but both states sent unofficial representatives to the Confederate Congress and both supplied troops to the Confederate Army.

The eleven seceding states, plus Missouri and Kentucky, are represented in the constellation of thirteen stars in the Confederate flag. The other two slave states, Maryland and Delaware, did not secede.1

The first national flag of the Confederate States of America was adopted at the Montgomery convention. After the delegates had established the Confederacy, a special committee was appointed to design a flag and a seal for the new nation.

Walker Brooke, a Mississippi delegate, offered a resolution to instruct the committee to design a flag as similar as possible to the American flag, the Stars and Stripes. (figure 1)

Brooke, and several other delegates, praised the Stars and Stripes and some even suggested that the CSA adopt the American flag with no change at all. However, the patriotic fervor that swept through the convention forced Brooke to withdraw his resolution.2

The flag committee was swamped with so many models and designs that the committee chairman, William Porcher Miles of South Carolina, lost track of the number. When Miles made his report March 5, he explained to the convention that the committee had divided the proposed designs into two classes: 1) variations of the American flag, and 2) highly original and elaborate designs.

Although the chairman personally considered the American flag a symbol of oppression and tyranny, the committee's recommended design retained "a suggestion of the old Stars and Stripes."3

In explaining the committee's recommendations, Miles said the basic colors red, white, and blue were retained. But rather than displaying red and white stripes, the Confederate flag displayed two red bars and one white bar. In the canton, or union corner, a star for each state was placed in a field of blue.

This flag, which almost immediately became known as the Stars and Bars, was raised at Montgomery on March 4, 1861. (figure 2)

The Stars and Bars, though popular with many Confederate officials, did not capture the imagination of the general public who seemed disappointed that their new nation was symbolized by such an unimaginative emblem. The design of the Stars and Bars was an unfortunate compromise. It looked too much like the American flag for some Confederates, and not enough like it to others.4

Confusion on Battlefield

The resemblance between the two flags became apparent at the American Civil War's first call to battle.

In early July 1861, General P.G.T. Beauregard directed his quartermaster to issue to each of his troops a red flannel badge to be worn on the left shoulder. Those red badges would distinguish Confederate soldiers from Federal soldiers whose uniforms were similar in style, color, and markings.

Even with these distinctive red badges, the difficulty of identifying the opposing army especially at great distances created much anxiety and near catastrophe for the Confederates on July 21 at Manassas Junction, near Bull Run Creek, the first major battle of the Civil War.

About 4 o'clock that afternoon, Beauregard looked across the Warrenton turnpike, which ran through the valley between the Confederates and the Federals, who occupied the higher elevation. He saw a column of troops moving toward his left and the Federals right. He was anxious to learn if they were his troops or the enemy's.

The swirling clouds of dust obscured them; their uniforms were similar; and their national colors were indistinguishable on that hot, sultry day with little or no wind to waft them.

Beauregard asked his officers to study the movement through their field glasses to see if they could identify the approaching army. They were finally identified as friendly forces, but during those agonizing moments of delay and indecision, some Confederate troops fired on their comrades approaching from the left.5

After it was learned that both Federal and Confederate troops wore badges of red flannel, officials of both armies accused their opponents of using the markings and colors of the other side as a military strategem.

Following the First Battle of Manassas, General Joseph E. Johnston, General G. W. Smith, General Beauregard, and other Confederate officers were determined that the fiasco at Manassas would not happen again.

Johnston, the ranking Confederate officer, ordered all military units to use the flags of their states. But only Virginia had supplied her troops with their state flag. The Confederate officers were then determined to design and adopt a battle flag that would be clearly recognizable.6

Beauregard Battle Flag

Beauregard, who had already anticipated the need for a new battle flag, wrote to William P. Miles, chairman of the House Military Affairs Committee of the Confederate Congress, suggesting the adoption of a new national flag. Failing in that effort, Beauregard asked his Louisiana officers to suggest some possible new designs for a battle flag.

When it became known that a new battle flag would soon be adopted, the high command was inundated with designs and drafts. Of the many different designs and configurations, the basic pattern that appeared most often was a cross, of various shapes, emblazoned with stars. The colors of red, white, and blue were also prominent.7

After lengthy consideration was given to various designs, Johnston and Quartermaster General William L. Cabell met with Beauregard at his headquarters in Virginia on September 1861 to finalize the design of the new battle flag. Johnston proposed a flag in the shape of an ellipse with a red field and a blue saltier (a diagonal cross, often called a St. Andrew's cross) containing a white star for each Confederate state.

