The Instigator
THEVIRUS
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points
The Contender
Reni-1_3
Con (against)
Losing
3 Points

Corvo Vs. Connor

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
THEVIRUS
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/27/2013 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,931 times Debate No: 30791
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (2)

 

THEVIRUS

Pro

This will be structured the same way as my last attempt at this, which Reni-1_3 has asked me to repeat in an actual debate.

http://www.debate.org...

The rules are stated in the link, as is the itinerary of this debate
Reni-1_3

Con

I accept this challenge, and thank my opponent for this opportunity.

My statement is that although Corvo may be a superior assassin, I believe Connor would win in a hands down 1v1 fight.

Let the debates began. Good Luck opponent.
Debate Round No. 1
THEVIRUS

Pro

Corvo Attano is the superior assassin. Stealth is his friend, defeat is his only true enemy. Corvo went from royal guard to dirt and worked his way back up by murdering those against him, even if it meant infiltrating the most secure facility in the land. On his own.

FIRST I will state why Corvo is superior

THEN I will state why Connor is inferior

1. Corvo has great weaponry:

The knife he uses is just as powerful as any hand to hand weapon of Connor's. Also, in my opinion, Corvo's elegant blade looks cooler than that of Connor.

Long range Corvo has a gun(more mid range) and a crossbow. The crossbow can defeat the guns of AC3 using not just the regular arrow, not just the sleep dart, but also the bolt specifically designed to catch people on fire.

For special weapons Corvo has grenades and springrazor traps. These are trip mines that explode into shards that pierce and kill the victim

2. Attacks:

Both games have the slo mo slice, and AC does have a wider variety. However, the same ones are often repeated over and over with a random one thrown in every once and a while. Corvo does have the superior rush in and kill style, but he wouldn't even know where Corvo was. Corvo's air attacks, head removals, and special one character only strikes are superior to the double slash of Connor.

On the chance that this battle is in the open-

3. Powers:

Corvo has many magic powers. His rat swarm or wind blast could do enough damage, but lets imagine Connor (miraculously) dodges it. Corvo can blink behind Connor or blink back to the shadows.

Using possession he can then slip behind Connor, and if Connor realizes there will be far too many rats to try and kill. One trick is to attach a springrazor to a rat, then convince it to commit suicide to help Corvo

4. Blocking:

Connor does have superior counter attacks. If only he lives that long

CONNOR'S DOWNFALL

He can be seen through walls and his best strategy is "CHARGE!"

I will post a depiction of the battle in the entertainment forum later tonight because I am low on time and already wrote too much to rewrite...

Over to you!
Reni-1_3

Con

Thank you opponent for great points!

I will use the same order points as my opponent did, starting with weaponry.

Ratonhnhak""'"'":ton Kenway, or more commonly known as Connor Kenway, had a just as bad hardship as Corvo. His Native American village was burned at the hands of his father, killing his mother in the process. Connor not only gained revenge, but defeated many Templar's in the process, as his predecessors have.

Connor's armory is much more sophisticated than Corvo's. Corvo may have a knife, but Connor has a sword, knife, hidden blade (which can be wielded as a dagger as well), large weapons such as battle axes and long-swords, battle-clubs AND a tomahawk. As for long range he has a bow, poison darts, rope darts, pistol (x2), and can pick up certain weapons like the musket. Connor also has his own assortment of trip-mines and traps, as he is a hunter, he also knows how to use these effectively.

I would like to focus on only a few weapons however.

(this link shows most weapons and some awesome killing action with those weapons)

Tomahawk- His primary weapon. Used in close combat and abrupt deaths, might I add. Usually dual wielded with his hidden blade.

Swords- These have been in AC since the beginning, and because of this, sword wielding is in Connors genes. The downfall, they can be disarmed, but Connor, carrying multiple weapons, could easily pull out his tomahawk or hidden blades and continue battle in only a breath. Corvo's knife also may look more bad-A than anything Connor has, but Connor has superior fighting capabilities with bladed weapons, sword and knife alike.

Pistol and bow- Connor can carry two pistols if he wished, although he would only need one. Both pistols carried can have multiple barrels, therefore defeating the purpose of reloading. Besides, Connor is a good shot, I doubt he would need to reload until after his enemy is defeated. His bow is carried with him at all times. Connor can draw an arrow and shoot it faster than Corvo could reload his crossbow and fire.

Trip-mines/traps- As Corvo can do, Connor can set these wherever he pleases and wait for an unsuspecting enemy to step in.

