The Instigator
lgates48
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
Preston
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Conformity is inevitable

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Preston
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/9/2015 Category: People
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,085 times Debate No: 76358
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (1)

 

lgates48

Pro

Conformity is inevitable.

Conformity - "behavior that is the same as the behavior of most other people in a society, group, etc."
Inevitable - "sure to happen"
http://www.merriam-webster.com...

People's brains are wired for cohesiveness. Mammals developed the ability to feel social pains and pleasures, which links our constant well-being to how socially connected we are. Primates have also formed the ability to understand the actions of those around them to strategically interact appropriately and to stay connected. "Whereas connection is about our desire to be social, harmonizing refers to the neural adaptations that allow group beliefs and values to influence our own." (http://www.humanjourney.us...) The way we feel connected is by doing the same things others do to get those social pleasures. Humans' brains have been wired like this from the start, and more recent generations still maintain that instinct, therefore conformity is inevitable.
Preston

Con

Definitions - - -
Conformity - behavior in accordance with socially accepted conventions or standards. - This is used to broadly describe thus it is related to the general public (EVERYONE) (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...)
is - Third person singular present of be. (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...)
Inevitable - So frequently experienced or seen that it is completely predictable. (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...)

Contentions - - -

- - - Social Alignment - - -
My First Argument is focused on the definition of conformity, by definition conformity forces my opponent to argue everyone will become aligned with what is socially accepted. This however cannot be achieved, logically society is always changing, infinitely in fact. We see this if we look at the past and compare to the present. In the past we see less acceptance and more violence. Slavery was accepted, People were allowed to duel each other, ect. Thus we see a never ending shift.

Now following this Logic, If you stand just shy of matching society you have not conformed to it, thus:
X < Y

where X is you and Y is societal standards, because even if you decide to conform, society will change from what you conformed to. Thus you are always behind societal standards.

- - -Real World- - -
As of now there are no real world examples of this, the elderly hold their standard and it can be 100% different from what society believes. In order for my opponent to win he must show EVERYONE will conform. Thus he must show that even those who hold strict standards will not change.

- - -Occam's Razor- - -
Now I know this seems an oddity to put in this debate, however it plays into the Real World examples. In case you are unfimilliar with Occam's Razor (http://math.ucr.edu...) it states "The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct." So my opponent must prove all points Wrong using the least amount of assumptions, and instead actual fact and logic. You cannot simply assume everyone will conform, but instead you must prove they will.

- - -Inevitable- - -
By definition my opponent loses here, Inevitable is defined as being frequent, However we don't see everyone conforming, as stated in my real world section. Thus it is not predictable because its not constantly happening.


- - -BOP- - -
This is perhaps one of the most critical parts of today's debate, In order for my opponent to win he must fulfill the Burden of Proof, If he cannot show you that everyone is conforming then you vote NEG

thankyou ;)
Debate Round No. 1
lgates48

Pro

To refute my opponent's first argument, social standards only change because of society. The change can only take place if the people adopt it, so the people are conforming and agreeing to the change itself. For example, when the Emancipation Proclamation was placed, everyone ignored it because it was not the social standard at the time. The people didn't agree with it, therefore they didn't adopt it, and the change never occurred.

When conforming to social standards, it depends on what social standards are in consideration. For example, it is a social standard to wear shoes in a restaurant. If someone walks into a restaurant without shoes, they are not welcome, so they have to conform.

Society can believe in different things. For example, Democrats and Republicans are all apart of society and believe in different things; the people conform to the general democratic or republican ideas. The elderly are still apart of society and may hold a different standard, but they, as a group, conform and agree to that standard. Everyone is always conforming to something, no matter who they are or what they are conforming to; society does not hold just one standard.
Preston

Con

I will start by addressing my opponents post then continue from there:
"To refute my opponent's first argument, social standards only change because of society. The change can only take place if the people adopt it, so the people are conforming and agreeing to the change itself."

This is the point, no one is exactly conformed because society is constantly adapting, you cannot show everyone will reach the point of conformed thus it is not inevitable.


"For example, when the Emancipation Proclamation was placed, everyone ignored it because it was not the social standard at the time. The people didn't agree with it, therefore they didn't adopt it, and the change never occurred."

This again supports my view, people still do not believe in freedom for all and thus they are not conformed. This example just shows a history of people opposing change.

"When conforming to social standards, it depends on what social standards are in consideration. For example, it is a social standard to wear shoes in a restaurant. If someone walks into a restaurant without shoes, they are not welcome, so they have to conform.

Society can believe in different things. For example, Democrats and Republicans are all apart of society and believe in different things; the people conform to the general democratic or republican ideas. The elderly are still apart of society and may hold a different standard, but they, as a group, conform and agree to that standard. Everyone is always conforming to something, no matter who they are or what they are conforming to; society does not hold just one standard."

You again have not shown that people are constantly conforming and thus you cannot make this claim.

now to my side:

ALL MY POINTS STILL STAND, none were directly refuted so i push them onto the next phase.