Beauregard had suggested in his letter to Congressman Miles a square or rectangular design consisting of a blue field with a red cross containing gold stars. It appears from that correspondence that Beauregard favored either a Latin cross (a crucifix) or a Greek cross (St. George's), rather than the diagonal cross of St. Andrew.

Congressman Miles found Beauregard's color combination to be contrary to the laws of heraldry and suggested a blue saltier, with white stars, on a field of red. Deferring to Miles' knowledge of heraldry, Beauregard accepted his modifications and included them in his final proposal to Johnston and Cabell.8

As the three Confederate officers were considering the design of the battle flag, Cabell indicated that Beauregard's design would be easier and quicker to produce than Johnston's and there would be no waste of cloth in a square or rectangular flag. Johnston, though he outranked Beauregard, accepted Beauregard's design and directed that the new battle flag be a perfect square. (figure 3)

The size of the flag was 4 x 4' for infantry, 3 x 3' for artillery, and 2 1/2 x 2 1/2' for cavalry.

General Bradley T. Johnson, whose Maryland regiment fought with the Confederacy at Manassas, had seen a watercolor drawing of the original design and described the flag several years later as a red square, on which was displayed a blue St. Andrew's cross, bordered with white, and charged with thirteen white, five-pointed stars. He referred to this design as Beauregard's battle flag.9

Source: http://mshistorynow.mdah.state.ms.us...
Debate Round No. 1
Laupppaige

Con

Thank you so much! are you pro or for it?
Rosalie

Pro

I'm pro in this debate, to prove that there is a meaning behind the "Confederate Flag" but otherwise, I wish to not state my stance on the flag, for that would end up as another debate.
Debate Round No. 2
Laupppaige

Con

Totally fine Thanks again!
Rosalie

Pro

Well we must finish up these rounds.
Debate Round No. 3
Laupppaige

Con

Yes we do
Rosalie

Pro

Well, here is some fact's about the Confederate Flag!
MYTH - The War of 1861 - 1865 was fought over slavery.

FACT - Terribly untrue. The North fought the war over money. Plain and simple. When the South started Secession, Lincoln was asked, "Why not let the South go in peace?" To which he replied, "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?" Sensing total financial ruin for the North, Lincoln waged war on the South. The South fought the War to repel Northern aggression and invasion.

MYTH - Only Southerners owned slaves.

FACT - Entirely untrue. Many Northern civilians owned slaves. Prior to, during and even after the War Of Northern Aggression.

Surprisingly, to many history impaired individuals, most Union Generals and staff had slaves to serve them! William T. Sherman had many slaves that served him until well after the war was over and did not free them until late in 1865.

U.S. Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn't free his slaves earlier, Grant stated "Good help is so hard to come by these days."

Contrarily, Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves (which he never purchased - they were inherited) in 1862!!! Lee freed his slaves several years before the war was over, and considerably earlier than his Northern counterparts. And during the fierce early days of the war when the South was obliterating the Yankee armies!

Lastly, and most importantly, why did NORTHERN States outlaw slavery only AFTER the war was over? The so-called "Emancipation Proclamation" of Lincoln only gave freedom to slaves in the SOUTH! NOT in the North! This pecksniffery even went so far as to find the state of Delaware rejecting the 13th Amendment in December of 1865 and did not ratify it (13th Amendment / free the slaves) until 1901!

MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag was flown on slave ships.

FACT - NONE of the flags of the Confederacy or Southern Nation ever flew over a slave ship. Nor did the South own or operate any slaves ships. The English, the Dutch and the Portugese brought slaves to this country, not the Southern Nation.

BUT, even more monumental, it is also very important to know and understand that Federal, Yankee, Union ships brought slaves to America! These ships were from the New England states, and their hypocrisy is atrocious.

These Federals were ones that ended up crying the loudest about slavery. But without their ships, many of the slaves would have never arrived here. They made countless fortunes on the delivery of slaves as well as the products madefrom raw materials such as cotton and tobacco in the South.

This is the problem with Yankee history History is overwhelmingly portrayed incorrectly by most of the Federal & Yankee books and media.

Source: http://www.rulen.com...
Debate Round No. 4
Laupppaige

Con

Omg i was just on that website
Rosalie

Pro

Thanks for the debate!
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by CommunistDog 1 year ago
CommunistDog
I interpret the flag as slavery. ME NO LIKE SLAVERY!
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by tajshar2k 1 year ago
tajshar2k
LaupppaigeRosalieTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: No arguments made by Con.
Vote Placed by ResponsiblyIrresponsible 1 year ago
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
LaupppaigeRosalieTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Only PRO made any arguments. Therefore, she wins by default.