ROPE DARTS- Probably the second most bada$$ weapon in AC history. Connor is able to hang enemies from trees, hide in bushes, rope someone in, and assassinate them, and finally, Connor can use these rope darts to his advantage in a battle, by roping an enemy and forcing him down to the ground and them tomahawking that enemy to death.
^( ) (this video does contain foul language)

For the matter of killcams, I cannot argue that as it is true, many of these special kills are repeated as my opponent stated. As for air attacks, Connor can do that as well. He can even kill two enemies at once when jumping from a building into an unsuspecting crowd of enemies.

Powers, Connor has no magical incantations he can perform. In his defense, he roamed Boston and New York when rats were quite prevalent, (even though they don't show often in the game) historically speaking Connor would presumably not be scared of a few infested rats. I do believe Connor would dodge the wind blast for his reaction is superior as well. If Corvo were to blink behind Connor, surely he would block any physical attack made, (by that time Corvo's magical ability would be mostly depleted if all of the assessed magical abilities were used at that time) because one of Connors counters is behind his back.
^( ) @ about 0:47 this is shown.

As for the possession thing, well if he were to possess a rat to commit suicide, Corvo would then leave himself vulnerable after possessing the rat. Connor could easily dodge a suicidal rat for his running speed is superior to Corvo's. Where Corvo could use blink, Connor would still outrun, out-climb, and out-maneuver Corvo. I would assume Corvo depends on his Blink ability a little too much, which is a weakness Connor would presumably notice.

What good does it to be seen through walls? The wall is in your way and the only way to get to Connor wold be to sneak around or over that wall, and well that would make some noise and Connor is surely going to notice even if he can't see Corvo. Also, in an open battle, Connor has smoke bombs, and I'm sure both characters could see through this thick smoke, but Corvo would not realize right away where Connor would be after throwing this smoke bomb, giving Connor a slight edge.

Connor is obviously the superior warrior, because he IS a warrior, and his past scream assassin. Even if his best subject is fighting over assassinating, Connor has a well developed system of fighting. When taking on one enemy, Connor can easily assassinate with a rope dart or hidden blades, shoot with his pistols, or easily kill with a simple counterattack. In a group situation Connor can easily pick off a few, run to hide or climb a building, and then pick off the enemies one by one using trip-mines, his bow or by simply assassinating them with his hidden blades. He does not need magical abilities to defeat his enemy. Although if he had magical abilities, he wouldn't need to depend on them to defeat his enemies, and would be smart enough to conservatively use all his fighting techniques.

Good luck to my opponent!
Debate Round No. 2
THEVIRUS

Pro

Tomahawk- His primary weapon. Used in close combat and abrupt deaths, might I add. Usually dual wielded with his hidden blade.

Notice that in a lot of these cases he only dual weilds as two repeated strikes, that are at close to the same speed Corvo attacks twice.

Swords- These have been in AC since the beginning, and because of this, sword wielding is in Connors genes. The downfall, they can be disarmed, but Connor, carrying multiple weapons, could easily pull out his tomahawk or hidden blades and continue battle in only a breath. Corvo's knife also may look more bad-A than anything Connor has, but Connor has superior fighting capabilities with bladed weapons, sword and knife alike.

As I said earlier, Corvo could dodge blows just like Connor. Plus, if Connor had to pull out a new weapon he's be dead. Corvo could blink up to him (covering all ground between them) and slit Connor's thoat before the weapon was drawn.

Pistol and bow- Connor can carry two pistols if he wished, although he would only need one. Both pistols carried can have multiple barrels, therefore defeating the purpose of reloading. Besides, Connor is a good shot, I doubt he would need to reload until after his enemy is defeated. His bow is carried with him at all times. Connor can draw an arrow and shoot it faster than Corvo could reload his crossbow and fire.

Corvo can switch to a pistol immediately after shooting his crossbow, and Corvo can keep his sword out and shoot/reload with one hand. Connor is a good shot with a gun... because the guns were modified for the game. In real life those pistols could hardly shoot a barrel sitting a few meters away, even with an expert marksman looking down the sights. I will let you keep the acurate guns though, because this is game only, not real life.

Trip-mines/traps- As Corvo can do, Connor can set these wherever he pleases and wait for an unsuspecting enemy to step in.

Corvo has no need to just walk/run when he can blink. The only time he would walk or run was if he was so close to Connor a trip mine explosion would kill both of them. And while the springrazor can be thrown instantly, a trap must be set up.

