The Instigator
DanT
Pro (for)
Winning
31 Points
The Contender
Sterasmas
Con (against)
Losing
6 Points

Corn is not a vegetable .

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 7 votes the winner is...
DanT
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/11/2011 Category: Science
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,428 times Debate No: 19237
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (16)
Votes (7)

 

DanT

Pro

Pro must prove Corn is not a vegetable

Con must proe Corn is a vegetable
Sterasmas

Con

I assume this is introductions. Hi I am Sterling. BoP is on the Affirmative because you must prove that Corn is not a vegtable.
Definitions:
Vegetable: a plant or part of a plant used as food, such as a cabbage, potato, turnip, or bean
Oxford Dictionary
My argument will be based on the fact corn is a vegetable because it is used as food. For example a tomato is a vegetable but it is also a fruit. Vegetable is not biologically correct term it is in fact not really a term that can be used to apply biology because a fruit;
Fruit: the sweet and fleshy product of a tree or other plant that contains seed and can be eaten as food
Oxford dictionary
Corn maybe a fruit and a vegetable because if it is edible(and a plant) it is considered a vegetable.
Debate Round No. 1
DanT

Pro

Corn is not a vegetable it is a grain. Corn is the seed of Maize, and is a fruit and a grain, but not a vegetable.

In the N.Y. State legislature, a bill came up that proposed Corn as the new State vegetable . The bill was shot down because corn was not a vegetable.
In response to the legislation, the chairman of the department of horticulture at Cornell University Dr. Marvin P. Pritts said, “The criteria is whether it comes from the reproductive part of a plant or the vegetative part of the plant,” Dr. Pritts further stated. “If it comes from the reproductive part of the plant, it’s a fruit. If it comes from the vegetative part of the plant, it’s a vegetable.”


Thus according to the department of horticulture at Cornell University;

A Fruit comes from the reproductive part of the plant
A Vegetable comes from the vegetative part of the plant

Corn is a caryopsis, or dry fruit, which is more popularly known as a grain.



http://empirezone.blogs.nytimes.com...

In order for corn to be a vegetable it must come from the stem, leaves, or root of the plant.



,




Because Corn is a grain, we are able to make Corn Bread, and popped Corn.
Sterasmas

Con

You have contradicted yourself in this debate. All of the sources you put forward say it is fruit and you are arguing against your own evidence. Also we have remember that I only I have to put reasonable doubt that Corn maybe a vegetable. Also my opponent has contradicted his own sources and he has yet to address my contention that Corn is in fact a fruit and vegetable both. We have to remember that people were contradicted for year on the tomato issue with many people but as mentioned in the book Biological and Elementary chemistry "most often when considering [vegetables] and [fruits] the fundamental difference is in the way they are used because in biology, [vegetables] are really nonexistent they are plants so the only way to tell the difference in fundamental..." he goes on to talk about the different varieties of vegetables but you get the idea, he also claims that Corn "is indeed a vegetable". My opponents case is self-contradictory and doesn't have a basis in biology we can conclude that there can only be a Neg. vote today.
Debate Round No. 2
DanT

Pro

I did not contradict myself. Corn is a fruit and a grain. I never said it wasn't a fruit. All grains are a type of fruit, as stated in my last round. Vegetables are never fruit, as also stated in my last round.

The confusion between vegetable and fruit occur when fruit have the nutritional value of vegetables. This same reasoning labels peanuts as meat, and soy as dairy.

Corn is a warm season cereal grain, like millet, fonio, sorghum, and job's tears.

Because corn is a grain, you can pop it, you can turn it into bread, and you can make corn flakes cereal.

