The Instigator
Lightning-2-the-Storm
Pro (for)
Losing
18 Points
The Contender
proflandsurveyor
Con (against)
Winning
24 Points

Couples of the same sex should be able to get married, and be recognized by the State.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/8/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,703 times Debate No: 2494
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (13)
Votes (14)

 

Lightning-2-the-Storm

Pro

Would you like the government to tell you that you are not allowed to be heterosexual? They are not allowed to keep people from practicing whatever religion you believe in, and they should not be allowed to keep them from doing whatever they believe in, whether it is centered around religion or anything else. I'm not saying people should be allowed to do ANYTHING they want, but being homosexual affects nobody but themselves and their partner.
I am not homosexual. I am also not Jewish, but I have Jewish friends, and what someone believes does not matter to me. Just because someone believes differently than most people does not mean they are wrong. They should not be judged or discriminated against because they think differently than the majority of the people. You are not told by other people or by the government that you are not allowed to be heterosexual, and neither you nor the government should be allowed to tell people they can't be homosexual.
proflandsurveyor

Con

Genesis 19:1-13 (English Standard Version)
The two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed himself with his face to the earth 2and said, "My lords, please turn aside to your servant's house and spend the night and wash your feet. Then you may rise up early and go on your way." They said, "No; we will spend the night in the town square." But he pressed them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house. And he made them a feast and baked unleavened bread, and they ate.
But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house. And they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them." Lot went out to the men at the entrance, shut the door after him, and said, "I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man. Let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please. Only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof." But they said, "Stand back!" And they said, "This fellow came to sojourn, and he has become the judge! Now we will deal worse with you than with them." Then they pressed hard against the man Lot, and drew near to break the door down. But the men reached out their hands and brought Lot into the house with them and shut the door. And they struck with blindness the men who were at the entrance of the house, both small and great, so that they wore themselves out groping for the door.

Then the men said to Lot, "Have you anyone else here? Sons-in-law, sons, daughters, or anyone you have in the city, bring them out of the place. For we are about to destroy this place, because the outcry against its people has become great before the LORD, and the LORD has sent us to destroy it."

Leviticus 18:22 (English Standard Version)
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Romans 1:24-27 (English Standard Version)
Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

1 Corinthians 6:9 (English Standard Version)
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,

Genesis 2:21-24 (English Standard Version)
So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. And the rib that the LORD God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. Then the man said, This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Matthew 19:4-6 (English Standard Version)
He answered, "Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate."

Genesis 1:27 & 28 (English Standard Version)
So God created man in his own image,in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. And God blessed them. And God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

Judges 19:22-26 (English Standard Version)
As they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, worthless fellows, surrounded the house, beating on the door. And they said to the old man, the master of the house, "Bring out the man who came into your house, that we may know him." And the man, the master of the house, went out to them and said to them, "No, my brothers, do not act so wickedly; since this man has come into my house, do not do this vile thing. Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine. Let me bring them out now. Violate them and do with them what seems good to you, but against this man do not do this outrageous thing." But the men would not listen to him. So the man seized his concubine and made her go out to them. And they knew her and abused her all night until the morning. And as the dawn began to break, they let her go. And as morning appeared, the woman came and fell down at the door of the man's house where her master was, until it was light.

Leviticus 20:13 (English Standard Version)
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Deuteronomy 23:17 (English Standard Version)
None of the daughters of Israel shall be a cult prostitute, and none of the sons of Israel shall be a cult prostitute.

1 Kings 14:24 (English Standard Version)
and there were also male cult prostitutes in the land. They did according to all the abominations of the nations that the LORD drove out before the people of Israel.

1 Kings 15:12 (English Standard Version)
He put away the male cult prostitutes out of the land and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.

1 Kings 22:46 (English Standard Version)
And from the land he exterminated the remnant of the male cult prostitutes who remained in the days of his father Asa.

2 Kings 23:7 (English Standard Version)
And he broke down the houses of the male cult prostitutes who were in the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the Asherah.

1 Timothy 1:9-10 (English Standard Version)
understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,

Jude 1:7 (English Standard Version)
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

2 Timothy 3:16 (English Standard Version)
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
Debate Round No. 1
Lightning-2-the-Storm

Pro

Lightning-2-the-Storm forfeited this round.
proflandsurveyor

Con

For some reason, my opponet did not post their argument within the allotted time. To be fair, There is some information out there that try to rebuke what I've listed. The only thing that you have to is do a search on Google for it. You can also find some websites where other people who answer what the people who try to change God's word on the subject.

