The Instigator
shwayze
Pro (for)
Losing
48 Points
The Contender
dairygirl4u2c
Con (against)
Winning
49 Points

Conservatives are smarter than Liberals.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/5/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,507 times Debate No: 3095
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (52)
Votes (23)

 

shwayze

Pro

I am arguing on the single fact that conservatives, unlike liberals, LEARN FROM PAST EXPERIENCE. Socialism has been an utter failure in the past and yet liberals continue to triumph the idea of socialism in the United States today. How have they not learned? I think the funniest thing is that the libs today blame the conservatives and GOP for all the problems in America, and yet the vast majority of the problems ARE FROM THE SOCIALIST PROGRAMS FDR INSTITUTED IN THE NEW DEAL AND LBJ CREATED IN THE GREAT SOCIETY. Libs blame conservatives for problems they brought upon themselves.
dairygirl4u2c

Con

actually, liberaler states tend to have higher iq's than conservative.
http://www.vdare.com...

meaning they're probably smarter by standardized tests.

things like the new deal were good at that time. it grew into something bad. the bible says to tax people and save in case you need it for the future when htere's problems ahead.

laissez faire without governemnt intervention at all has caused people to not be able to find jobs at all, and to work for anything they could get their hands on... in the past. in the US it's not so much a problem necessarily but that is the ultimately end of pure non interventionist capitalism.

also, the poor is getting poor and the rich richer. now, there's something to be debated for why... but to assume that this is simply okay or that capitalism is correct is baseless.

see the below quotes for more info.

also, you're making a false dichotomy by saying liberals are dumb and conservatives are smart, socialism v capitalism.... cause the US is not either, and theoretically, a system can be a mixture of both, and then it's not either. so, liberals and socialism isn't necessarily accurate.

if you want to talk about extreme liberals, then sure. i think you'd be surprised there's not as many extreme ones as you'd think.
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Genesis 41 is about the wisdom of instituting taxes, not cutting them. After Pharaoh had a dream that prophesied seven fat years to be followed by seven lean years, Joseph advised him to "appoint officers over the land, and take up the fifth part of the land of Egypt in the seven plenteous years...and lay up corn under the hands of Pharaoh." In other words, a 20 percent tax on the grain harvest would put aside food for use during the famine. Pharaoh took Joseph's advice, and Egypt avoided hunger during the famine.

CBO numbers for after-tax incomes show that in 1980, the richest fifth of our country had eight times the income of the poorest fifth. By 1989, the ratio was more than 20 to one.

Income inequality, as measured by the U.S. Census Bureau, fell from the 1940s to the late 1960s, and then began rising. Inequality surpassed the 1950 level in 1982 and rose steadily to all-time highs in 1992. (Census Bureau's "Money Income of Households, Families and Persons in the United States")

european companies are socialistic and look at this (not that we should be either or, just that there's some good to it):
The average cash income of the poorest 20 percent of Americans is $5,226; the average cash income of four major European nations--Germany, France, United Kingdom and Italy--is $19,708.

The United States ranks 19th in life expectancy and 20th in infant mortality among 23 industrialized nations, according to the CIA's 1993 World Fact Book. The U.S. also has the lowest health care satisfaction rate (11 percent) of the 10 largest industrialized nations (Health Affairs, vol. 9, no. 2).
--------------

i do acknowledge the number on health above can be interpreted many ways, but it's showing some socialistic components are not necessarily all bad.
even if gov intervention when we'd rather none means lives saved and such, it's still somewhat good right?
whatever the case, when 20-30 year olds can't afford a basic surgery, when back in the day they could, there's something fundamentally wrong with our system.
Debate Round No. 1
shwayze

Pro

"things like the new deal were good at that time. it grew into something bad."

I completely agree. The problem I have with liberals is that their answer to this is not to change direction, but to expand these programs and give more power to the government. I think Reagan hit it on the head when he said that government wasnt the solution, it was the problem.

"also, you're making a false dichotomy by saying liberals are dumb and conservatives are smart, socialism v capitalism.... cause the US is not either, and theoretically, a system can be a mixture of both, and then it's not either. so, liberals and socialism isn't necessarily accurate."

I'm not trying to create an argument about socialism vs. capitalism. I am making the point that a distinguishable distinction between conservatives and liberals is that conservatives understand the past and learn from experience, and thus I think the majority of conservatives have smarter intentions than those of liberals.

"if you want to talk about extreme liberals, then sure. i think you'd be surprised there's not as many extreme ones as you'd think."