Corn is also the most widely used feed grain. Corn accounts for 90% of all feed grain production.

http://www.ers.usda.gov...
Sterasmas

Con

My opponent is making a hasty case he is saying that one a vegetable cannot be a fruit, two all Grains are fruit, and three that if the former are true then Corn cannot be a vegetable. But because of the definitions I have provided and the Authoritive evidence from the book "Biological and Elementary chemistry" . Corn is still a plant and being a that we eat, makes it by definition a vegetable. Also the statement that Corn is a grain and fruit is irrelvant in this argument truely only his first contention is important because only if (as he claims) a Corn is truely only a fruit then can he win this debate. Another thing he says is that Corn is a grain and a fruit but he DID NOT say in his second argument that this is always so as he claims. But we can question many things in his argument. One thing is that he has a notion that if a fruit cannot be vegetable, this is untrue. My opponent contends nutritional value has nothing to due with whether a Corn is a fruit/grain or vegetable but we must realize that they were the first people to come up with the term vegetable. Also we must also realize that my opponent has only meet the BoP that Corn is a grain and a fruit. He has done little to no contending on the issue of whether or not Corn is a vegetable.
My opponent in order to win this debate must show that Corn is indeed not a vegetable. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
DanT

Pro

Corn is Fruit from a plant. Corn is the reproductive part of a Plant, thus it's a fruit. Grain is also known as caryopsis, which is a dry fruit. I have already stated this in round 1.

In regards to food, the parts of a plant can be separated into two main categories;
1.) Vegetables
2.) Fruit

Botanically a fruit comes from the reproductive part of the plant.
There is no botanical definition of a vegetable, however botanists consider a vegetable as anything not a fruit.


In regards to cultural definitions, it depends on your culture. Some may call it a fruit, whereas others call it a vegetable.
We can't go by cultural definitions, because this is a debate, not a negotiation.


In regards to culinary definition for fruit depending on whether it is served in a savory dish (a vegetable), or as a sweet dish or desserts(a fruit). The classifications do not always match the botanically correct ones.


When my opponent called a tomato both a fruit and a vegetable he was using the Culinary definition.

The culinary definition has 7 main categories;

Leafy vegetables

    1. Fruit Vegetables
    2. Fruit Vegetables
    3. Flowery Vegetables
    4. Podded Vegetables
    5. Bulb & Stem Vegetables
    6. Root Vegetables
    7. Sea Vegetables

However using this definition Yellow Corn(Sweat Corn) would be a Fruit, and other corn such as popping corn and corn meal would neither be a Fruit nor a vegetable.

Thus the same circumstances for tomatoes do not apply to corn.

http://www.ehow.com...

If you noticed this debate is in the science category, not the Society category, nor the Health category. Therefore culinary definitions, and Cultural definitions, don't apply. It has to be a scientific definition.

The horticultural (science of cultivating) differences between a vegetable and a Fruit is;

A vegetable is a herbaceous plant cultivated for edible stems, leaves, and roots.

Some people think rhubarb is a fruit, because it is used to make pies. But, rhubarb is a vegetable according to the botanical definition.


A fruit is the edible part of the plant that contains the seeds.

So your eggplant, tomato, cucumber and zucchini are fruits.

http://www.comevisit.com...

Let's Recap;

Scientific Definitions

  • Horticulturally a Grain, and not a vegetable
  • Botanically a Fruit, and not a vegetable

Unscientific Definition

  • Culturally varies
  • Culinarally neither

Sterasmas

Con

I would like to address the fact that this argument my opponent makes is not based in horticulture but in biology. So consider this, is the fruit apart of the plant if it is I win this debate. This clear from my contentions and My opponent has STILL only shown us that Corn is a grain and a fruit or a dry fruit as he likes to call it. Notice how he says parts of a plant, so what he argues is that Corn cannot be a plant because it is part of a plant but this is evidently wrong so inorder for my opponent to have won this debate he should have show us that Maize, not just Corn in of itself being established as part of this debate in the last sentence, was not a vegetable. Horticulture is not a science. Biology would be the correct basis for this debate.

Voters;
My opponent has not meet the BoP. He has not scratched my contention that Corn can be a fruit, vegetable, and grain. For these reasons there can be no vote but the Neg. today!
Debate Round No. 4
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by miketiger 1 year ago
miketiger
bitches all corn is a grain
Posted by mariahjane 2 years ago
mariahjane
Peanuts aren't a meat. They're a meat substitute.
Posted by Mr.Infidel 2 years ago
Mr.Infidel
Interesting debate that I learned from. Arguments go to pro because he defended the position that corn is both grain and a vegetable whereas con falsely accused dant of contradicting himself, where he just proved that there isn't any contradiction at all. Sources also go to pro for the awesome diagram and lack of sources from the con side.
Moreover, I could have taken conduct from con and grammar from con, but decided not to.