At this point you are voting neg, no points stand for pro, and all mine stand, Occam's razor eliminates the assumptions that my opponent is trying to make, because societal standards are always changing we see that it makes no sense to say everyone will achieve the state of conformation, Conformity is not predictable and thus not inevitable, AND in the real world people do not conform.
Debate Round No. 2
lgates48

Pro

Just because society constantly changes, doesn't mean that people still aren't conforming to another, separate standard. Yes, people ignored the Emancipation Proclamation, showing non-conformity for that change, but that doesn't mean they weren't conforming at all. They were conforming to their current social standards, where one of them was slavery. My previous explanation about the Emancipation Proclamation was only to support my statement about how the people never really have to catch up to the changes in society because they themselves create the change; changes in society can only take place if the general population conform to it, and if they don't, it will end up like the Emancipation Proclamation.

In addition, there are laws and regulations enforcing conformity, and even if one breaks the law, they still have to conform by going to jail, doing community service, or accepting any punishment. If that is not real world to you, then what is? If that is not constant conformity, then what is?

I directly refuted your statement about the elderly standards being completely different from society by saying: elderly people are still considered apart of society, society does not hold only one standard, the general elderly conform to their own standards in their group (as opposed to a younger social group).

Again, the human species has been wired to connect and feel with and for those around us so we can act appropriately by doing what they do, conforming.

I thank my opponent for the good debate. I'm a girl just to mention, not a "he".

Preston

Con

Alright to end, I will address the final post of my opponent and then summarize why you will vote CON:
"Just because society constantly changes, doesn't mean that people still aren't conforming to another, separate standard. Yes, people ignored the Emancipation Proclamation, showing non-conformity for that change, but that doesn't mean they weren't conforming at all."

Conformity - behavior in accordance with socially accepted conventions or standards

This is an agreed upon definition that I presented and is the ONLY CITED definition. This is not talking about a degree of change it is talking about meeting societal standards. When you cross apply my contention stating that people literally cannot conform because it changes infinitely, you see that people are not conforming.

“They were conforming to their current social standards, where one of them was slavery. My previous explanation about the Emancipation Proclamation was only to support my statement about how the people never really have to catch up to the changes in society because they themselves create the change; changes in society can only take place if the general population conform to it, and if they don't, it will end up like the Emancipation Proclamation.”

Once again, racism still exists, and people still violate others rights based off race so you see not everyone conforms.

“In addition, there are laws and regulations enforcing conformity, and even if one breaks the law, they still have to conform by going to jail, doing community service, or accepting any punishment. If that is not real world to you, then what is? If that is not constant conformity, then what is?”

Once again Law is not a forced factor, it does not guarantee change, look to Nebraska where the death penalty is now abolished but people still kill and are actively trying to reinstitute it.

“I directly refuted your statement about the elderly standards being completely different from society by saying: elderly people are still considered apart of society, society does not hold only one standard, the general elderly conform to their own standards in their group (as opposed to a younger social group).”

Once again you must prove that all the elderly are conformed, and they are not, there are elderly people who do not meet societal standards and if they do not then they do not support the resolutions.



“Again, the human species has been wired to connect and feel with and for those around us so we can act appropriately by doing what they do, conforming.”

Again you have not proven this thus we cannot assume it.



“I thank my opponent for the good debate. I'm a girl just to mention, not a "he".”

I apologize if I have hurt your feelings but I defaulted to he because there is no indication of gender on the profile you have.

now this is why you are voting Neg:

My opponent has not adressed occams razor, This eliminates my opponents assumptions, thus she has no case. because my opponent has no standing case she will lose her BOP.

My points remain standing, she hasnt shown this to be a predictable thing,she hasn't shown real world examples, and she hasn't shown people will ever achive it either.

I push my case and End todays debate, Thank you!

Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Diqiucun_Cunmin 2 years ago
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Conduct to Pro because Con presented a new definition OUP definition of Inevitable in R1 and subsequently exploited it, when Pro had already presented a definition from M-W. Eventually, most of the arguments became a matter of interpretation. Pro's interpretation of the resolution was that if all individuals, at a given time, show social conformity, then it is inevitable. Con holds that if all individuals conform to a certain social expectation, then it is inevitable. This was the case for the Emancipation Proclamation argument, the elderly argument and so on. Con used Occam's Razor, but did not make it clear enough what assumptions his opponent had made and why they were fewer than his, so I don't think he wins on that point. However, ultimately, Pro fails to demonstrate that conformity is inevitable, even by her own definitions and interpretation of the resolution. She stated that mammals have conformity hard-wired in their brains, but it does not inevitably follow from this that conformity happens 100% of the time. Thus Pro fails to fulfill the BOP and Con wins arguments.
Posted by Preston 2 years ago
Preston
wait but they cant
Posted by Preston 2 years ago
Preston
unless everyone conforms to inventors!!!!!
Posted by awesomenezz1234 2 years ago
awesomenezz1234
In my opinion, social conformity is inevitable. As was said by Igates48, the human brain is hardwired for social conformity. My question, however, is if it is a problem. Today, many young people are exposed to exactly the same things as each other through the internet, and that is further exacerbated through social media. This has caused many young people to act more similarly than they have in the past, and, also, subsequently to become more tightly woven as friends, even when not in the same community. Also, even though social conformity will occur eventually, there will always be at least one person who thinks differently, for whatever reason. These people might be innovators, and they might be drug dealers, but there will always be people who think differently. For that reason, I don't think general social conformity will cause invention and innovation to cease.
Posted by Preston 2 years ago
Preston
GoodLuckHaveFun!
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Diqiucun_Cunmin 2 years ago
Diqiucun_Cunmin
lgates48PrestonTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments because I slightly exceeded the limit again.