The Instigator
Aleksa_Stojkovic
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
MasterofPun
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Contradictions in the Bible are non-existent

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/11/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 845 times Debate No: 107821
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (40)
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Aleksa_Stojkovic

Pro

(1) You can only provide one contradiction at a time
(2) You have to use the King James Version exclusively
MasterofPun

Con

I'll take this up: albeit I'm actually a Christian, but maybe I can stump you with some of these supposed "contradictions".

Genesis 1:3 (KJV) And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Genesis 1:14-19 God creates the sun and stars.

CONTRADICTION: How can light exist without any light source?
Debate Round No. 1
Aleksa_Stojkovic

Pro

Thank you for accepting this debate.

A Genesis 1:3 / Genesis 1:14-19 contradiction does not exist, as Revelation 22:5 states that light is able to exist without the sun and the stars: "And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever." In other words, God could have been the source of light at the beginning, as he is going to be the source of light at the end.
MasterofPun

Con

Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

A person cannot be justified by all things, and also never have forgiveness.
Debate Round No. 2
Aleksa_Stojkovic

Pro

Acts 13:39 states that whoever believes is justified from all things, so how then can we have an act that can not be justified? Well, this act that can not be justified, is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. And we know that the Holy Spirit enters our bodies when we receive salvation. Therefore, one could view Mark as saying that whoever works against the Holy Spirit, he does not have justification, for he has rejected salvation. It's the two fundamental sides, either you are saved, or you are not. It's not like there is a sin that a saved person can do and risk eternal damnation. Only the unsaved blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, and that in itself causes a rejection of salvation.

I have to admit that this one is a bit ambiguous, and not very clear and matter of factly, so it's difficult to pin it, but I don't believe that it has to be a contradiction.
MasterofPun

Con

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple
1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

CONTRADICTION: Jesus in fact recommends being a murderer. This is contradictory to God commanding the Israelites NOT to murder in the 10 commandments. He also commands us to be a liar.
Debate Round No. 3
Aleksa_Stojkovic

Pro

I was expecting whoever accepts this debate to come with specific contradictions like did Solomon have 40,000 or 4,000 stalls. You seem to take the other way, and that is fine too, it's only that my answers can be as specific as the contradiction that is put forth.

You can love a teddy bear, a person, and the blue sky - the meaning of the word love changes as the context changes. In the same way, the meaning of the word hate changes as the context changes, and from the context, we understand Jesus' message to be this: a person can not follow him and be a good disciple, unless that person is willing to abandon his entire family, and his entire life, and not do as they say, or require. When we switch the context to the different verse, the meaning of hate is a malicious and toxic hate, which is what God forbids people to have. In addition, Jesus gave a real life example of his teaching, when he was told that his family is present, and he declared that he didn't consider them family, but that all who believe in him are his family. It does not say that he maliciously hated them, it's only a word that has a wide spectrum of meanings.
MasterofPun

Con

I already knew about that contradiction, and was saving it for last. Seeing as this is the last post you will get to respond to, let's hit the Solomon contradiction!

1 Kings 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
2 Chronicles 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

Did Solomon have 40,000 or 4,000 stalls of his horses? It is unrealistic to think he could build 10x his amount stalls - seeing as the accounts seem to be talking about the same point in his reign. Is that the case?
Debate Round No. 4
Aleksa_Stojkovic

Pro

Regarding Solomon's property, whether there were forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, or whether there were four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, I believe the simplicity of the solution here is beautiful.

1 Kings 4:26 states that there were forty thousand stalls of horses, for his chariots, while 2 Chronicles 9:25 states that there were four thousand stalls for horses and chariots. Are you able to see the difference in these verses?

1 Kings 4:26 does describe that Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses, that are to be taken into use for his chariots, but does not provide information on how many chariots were in his possession. However, Chronicles does:

"And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots..." This verse quite clearly states that there were 4,000 stalls that could accompany horses and chariots, which is entirely different from stalls that are for horses specifically.