ROPE DARTS- Probably the second most bada$$ weapon in AC history. Connor is able to hang enemies from trees, hide in bushes, rope someone in, and assassinate them, and finally, Connor can use these rope darts to his advantage in a battle, by roping an enemy and forcing him down to the ground and them tomahawking that enemy to death.
^( ) (this video does contain foul language)

This is much like a gun, only more visible and with less range than a bow. The rope dart must be thrown with a full arm motion, whereas the gun is just the pull of a trigger. And yet you expect more success with this?

For the matter of killcams, I cannot argue that as it is true, many of these special kills are repeated as my opponent stated. As for air attacks, Connor can do that as well. He can even kill two enemies at once when jumping from a building into an unsuspecting crowd of enemies.

Too bad there is only one Corvo, and in a 1 on 1 street battle I wouldn't call him unsuspecting. You also forget that blinking is faster than parkour, and Corvo would see Connor climbing and blink onto the roof before Connor even got there.

Powers, Connor has no magical incantations he can perform. In his defense, he roamed Boston and New York when rats were quite prevalent, (even though they don't show often in the game) historically speaking Connor would presumably not be scared of a few infested rats.

You forget this is a bloodthirsty swarm, not just a few. Getting away from ground level is pretty much the only way to escape them.

I do believe Connor would dodge the wind blast for his reaction is superior as well.

If Connor can get out of Corvo's range of vision, he can dodge it. If not, he will at least be stunned and thrown backwards. This could break bones if Connor was in front of a wall.

If Corvo were to blink behind Connor, surely he would block any physical attack made, (by that time Corvo's magical ability would be mostly depleted if all of the assessed magical abilities were used at that time) because one of Connors counters is behind his back.

^( ) @ about 0:47 this is shown.

This is controversial. AC3 is a thrid person game, and the player can see behind Connor and make him parry behind himself. Blinking is the least draining ability, and Connor cannot actually see behind himself. He may here enemy footsteps, but blinking doesn't make noise.

As for the possession thing, well if he were to possess a rat to commit suicide, Corvo would then leave himself vulnerable after possessing the rat. Connor could easily dodge a suicidal rat for his running speed is superior to Corvo's. Where Corvo could use blink, Connor would still outrun, out-climb, and out-maneuver Corvo. I would assume Corvo depends on his Blink ability a little too much, which is a weakness Connor would presumably notice.

Corvo does rely on blinking a lot, but he is also older and thus less athletic than Connor. The possesion can also be used against Connor, and (this is cheap so i wont count it) but Corvo could slow time and make Connor shoot himself (last kill in the video)

What good does it to be seen through walls? The wall is in your way and the only way to get to Connor wold be to sneak around or over that wall, and well that would make some noise and Connor is surely going to notice even if he can't see Corvo.

Not if Corvo is far enough away to not be heard but still be able to blink.

Also, in an open battle, Connor has smoke bombs, and I'm sure both characters could see through this thick smoke, but Corvo would not realize right away where Connor would be after throwing this smoke bomb, giving Connor a slight edge.

Accept Connor can't tell if Corvo moves in the smoke. Corvo could blink out soundlessly while Connor runs in, and Corvo could use his dark vision to see Connor and shoot him with a crossbow bolt.

Connor is obviously the superior warrior, because he IS a warrior, and his past screams assassin.

He screams warrior though. Corvo could use his powers to get just far enogh away that this becomes a stealthy, jump-out-and-kill battle.

Even if his best subject is fighting over assassinating, Connor has a well developed system of fighting. When taking on one enemy, Connor can easily assassinate with a rope dart or hidden blades, shoot with his pistols, or easily kill with a simple counterattack. In a group situation Connor can easily pick off a few, run to hide or climb a building, and then pick off the enemies one by one using trip-mines, his bow or by simply assassinating them with his hidden blades. He does not need magical abilities to defeat his enemy. Although if he had magical abilities, he wouldn't need to depend on them to defeat his enemies, and would be smart enough to conservatively use all his fighting techniques.


All I will say is that Connor faces poorer enemies than Corvo. If you watch starting about 1:16 of the first vid in Con's last argument, the opponent behind him stands there until his friend is dead. Corvo's enemies will all swing at once, and i know from playing the game that at some moments it is impossible to attack someone in the drawback stage of a sword lunge without getting hit by someone already mid-swing. Corvo also has to face enemies with a teleportation method similar to blinking.

Good luck to my opponent!



Good luck to you too...


Connor is gonna need it!