Great debate :-)
Posted by Buckethead31594 2 years ago
Buckethead31594
Everyone knows that corn is just a genetically deformed banana:

http://s1.static.gotsmile.net...
Posted by Kethen 2 years ago
Kethen
I agree with Ore. Plus its how well you argue not whether or not you are right. I mean it matters if you are right but it is more important on how well you prove it. Con didn't do very well at that even though technically in some ways his definition was correct.
Posted by Ore_Ele 2 years ago
Ore_Ele
regarding definitions, since no definition was presented at the beginning, we are free to accept whatever definition seems the most legit. To do that, I accepted the definition that is most inline with common usage. Common usage distinguishes veggies from fruits and grains. For example, common usage says that an Apple is not a "vegetable," though by Con's definition it would be. As such, I viewed that definition to be rather far from common usage and found Pro's definition to be more adequate.
Posted by wiploc 2 years ago
wiploc
You didn't prove that it was an animal or a mineral, Dan, which leaves it as a vegetable.

Had you put in your opening post that you wanted to debate that it was a fruit as opposed to a vegetable, then you'd have an argument. Not necessarily a winning argument, but still an argument of some power. But you did not establish that as the subject matter of the debate.

You don't get to invite somebody to debate one thing, and then, once he accepts, say, "No, here's what the debate is really about!"
Posted by DanT 2 years ago
DanT
I did too prove that it was not a vegetable. I proved that according to Horticulturalists, Botanists, and cooks it is not a vegetable.
Posted by wiploc 2 years ago
wiploc
RFD:

Neither side could prove the other's definition to be wrong. Both definitions are legitimate for some uses. Pro had the burden of proof to show that corn is not a vegetable; but, corn is legitimately called a vegetable except in the specific context of distinguishing the fruit part of the vegetable from the rest of the vegetable. Arguments to Con.

Pro didn't introduce his definition until after Con had accepted the debate. Thus, Con has as much right to be pissed at Pro's game of gotcha as if Con had set up a debate and Pro had accepted the debate just to make a semantical argument. Conduct to Con.
Posted by DanT 2 years ago
DanT
Damn I meant to say rhubarb is a vegetable according to the horticultural definition.
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by Mr.Infidel 2 years ago
Mr.Infidel
DanTSterasmasTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Please see comments for full analysis.
Vote Placed by Buckethead31594 2 years ago
Buckethead31594
DanTSterasmasTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro's excellent use of sources won him this debate, in my opinion.
Vote Placed by Kethen 2 years ago
Kethen
DanTSterasmasTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro did it all. He did have on his side the fact that corn is not a vegetable but Con never really organized a good rebuttal. Pro also refuted Con's definition and I don't think he really noticed... but I don't know.
Vote Placed by Man-is-good 2 years ago
Man-is-good
DanTSterasmasTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro could have hindered himself by not providing a definition, but his definition, as instituted by the chairman of the department of horticulture at Cornell University Dr. Marvin P. Pritts", overrides Con's shallow attempt at a semantical argument (i.e. (1) Vegetables are food that are used as food; corn is used as food; therefore corn is a vegetable). Con failed to note the difference between grains and vegetables and his apparent use of the culinary standards IS irrelevant in the debate.
Vote Placed by Ore_Ele 2 years ago
Ore_Ele
DanTSterasmasTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro made accurate arguments that Corn is a grain (seeing as it is used in making bourbon whiskey, a grain alcohol, that pretty much seals it). Con got focused on distictions between a fruit and a grain. Those don't matter, since both are not veggies. For conduct, I HATE when people tell me how to vote, I can read it for myself, thanks.
Vote Placed by wiploc 2 years ago
wiploc
DanTSterasmasTied
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Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 2 years ago
16kadams
DanTSterasmasTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Wow pro did really well. Even thougn cons resopnses where short they where well thought out statements, so he gets scources.