Interesting point: If it indeed be true that 40,000 are for horses, while 4,000 for horses and chariots, then there would be about 10 horses per chariot, which is a perfectly reasonable number for a wealthy kingdom such as his.
MasterofPun

Con

Well, this is the last post of the debate. I can't bring up any new arguments, as my opponent would not be able respond to it.
So, for closing remarks:
1. I hope this has profited any readers
2. Feel free to open up another debate to discuss subjects likes these - they are very productive
3. Remember: feel free to particpate in debates that you know you will lose. As long as you're willing to aid discussion, you can swallow your pride and accept a bad Win/Loss ratio.
Debate Round No. 5
40 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by kwagga_la 5 months ago
kwagga_la
*you do NOT have sins you have to be saved from.
Posted by kwagga_la 5 months ago
kwagga_la
The Holy Spirit was sent to convict the world of sin. To reject the Holy Spirit is to deny this testimony and therefore blasphemy, basically calling the HolycSpirit a liar saying you do have sins you have to be saved from. To reject the Holy Spirit means no repentance from sins because you do not admit you have sin. You cannot get forgiveness if you do not acknowledge sin and therefore no pardon. That is why it is called the unpardonable sin.
Posted by kwagga_la 5 months ago
kwagga_la
To add to the discussion. Lighting produces light and do not need the sun. Electricity is harnessed to produce light. The sun is a source of light not light itself.

I do not believe the big bang, but if there was friction or an explosion, then light would have been present before the sun and the stars. Strange how atheists who believe in the big bang can say light before the sun and stars is therefore a scientific mistake.
Posted by Aleksa_Stojkovic 5 months ago
Aleksa_Stojkovic
Thanks for the insights Lacrutos
Posted by Lacrutos 5 months ago
Lacrutos
KJV
"Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

This Verse is very much an issue of Translation: the KJV has decided in multiple places to place the word Eternal where it should not be.

Define Eternal
lasting or existing forever; without end or beginning.

the "Never" and "Eternal" have been Translated from a word "Aion" and "Aionios".

the word is an adjective just like "big" and "small" and does not put meanings into a word but draws out meanings from the word. Just like a Big Car is not the same size as a Big Coin there to the Aion and Aionios are only Eternal when applied to God nothing else why is this? God is the only one without a beginning or and ending as stated:

Psalms 90:2
2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

God has no Beginning or Ending however to say "Eternal Damnation" is you stating that they will have Damnation that had no Beginning or Ending. I hope you can see the confusion: Here is a better Translation which happens to be the Literal:

Mark 3:29
29 but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age (aion), but is in danger of age-during (aionios) judgment;'

You will find one day that nothing besides God is Eternal (with no beginning or end) everything else has a beginning (no exceptions) and some have ends. Eternal does not state this and therefor is a Translated word that is just misused mostly in the KJV. So those who speak evil in regards to the Holy Spirit will have age during judgement and then one day by the faith of Christ will be justified. However the Idea of Justification after death is a whole other issue to deal with.
Posted by Lacrutos 5 months ago
Lacrutos
"Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."

First lets deal with Acts 13:39 which is a verse concerning the old law and the new Law of Christ.

Hebrews 7:12
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

What is the Law that changed?

Romans 8:2
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

What is the Law of sin and Death?

Romas 7:6
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
-
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

How is this represented?

Galatians 2:20
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

The old Law slew Paul and no longer does he Live but Christ lives in him. This is the first Adam dieing and the Second Adam living in you. The new Law which is Christ in you has given you life which the law of Moses never could, the Law of the Letter could only bring death.

Galatians 3:24
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The Law of the Letter brings you to Christ and then you are Justified by Faith, which the Law of Moses could not do.

Moving on to the other verse in the next comment:
Posted by Lacrutos 5 months ago
Lacrutos
Aleksa_Stojkovic:

I wish to help bring even more into the Two contradictions tha have been presented so far.

Concerning Light:

Genesis 1:3
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

14-19 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

These are Physical things proclaiming Spiritual Truths:

Romans 1:20
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

The thing that was made, Sun, Stars and Light are types and shadows of the truth which is:

John 8:12
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Matthew 17:2
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Daniel 12:3
3 And those teaching do shine as the brightness of the expanse, and those justifying the multitude as stars to the age and for ever.

However this is just the tip of the iceberg concerning these words, You are correct in using revelation 22:5 to state that Christ is the Light. I just wanted to add more verses that reveal more concerning such. I will continue with the next contradiction on the next comment. Keep up the good
Posted by Aleksa_Stojkovic 5 months ago
Aleksa_Stojkovic
Yep
Posted by MagicAintReal 5 months ago
MagicAintReal
I'm saying that, in reality, you are the Con position on a "Contradictions Exist in the Bible" resolution.
This way, you would go last, as Con.
The way you have it now, Pro is making a negative case and Con is making a positive case and the debate will end on the positive case, not the challenging of that.
See what I mean?
Posted by Aleksa_Stojkovic 5 months ago
Aleksa_Stojkovic
So what you're saying is, you should create a debate with a contradiction in the 1st round?
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