Reni-1_3

Con

Thank you for the response, it would seem like Corvo is the clear winner. Since we cannot yet have these two figures actually battle, I would like to show what the human intellect is capable of when they seem to be in a near impossible battle. I will be basing this off the generalization that Connor has the superior intellect, Corvo is the more brute assassin, a royal guard, but not the smarter fighter. Let me give you an example of how an intellect can achieve anything. When you think Superman, you think unstoppable, no human could stop him right? Take Batman for example, he has won on mulitple occasion with the Man of Steel. He found his weakness, and used it to his advantage.

If Corvo has a weakness, and he does, (few people have beaten Dishonored without dying) Connor would find it, activate it, and execute it. I must concede that Connor couldn't beat Corvo head on, but that isn't what Connor would be trying to do anyway. Connor is the legimate assassin, he would be the assassin in the fight, not the warrior. The body doesn't win the battle, the mind does.



Thanks to my opponent and to the readers for taking the time to read this over.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by CianoKnoxLycan 2 years ago
CianoKnoxLycan
Stating that assassins creed is a 3rd person game and you can see all around you, and the weapons have unrealistic range and accuracy compared to a real working musket, flintlock and hand-cannon, corvo should get the advantage of weapon upgrades. when you said Connor could attack before Corvo reloaded his crossbow, with full upgrade the crossbow auto reloads and can fire 2 bolts per second if trigger is hit fast enough. and Connor would not be able to dodge wind blast if he was in visible range of corvo. it is a strong gust of wind travelling at high speeds that could cause injury just from the wind and not impact of a surface if the victim is close enough. Also Connor cannot block if corvo blinks behind him, he is travelling at supersonic speeds and can quickly slash connor and if connor is lucky corvo can just stop time and end the fight there, or possess Connor to kill himself
Posted by THEVIRUS 4 years ago
THEVIRUS
"Connor is obviously the superior warrior, because he IS a warrior... Even if his best subject is fighting over assassinating, Connor has a well developed system of fighting."

I quote from Con's argument again, in round 3...

"Since we cannot yet have these two figures actually battle, I would like to show what the human intellect is capable of when they seem to be in a near impossible battle. I will be basing this off the generalization that Connor has the superior intellect, Corvo is the more brute assassin, a royal guard, but not the smarter fighter. Let me give you an example of how an intellect can achieve anything. When you think Superman, you think unstoppable, no human could stop him right? Take Batman for example, he has won on mulitple occasion with the Man of Steel. He found his weakness, and used it to his advantage.

If Corvo has a weakness, and he does, (few people have beaten Dishonored without dying) Connor would find it, activate it, and execute it. I must concede that Connor couldn't beat Corvo head on, but that isn't what Connor would be trying to do anyway. Connor is the legimate assassin, he would be the assassin in the fight, not the warrior. The body doesn't win the battle, the mind does."

I would like to call bullsh!t on that argument. He easily contradicts himself. I would also like to highlight in that last section:

"If Corvo has a weakness, and he does, (few people have beaten Dishonored without dying)..."

Again, I had already mentioned Corvo faces much stronger enemies, who actually attempt to kill him!

Of course people die more!!!

Note, this is merely pointing out what Con used as evidence, not adding extra arguments. I had already discredited him, yet he still said the same thing! Da fuq?!
Posted by OberHerr 4 years ago
OberHerr
I'll definitely read this later.
Posted by THEVIRUS 4 years ago
THEVIRUS
My argument wasn't that Corvo was better physically, but that he would win. Those are two very different things
Posted by THEVIRUS 4 years ago
THEVIRUS
Oh my fuking god you are so lucky there aren't more rounds. You said Connor had intellect while Corvo was the brute warrior, AND CONTRADICTED YOURSELF!!! You previously said that Corvo was the stealthy assassin and Connor was the fighter and warrior! And now you are winning?!?!?! This is FUKED UP dude.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by OberHerr 4 years ago
OberHerr
THEVIRUSReni-1_3Tied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro not only proved that Corvo would kill Connor is a st right out fight, but Con even conceded to it. I don't see how Pro didn't win..
Vote Placed by BigSky 4 years ago
BigSky
THEVIRUSReni-1_3Tied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: I felt that Con's final argument using intellect was a tide turner. Up until then, it was obvious that Corvo could beat him physically, but the Batman v. Superman argument was very true. The superior intellect usually trumps the fighting capability in the end. This was a well done debate by both sides. Conduct goes to pro because there was contradiction on cons part, I do think that connor would find a way to win.