I might have to disagree on this point. I know a lot of democrats and liberals that I can talk to with rationale and decency, but I feel like, over the last decade, the left has been high-jacked by the radical left, and I think its a shame to the old fashion democrats because their logic is being triumphed by extreme liberalism. Academia has become way left-wing, so has the media. I think its unfair to the mainstream democrats, but its almost as if they have no option but to associate with the extreme left wing in today's societies because the extreme left wing is where a lot of $$$ comes from.

I agree that health care costs way too much in the United States, but is nationalizing it the answer? I dont think so. There are ways we can reduce costs of health care without socializing it. If Medicaid is going broke (which it is at a fast rate), how are we possibly going to be able to afford national healthcare for 300,000,000 people? England has a population of around 50,000,000 people and their nationalized health care system is going to go broke within 20 years. our population is 6 times that size and nationalizing health care would cost tons of money and put a heavy tax burden on the majority of americans. Cutting taxes across the board seems like the first viable solution. More money in the pockets, more money to afford health care, more money to spend, which will grow the economy. This paragraph was way off topic but I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.

My main point is that liberals are compounding the problem, not fixing it. We need to get rid of a lot of these social programs that our draining our economic system. Conservatives have learned from the past, and (from my opinion) liberals for some reason continue to neglect it.
dairygirl4u2c

Con

dairygirl4u2c forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
shwayze

Pro

lets take health care for instance. i would love every person in the United States to be able to afford healthcare, but the answer is not bigger government. LEARNING FROM EXPERIENCE, Nationalized Healthcare has been a failure. Look at Cuba, Canada, and England. All these countries healthcare systems are going are to go bankrupt in 20 years. England has 50 million people and their system is going to be completely bankrupt in 15-20 years. That=lower quality health care, more taxation. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama want to NATIONALIZE healthcare for 300 million people? 6 times the population of England? We have the greatest healthcare system in the world. Why would we want the governemnt to take over healthcare? Government isnt the solution, it's the problem. Why cant we just look at the examples of socialized healthcare around the world. Its no hidden secret that these systems are costing extraordinary amount of taxes. People are paying proportionally more than for the lower quality healthcare they get. Entrepreneurialship and the free market have always been betters ways of finding solutions. Expanding government is exactly what the founders of the country warned against. They would be spinning in their tumes at the mere idea of this. Conservatives have learned from the past while the liberals have blatantly neglected it.
dairygirl4u2c

Con

dairygirl4u2c forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
52 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by attrition 8 years ago
attrition
TRUTH!!!?!?!? LOL! Ah, Shwayze up to your old hijinks again! You are like that embarrassing uncle no one likes thats keeps on calling everyone by racist terms, questioning their sexuality and or manhood if they don't like war, and of course fondling little boys in the basement of Grandma's house (which of course he still lives in). Still batting 0.00%. Sooner or later someone has got to just completely not post an argument. I mean maybe at least then you can get a tie.
Posted by shwayze 9 years ago
shwayze
actually the republican party ended slavery, more republicans voted for the civil rights act than democrats in congress, and the new deal was an entirely fascist agenda. and you know what, libs are ruining this country. read the book "100 people who are screwing up America" and tell me what you think. And there are a bunch of libs who are good people, but I blame them for electing and putting into office these marxist liberals who are destroying our country.

i dont care about winning debates. as long as I get the truth out, that's all that matters.
Posted by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
Woah, shwayze! Is... is it... is it possible you aren't really likable?!
Posted by shwayze 9 years ago
shwayze
i love how with one argument and two forfeited rounds, the liberal still wins the debate on this site....
Posted by notpolicydebategod 9 years ago
notpolicydebategod
dairy had a much better debate. any1 whovoted swayze was biased.
Posted by shwayze 9 years ago
shwayze
It is used by both sides, but I've encountered an amazing amount of libs on this site that have put words in my mouth more than a few times.
Posted by sarsin 9 years ago
sarsin
where did i say that? putting words in my mouth, another POLITICAL tactic.

There, I fixed it for you. Let's not pretend that the left is the only one that does that.
Posted by shwayze 9 years ago
shwayze
where did i say that? putting words in my mouth, another lib tactic.
Posted by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
Empirically, you have.

Yes, I'm the one who takes everything literally, Mr. "He called me a racist". Yep.
Posted by shwayze 9 years ago
shwayze
how in any way did i put words in anyone's mouth? Again, you take everything so literally like all the other libs. Just breathe.
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Vote Placed by F-16_Fighting_Falcon 4 years ago
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