Contradictions in the Bible
Debate Rounds (5)
Well, I won't overwhelm, so let me first put out three contradictions. if my opponent can satisfactorily answer them, I will pull out a few more. More than likely, however, we will just debate little pieces of these specific contradictions.
No, I didn't copy and paste these from the internet. These are favorites from my personal study.
As a favorite place to start, Genesis! I would like to show that Genesis 1 and 2 contradict explicitly. I will start with the English KJV translation, but no doubt we will engage in Hebrew exegesis as we go.
Genesis 1-2 is filled with contradictions. In modern historical criticism of the Old Testament, we have identified some points that indicate the Torah is actually a combination of several different text sources. This can clearly be seen in Genesis 1-2. Genesis 1 uses one source while Genesis 2 uses another.
Here's a basic contradiction between Genesis 1-2
1. Does God create plants before man? (Genesis 1) or man before plants? (Genesis 2)
And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples, 2 saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an @ss tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me. 3 And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them. 4 All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, 5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an @ss, and a colt the foal of an @ss.
6 And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them, 7 and brought the @ss, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.
End story, Matthew says colt and donkey, but Mark says only a colt.
So, my opponent has some questions to answer:
A) What came first, man or plants?
B) Did Jesus find the crowd on shore, or did the crowd find Him at a mountain? Did He ask about food, or His disciples? Did His disciples go to Capernaum, or to Bethsaida?
C) Did Jesus ride into Jerusalem on a donkey and a colt, or just a colt?
I look forward to the fundamentalist, hermeneutical gymnastics to come.
(Note, I had to change it to @ss to bypass the filters)
B. The feeding of the 5,000 was in the mountains then they went down to the shore, Jesus asked about the food if you have a KJV "BIBLE" the words in red is what Jesus said so I don't know why you would think that it is a contradiction.
They went to Capernaum then they went to Bethsaidanot a contradiction and last but not least Jesus ride on a colt into Jerusalem it doesn't say anywhere that he went into Jerusalem on a @ss.
Btw Evolutionists has a weak argument because they're trying to explain something that never happens.
Also micro evolution happens the other 5 are just religious.
I don't think my opponent actually read my argument...
A. Genesis 2:5-7 "and every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. 7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Clearly man is made before plants. Not so in Genesis 1. Plants there are created on the third day, man on the 6th.
B. My opponent did not actually address my questions. Mark clearly says they stepped out of the boat to a crowd, while John is depicted as the crowd coming to Jesus on a mountain. In Mark, the disciples ask about food. In John, it's Jesus.
My opponent's only rebuttal is to claim that the red letters must come from Jesus Himself... based on Louis Klopsch's 1901 Red-Letter Bible. Not exactly an excellent argument.
C. "it doesn't say anywhere that he went into Jerusalem on a @ss."
" 6 And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them, 7 and brought the @ss, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon."
^^^right there. It does.
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Again not a contradiction
Again I repeat myself the feeding of the 5,000 happened in the mountains then he probably met a different crowd.
Sorry I missed it, I don't know what Jesus went into Jerusalem on also how is it a contradiction it's just not specifically saying what he went into Jerusalem on.
If you don't like my reply I don't care take it or leave it.
Again, my opponent doesn't seem to see the contradiction so let me lay it out quite plainly. The texts are copied and pasted above so I'm really going to get it down to the bare bones to show the contradiction.
1) Genesis. Plants before man? Or man before plants?
Genesis 1:12-13, 27, 31b
And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the third day.
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them... And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Genesis 2:5a, 7, 9
And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: ... the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul... And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Clearly Genesis 1 has plants, including trees, herbs, and whatever else, on day three before the creation of man. In Genesis 2, man's creation comes first. BEFORE plants. And my opponent's attempt to reconcile it only exasperated the point. Plants were made after man in Genesis 2. Including plants. My opponent's consistently demeaning remarks that I did not read the text are unfounded. I have written papers from the original language on this passage multiple times.
2) Different crowd?
My opponent offers that perhaps Jesus just met a different crowd to feed and that's why there are differences, back-pedaling from his previous position that there was no contradiction. Is that a plausible idea? No. It is not. Here are a couple reasons.
1) The Gospel of John is 90% different in material from the Synoptic (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) Gospels. If there are similarities, it is a big deal and probably the same event.
2) The general chronology is the same. Fairly early in Jesus' ministry. Feeding of the five thousand followed by walking on water. Again, Mark and John are so dissimilar that any chronological similarity is very important.
3) Similarities in the story are present. Yes, there are contradictions, but there are also similarities to let us know this is the same story. Five loves and two fish. Jesus tells the people to sit in groups. The quote that 200 denarii of bread would not be enough. The number of people. Twelve baskets of leftovers... this is the same story.
4) This is geographically in the same place: the mountain-hill country area on the western side of the sea of Galilee.
This is the same story... and it contains contradictions
3) Jesus rides a donkey and a colt? Or just a donkey?
My opponent does not see the contradiction, still. So let me draw it out.
Matthew: Jesus asks for a donkey and a colt, they get a donkey and a colt, they saddle a donkey and a colt, and Jesus rides into Jerusalem on a donkey and a colt.
Matthew 21:7 "And brought the (donkey), and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.
Mark: Jesus asks just for a colt, they get just a colt, they saddle just a colt, and Jesus rides into Jerusalem on just a colt.
Mark 11:7 "And they brought the colt to Jesus, and cast their garments on him; and he sat upon him."
