The Instigator
Jklee
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Beginner
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points

Corruption Must be Needed

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Beginner
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/14/2012 Category: Economics
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 20,984 times Debate No: 25609
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (17)
Votes (1)

 

Jklee

Pro

Hey, first time debater here.

First round is simply accepting the challenge. The next three rounds is where we make our arguements.

I'll make my argument when it's accepted
Beginner

Con

I accept. State your arguments.
Debate Round No. 1
Jklee

Pro

Alright beginniger, look forward to the debate

Corruption in the world must always be needed in the world. People will argue that corruption, whether it's in government or any other section, must be stopped. Corruption does hurt the General population as people do seek to gain money and power for there own gain like former Administrator of General Services Martha N. Johnson. Yet corruption has always existed and in a sense helped the United States. Andrew Jackson's 'spoil systems' argued political loyalty in exchange for positions. While this may be immoral, it does have a good side. The government, if played right, can get a lot accomplished when there is little obstacles standing in the way. We see today the how hard it is for Republicans and Democrats to even talk about a compromise and how they refuse to give in the other side to the point of a government shut down risk."FDR replaced the Judical branch with loyal supporters to enable his laws to be passed.

Corruption is a cycle in the world of politics and business. You can even say its a 'necessary evil'. It keeps the government and business stable at times. While certain individuals do pocket funds for personal gain, that's when it's time to control it. Corruption can become ramped and actually severely damage the nation and render it ineffective like we see in Afghanistan.

If we tried to complete stop corruption, it could never be done. While it does have negative effects, it is a nessesary part of the world of Politics and Government and it can be good depending how it's done.
"
Beginner

Con

Corruption - moral perversion; depravity
Must - to be obliged or bound to by an imperative requirement; to be under the necessity to; need to

Corruption, while possibly beneficial at times, is not an imperative requirement to anything. Computers are not ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to communication. Clothes are not ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to survival. Toilets aren't ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to excretion. These 'necessities', while unnecessary, are crucial to practicality and efficiency. Corruption is not.

Corruption is one of the key factors in provoking dissent and rebellions among people and nations. Nations that have an excess of corruption sport low standards of living and high rates of dissatisfaction in its people.

India exemplifies this.
A report done in Washington University very neatly and systematically churns out the 'hard facts' of corruption.
It would be prudent to glaze through at least a part of the report's contents. To save time, I will place some of the report's findings here:
There are no sectors in India which doesn't have major corruption scandals.

"Health sector: In 2008, World Bank said it had uncovered serious acts of corruption in its five health
projects in India amounting to $500 million."

"Police sector: Indian police is largely inefficient and unreformed. The police act of 1861 has remained
unchanged over the past 150 years."

"Telecom sector: A Raja was recently sacked after a CAG report said his ministry sold 2G licenses below
market prices costing India nearly $40 billion dollars."

"Software Services: The founder of Satyam Co, one of the top service firms in India admitted he had
falsely inflated profits for years and resigned in Jan 2009"

"In July 2008 The Washington Post reported that nearly a fourth of the 540 Indian Parliament members
faced criminal charges including human trafficking, immigration rackets, embezzlement, rape and even
murder."

"Defence sector: In the 1980"s, the then Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi and several other officials were
accused of receiving kickbacks from Swedish arms manufacturer AB Bofors for winning a bid to supply
India with 400 howitzers."

"Judiciary: In Jan 02, S.P Bharucha, then India's chief justice said 20% of the higher judiciary might be
corrupt. As of feb 2006, 33635 cases were pending in the the Supreme court and more than 3 million
cases were pending in high courts."

"The history of independent India is rampant with cases of political corruption:
Jeep scandal (1948), Mudgal case (1951), Mundra deals (1957-58), Malaviya Sirajuddin scandal (1963), Pratap Singh Kairon case (1963) to name some early few. As Indian economy grows at a rapid pace, the stakes have got higher and the money involved in scams have blown up to gargantuan proportions."

http://students.washington.edu...

India's corruption extracts money from the people, steals funds from philanthropic organizations and serve only to enrich the powerful. The people are forced to live in extremely poor conditions.
An article by author Geoff Hiscock, published by CNN in 2007, wrote about this issue:
Nearly 40 percent of India's 1.2 billion people must get by on less than a dollar a day, according to the World Bank. There is widespread child-labor. Nearly half of the children under 3 years of age are malnourished. Poor air and water quality, deteriorated educational system and low standards of living exist in abundance. It is common for people to in essence 'respect' the actions of others. Spitting and urinating in the streets is not uncommon (especially spitting). In 2007, during the 60th anniversary of independence, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh called child malnutrition a 'national shame' and, in the same speech, pushed for increased efforts against the detrimental amount of poverty.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in...
http://www.cnn.com...

India has shown the world the results of excess corruption. A chasm opens between rich and poor. Living conditions are disgusting and perilous.

While only having had to prove that corruption is NOT a 'Must be Needed' evil, I believe I've exceeded my requirements by further proving that corruption not only unnecessary but extremely harmful.
Debate Round No. 2
Jklee

Pro

Corruption in the world must always be needed in the world. People will argue that corruption, whether it's in government or any other section, must be stopped. Corruption does hurt the General population as people do seek to gain money and power for there own gain like former Administrator of General Services Martha N. Johnson. Yet corruption has always existed and in a sense helped the United States. Andrew Jackson's 'spoil systems' argued political loyalty in exchange for positions. While this may be immoral, it does have a good side. The government, if played right, can get a lot accomplished when there is little obstacles standing in the way. We see today the how hard it is for Republicans and Democrats to even talk about a compromise and how they refuse to give in the other side to the point of a government shut down risk."FDR replaced the Judical branch with loyal supporters to enable his laws to be passed.

