The Instigator
EBaldofsky
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Maedis
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Confederate flag stands for rebellion not slavery now a days

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/25/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,680 times Debate No: 21488
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

EBaldofsky

Pro

Set up
Round 1 = acceptance

Rules
Forfeit and you lose conduct.
No "shouting" or bad language
Only accept this debate if you are actually against it.

I look forward to hearing my opponents points.
Maedis

Con

I accept and look forward to hearing your argument.
Debate Round No. 1
EBaldofsky

Pro

Yes the confederate flag originated in the south. But what were the reasons that the south wanted to seceded from the north. When Abraham Lincoln was elected as president in 1860. Southerners thought the government was becoming too strong. They did not think the government had the right to tell them how they should live. Southerners felt if they stayed in the United States, the North would control them.

Due to the southern states leaving the United States of America they need to create a flag which ended up to be the confederate flag. They REBELLED from the northern states and one of their beliefs were to have the right to own slaves. It represents states rights. Just like when America rebelled from England. Does are flag represent the belief on not to tax?
Maedis

Con

My opponent is correct that the South seceded from the Union because they felt that the federal government was not within its rights to take away their "property," the slaves. Let me remind you that this is not a discussion of why the south rebelled, but what the Confederate flag represents.

For my opponent to win this debate, he bears the burden of proof that the Confederate flag stands for rebellion in modern times, and not slavery. Unfortunately for him, the facts do not support his case. For example:

White Supremacist Groups still use the Confederate Flag

The Confederate flag is not a symbol of rebellion - it is a symbol of racism. Groups such as the KKK have flown the Confederate flag not because of its connections to states' rights, but because of its connotations to slavery and racial superiority. This occured during Reconstruction and even beyond that point. [1] [2]

Controversy over the Flag still Exists

My opponent cannot deny that there are still many people in the United States that associate the Confederate flag with racism, not rebellion. This alone discredits his argument. Take for example, a woman from South Carolina who has flown the flag in a predominently black neighborhood. After recieving death threats from her neighbors, she has resorted to being taken to court.

However, her reasoning is not that the flag stands for "rebellion" but for her southern culture - her offended neighbors would say otherwise. If the flag does not stand for slavery but for rebellion, why are so many of her neighbors offended, and why does she say the flag stands for her heritage? She could have stated that she was rebelling from her neighborhood, or her government - but this was not the case. The flag is to some a symbol of their ancestry, and to many others a symbol of racism that has tormented our country. [3]

Modern events such as the ones I have listed are proof enough that the flag, to some extent, stands for the racism associated with slavery. To state that the flag does not carry these connotations contradicts with the facts.

Sources

1) http://www.wtblock.com...
2) http://ecarson.wordpress.com...
3) http://today.msnbc.msn.com...;
Debate Round No. 2
EBaldofsky

Pro

Now a days the state of Mississippi has the Confederate Battle Flag in it. In 2001, Mississippi legislative but to vote if they wanted to change the flag which was turned down. So you are to tell that the state of Mississippi does in fact support the idea of slavery. You do say that confederacy does mean a rebellion or unification of individuals. If you go outside and start waving the flag in a black community people will not agree with it. The only reason they will have that feeling is because of the history of the flag. The debate is about does is stand as slavery now a days.
You have those people that call them self rednecks that live in the northern states such as New Jersey and New York. They fly confederate flags but no one calls them racist. They call those people wanna be rednecks. Rednecks are commonly known for their rebellious life style. You can say that you can rebel from anything.
No matter how you say it, Confederate flag stands for both slavery and Rebellion. The question at and is really, has America realized that we have grown up and only the uncivilized people will support the slavery.
Maedis

Con

I have shown through my sources that the Confederate flag stands for the southern heritage, and is still considered a symbol of slavery today. Let me address some of the flaws in your argument:

"you are to tell that the state of Mississippi does in fact support the idea of slavery" No. I suggest that the state of Mississppi flys the flag due to its heritage. This does not change the fact that the Confederate flag is still associated with slavery and racism.

"live in the northern states such as New Jersey and New York. They fly confederate flags but no one calls them racist." As a resident of New Jersey myself, I can assure you that flying a Confederate flag would be recieved poorly by many different people. I would be called a racist. In fact, a quick google search just now revealed a story that occurred only a few days ago about a man from Minnesota who flies a Confederate flag at home. [1]

While the man says that the flag stands for individual liberty, he has caused an uproar in his community. The author of the article even discusses the flag's ties with racism. You cannot state that the Confederate flag stands for rebellion when so many different people from across the country have been outraged by its use.

Let me remind you that you bear the burden of proof to prove that the Confederate flag stands for rebellion and not slavery in modern America. I have shown concrete evidence that proves that the flag stands for its heritage but is still associated with slavery. None of this has to do with the idea of rebellion.

Furthermore, let me suggest you actually read the points I have presented, rather than copy and pasting your response from another one of your debates. [2]

Sources

1) http://blogs.citypages.com...
2) http://www.debate.org...

I wait for your rebuttal. You have yet to address any of the contentions I have presented, and have instead inserted a cookie cutter response crafted from another debate.
Debate Round No. 3
EBaldofsky

Pro

Your first source that you use, The Confederate Flag: Symbol of Culture or Racism, also talks about the Nazi Flag. The Nazi Flag was a flag that represented Hitlers regime and his idea of taking over the world and being able to be a world conqueror. He wanted to kill people.
No Matter where you go in the world there is controversy regarding anything. We can sit here and argue for hours for some such as 9/11 was an inside job. If you do go to the south, obviously the people with the thick heritage will probably believe in slavery but will not promote such acts.
In popular culture, The Dukes of Hazards, A Confederate flag was displayed on top of the car. The producer had no problem with putting the movie out. In the movie, did the main characters that drove the car promote Racism, no they Promoted Rebellion.
Another example that caused a commotion was when Fire Department in south jersey wanted to put a confederate flag on the t-shirts that bared their companies logo. They voted 12-10 to use the flag.
Maedis

Con

Maedis forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
EBaldofsky

Pro

EBaldofsky forfeited this round.
Maedis

Con

Maedis forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Anayansi 2 years ago
Anayansi
With all due respect, I believe that the original premise of the debate is flawed. Nobody in their right mind who flies that flag is advocating slavery. Slavery has been abolished for over a century and is not likely to be re-instated, racism, however is alive and well. So the debate should have been:
>>>Confederate flag stands for rebellion not racism now a days.<<<
Now, if you want to call racists "rebels", in this day of political correctness, then that would be a different debate.
Posted by 16kadams 2 years ago
16kadams
Agreed.
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