And I can guarantee you Jesus rode into Jerusalem only once.
I again await my opponent's response. We have two more rounds of this. So far he seems to have admitted a contradiction in the feeding of the 5,000 and decided it was two separate incidents. However, as I have shown, this is not the case.
I got sick of writing @ss and will just make it donkey from here on out.
The plants came before Man just like all of his creation a then He "planted" a garden east towards Eden and and then it talks about the tree's that God made to "GROW" every tree that looks good to the sight ect God did not create anything else He just made it to grow so again not a contradiction.
Just a recap God created the plants on day 3 and made it to grow on day 6 after He had created man.
Now for 1 and 2 you're just making assumptions just not stating facts this debate is about facts not opinions, when you're stating a claim eg when you said both events happening at the western side of the sea of Galilee give scscripture to back it up.
And I think Jesus rode on a Colt based on what it says in Mark and in Matthew Jesus asked them to put their Garments on the Colt and the @ss but in Mark it just says He sat upon the Colt so again not a contradiction
Mr liar I "NEVER admitted to there being a contradiction in the Bible I only said that it was two separate incidents when Jesus met the crowd.
Also I don't seem to see a contradiction because there isn't any.
God bless you I love you all with the love of God and have a good day :)
Once again, I will be rebutting my opponent's claims to unionizing the Bible
I struggled to find my opponent's point in the last rebuttal due to a lack of punctuation, but I did catch a few things that have continued to be repeated despite repeated statements on why it is wrong.
"The plants came before Man"
Again, let me quote straight from Scripture on why this is wrong from Genesis 2:5-7
And every plant of the field before it was in the earth and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Very clearly, there were no plants in the earth at all before man
My opponent claims the Bible says plants came before man, but the text tells a different story
Now on to the feeding of the 5,000 again
"when you said both events happening at the western side of the sea of Galilee give scscripture to back it up." (sic)
Sure. If you read the passage for yourself you can see that is true.
Mark makes it clear that the disciples went "to the other side before unto Bethsaida" after the feeding(Mark 6:45) And Bethsaida is on the East side of the Sea of Galilee, making the feeding on the west side
John also makes it clear in 6:22-25 that they went from an area near Tiberius to Capernaum on the "other side of the sea." And where is Tiberius? The west side!
I'd also like to address the "Mr. Liar" insult. My point was that you recognize that these stories are not reconcilable and so resorted to a different tactic of saying it was two separate incidents.
And back to the entry into Jerusalem, what did Jesus ride?
"And I think Jesus rode on a Colt based on what it says in Mark and in Matthew Jesus asked them to put their Garments on the Colt and the @ss but in Mark it just says He sat upon the Colt so again not a contradiction"
I'm confused as to why my opponent does not see the contradiction. He stated it. In Matthew, Jesus asks for a colt and a donkey, the disciples find a colt and a donkey, Jesus saddles a colt and a donkey, and He rides a colt and a donkey.
In Mark,Jesus only asks for a colt, the disciples only find a colt, they only saddle a colt, and Jesus only rides a colt.
Ignoring the text and calling me "Mr. Liar" is not fixing a contradiction.
Mate you look at the text properly.
Genesis 2:5 it says
And every plant of the field before it was in the earth and every herb of the field before it grew
Then it says there was not a man to till the ground.
I think the Bible cannot be any more obvious or you're just delusional since you keep coming back to this text.
I called you a liar because you claimed that I said that there are contradictions in the Bible I never have and never will.
Feeding of the 5,000 again they were two separate incidents.
Jesus rode on a Colt into Jerusalem again read what I said Mr liar.
You twist my words alot that's why I call you a liar.
I'll pray for you my friend.
Let's finish this up and get to the voting. This has been quite an interesting debate if nothing else.http://biblehub.com...
First, to my opponent, I meant not the punctuation remark as an insult. I simply struggled to read and understand what you were saying in some of your points because of a lack of proper grammar and punctuation.
And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.
Genesis 1 and 2... once again
My opponent seems fond of reading some of the passage and not the rest. So let me clear this up. Yes, Genesis 2 says there was no man to till the ground... and that is why there were no plants. What my opponent neglects to see is that there was no point between there not being any plants and creation of man where God creates plants.
Not only that, the text continually uses, in the Hebrew, vav consecutives and vav narrative preterites to continue the story. This means that there was no break in thought between no plants and the creation of man. It is all one continuous story. God made plants before man in Genesis 1. God made plants after man in Genesis 2. If you want to look at the vav consecutives, I left a link at the bottom of this debate.
Feeding of the 5,000... again
My opponent has stated, with no evidence, that the accounts of the feeding of the 5,000 are different incidents. However, he provided no textual evidence to back that up. I provided ample evidence in previous rounds for why it was the same event described in contradictory ways.
And yes, my opponent admitted that these accounts contradict. This is why he changed his strategy from reconciling the stories to saying they are different stories altogether. This is not saying my opponent admits the Bible contains contradictions. I had hoped he would acknowledge the nuance, but alas, he resorted to name calling.
Jesus riding into Jerusalem... again
My opponent provided no rebuttal. He has simply stated his assertion without evidence. In previous rounds, I have laid out clearly why this text contradicts. I need not bore the reader here.
Also, if we're keeping track, we have one count of calling me delusional and multiple times calling me childish things like "mr liar." And that doesn't even count the comment section. I would encourage my opponent to read James 3 and consider whether its imperatives align with his speak.
I hope this debate was interesting and no doubt entertaining for the reader.
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