Corruption is a cycle in the world of politics and business. You can even say its a 'necessary evil'. It keeps the government and business stable at times. While certain individuals do pocket funds for personal gain, that's when it's time to control it. Corruption can become ramped and actually severely damage the nation and render it ineffective like we see in Afghanistan.

If we tried to complete stop corruption, it could never be done. While it does have negative effects, it is amne
"
Beginner

Con

My opponent has not forwarded any new arguments and has, instead, reiterated his the one he used last round. I will, however, proceed to disseminate and rebut some of my opponent's more self-defeating statements.

"Corruption does hurt the General population as people do seek to gain money and power for there own gain like former Administrator of General Services Martha N. Johnson. Yet corruption has always existed and in a sense helped the United States."
My opponent, in his very own words, has named corruption a harm to the general population and people. I'm sorry, but when was the last time you've heard that giving more money and power to one person or political entity is absolutely necessary? The fact that it exists does not make it a necessity.

"While certain individuals do pocket funds for personal gain, that's when it's time to control it. Corruption can become ramped and actually severely damage the nation and render it ineffective like we see in Afghanistan."
I'm delighted that you'd further support my case with your statements. The fact that it needs to be controlled when it gets out of hand also serves to further augment my arguments.

It must also be mentioned that many of my opponent's statements
("While this [corruption] may be immoral, it does have a good side." "Corruption in the world must always be needed in the world." "Corruption is a cycle in the world of politics and business. You can even say its a 'necessary evil'" etc.)
are not supplemented with any factual or historical support. They are, therefore, completely unfounded. It is similar to me saying: 'My Toilet grew hairy legs and walked away.' which is absolutely true because I said so.

My case stands firmly above my opponent's compelling lack of proof.
Debate Round No. 3
Jklee

Pro

My opponent has dismantled my argument, and due to lack of resources, I am unable to to provide a counter point.
Beginner

Con

Thank you pro for bearing with me on my first debate

We now hand this over to the voters.
(:
Debate Round No. 4
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Jklee 4 years ago
Jklee
And I thought you were a beginner >.>

I looked into India to see if I could use anything, and found obsolutely nothing to help my arguement. Well I enjoyed the first time debate, learned a lot.

See ya "Beginner" :)
Posted by Beginner 4 years ago
Beginner
"Corruption can be beneficial"
Corruption benefits the corrupted. Therefore it CAN BE beneficial. (: Kudos
Posted by Beginner 4 years ago
Beginner
I don't exactly see outsourcing as morally perverted or fraudulent. It is economically pragmatic, practical and absolutely within legal bounds. We can't have the government control how business owners want to run their business. Business owners can outsource, that's one of the things that make us a country of free enterprise. Furthermore, outsourcing is not done by the president (although Romney probably does plenty of it. :) but by business owners. The worst the president can do is allow it to happen, which is what he SHOULD do. Such a strict regulation against outsourcing would not be allowed to pass. Many US businesses would be harmed, simultaneously forced to shut down. It'll definitely cut wayyy more jobs than outsourcing ever will.
Laws keeping the business sector under control is in no way related to corruption.
Go to India. You HAVE to pay money to get jobs done faster. India has sacrificed lives, living conditions and morality to 'get the job done faster'.
Posted by Jklee 4 years ago
Jklee
You are right that's"Corruption can be beneficial" I can't get any good source of information for a bios reasons. I google the good things about corruption and the closet thing I get is blogs and examples. Or how to fight corruption -_-

But yea this debate was over before it even started. I have nothing for the final round, theirs just nothing I can type.
Posted by Jklee 4 years ago
Jklee
O my freak'n god I'm such an idiot. I pasted the wrong debate. (Not like it was better but it was something" Here's the new text even thou this is I the Cons favor *sigh*

Mark Twain said "To much of anything is bad for you" He is right. To much running, sleeping, and even breathing is bad for you. Same applies to corruption.

However an ancient proverb states "There are two sides to every coin". In other words it means their are two sides to everything.

Corruption: Dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power

Corruption, when most people hear it, automatically assume it means "Fraud, bribery, back door deals, embezzling funds, etc, but there is more to then that. Corruption can also help fuel economic growth. While to most people this is unthinkable, it is true.

Take the United States for example. We have laws and regulations to keep businesses under control. If every company literally followed USA laws piece by piece, the US economy would become very strained. We already see this developing.

Both presidential candidates (Obama and Rommy) outsourced jobs, reducing the job market in America. This is where corruption comes into play. We tend to think corruption is a bad thing and used only for personal gain. In a sense it's true, but also leaves a positive impact. Agents of companies bribe others to curve around the many regulations and laws set in place in order to get the job done faster. While technically this is illegal, it gets the job done faster then the legal process.
Posted by Beginner 4 years ago
Beginner
Now if the debate topic were "Corruption can be beneficial", things would be easier. As it stands right now, the topic is lopsided in con's favor...
Posted by Beginner 4 years ago
Beginner
I can empathize...I tried doing your side of the argument in my head and I couldn't do it because I was able to negate anything I came up with...
Posted by Jklee 4 years ago
Jklee
God this harder then I thought. Turning a weak point into a strong one is harder then I thought in this case. And only six freck'n hours left, ugh.
Posted by Jklee 4 years ago
Jklee
So did I. When I read it I thought, maybe he forgot the T and space, and, This Guy"

I really did think you trying to tell me Get off His cock which gave a a WTF kind of feeling XD

School must of been rough for him
Posted by Beginner 4 years ago
Beginner
I interpreted Geoff Hiscock as Get off His cock.......his parents must be sick psychopaths
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 4 years ago
16kadams
JkleeBeginnerTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: FF