For me, The Bible is very clear on this subject. Granted, I've not done a very indepth study of this but I do not see a reason to sense I am not gay and this does not affect me and because the Bible is very clear on this.
Debate Round No. 2
Lightning-2-the-Storm

Pro

Lightning-2-the-Storm forfeited this round.
proflandsurveyor

Con

Genesis 19:1-13 (English Standard Version)
The two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed himself with his face to the earth 2and said, "My lords, please turn aside to your servant's house and spend the night and wash your feet. Then you may rise up early and go on your way." They said, "No; we will spend the night in the town square." But he pressed them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house. And he made them a feast and baked unleavened bread, and they ate.
But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house. And they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them." Lot went out to the men at the entrance, shut the door after him, and said, "I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man. Let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please. Only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof." But they said, "Stand back!" And they said, "This fellow came to sojourn, and he has become the judge! Now we will deal worse with you than with them." Then they pressed hard against the man Lot, and drew near to break the door down. But the men reached out their hands and brought Lot into the house with them and shut the door. And they struck with blindness the men who were at the entrance of the house, both small and great, so that they wore themselves out groping for the door.

Then the men said to Lot, "Have you anyone else here? Sons-in-law, sons, daughters, or anyone you have in the city, bring them out of the place. For we are about to destroy this place, because the outcry against its people has become great before the LORD, and the LORD has sent us to destroy it."

Leviticus 18:22 (English Standard Version)
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Romans 1:24-27 (English Standard Version)
Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

1 Corinthians 6:9 (English Standard Version)
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,

Genesis 2:21-24 (English Standard Version)
So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. And the rib that the LORD God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. Then the man said, This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Matthew 19:4-6 (English Standard Version)
He answered, "Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate."

Genesis 1:27 & 28 (English Standard Version)
So God created man in his own image,in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. And God blessed them. And God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

Judges 19:22-26 (English Standard Version)
As they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, worthless fellows, surrounded the house, beating on the door. And they said to the old man, the master of the house, "Bring out the man who came into your house, that we may know him." And the man, the master of the house, went out to them and said to them, "No, my brothers, do not act so wickedly; since this man has come into my house, do not do this vile thing. Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine. Let me bring them out now. Violate them and do with them what seems good to you, but against this man do not do this outrageous thing." But the men would not listen to him. So the man seized his concubine and made her go out to them. And they knew her and abused her all night until the morning. And as the dawn began to break, they let her go. And as morning appeared, the woman came and fell down at the door of the man's house where her master was, until it was light.

Leviticus 20:13 (English Standard Version)
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Deuteronomy 23:17 (English Standard Version)
None of the daughters of Israel shall be a cult prostitute, and none of the sons of Israel shall be a cult prostitute.

1 Kings 14:24 (English Standard Version)
and there were also male cult prostitutes in the land. They did according to all the abominations of the nations that the LORD drove out before the people of Israel.

1 Kings 15:12 (English Standard Version)
He put away the male cult prostitutes out of the land and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.

1 Kings 22:46 (English Standard Version)
And from the land he exterminated the remnant of the male cult prostitutes who remained in the days of his father Asa.

2 Kings 23:7 (English Standard Version)
And he broke down the houses of the male cult prostitutes who were in the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the Asherah.

1 Timothy 1:9-10 (English Standard Version)
understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,

Jude 1:7 (English Standard Version)
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

2 Timothy 3:16 (English Standard Version)
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
Debate Round No. 3
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Kals 9 years ago
Kals
proflandsurveyor, I think you're an idiot. Did you not read the part of the Constitution that said we have seperation of church and state? Leave your religion out of the debate. then perhaps it would be worth listening to.
Posted by brittwaller 9 years ago
brittwaller
Exactly, batp. Hey, you should check out the new time debate that Kleptin and I are having if you haven't done so already. I thought it might interest you.

Britt
Posted by bobsatthepub 9 years ago
bobsatthepub
What a disappointing debate.
It's like good VS evil, then evil starts quoting the bible and good decides to become Amish and abandon his computer I lose interest and my weekend continues to get smaller.
Congrats understanding the bible, pity nobody asked it.
Pity Pro didn't respond, even a simple "haha, are you serious?" would have been enough to grab my vote.
Posted by inrainbows 9 years ago
inrainbows
to the con:

HOW in anyway is the bible have creditability to make laws?

It doesn't!!

Religion is a belief that people have the right to, key word belief. It in now way should create laws taking away peoples civil rights.
Posted by brittwaller 9 years ago
brittwaller
Really... all Pro had to do was respond. What a crappy debate all around.

And one thing: You quoted some of what Genesis says about the "just and righteous" Lot in regard to homosexuality. I mean, offering your virgin daughters to an angry mob is so much better than having two angels (which I'm sure had some kind of superpower) defend themselves. But the kicker is that Lot got drunk and nailed both his daughters himself later on! (Gen 19:31-38) Incest is cool, homosexuality isn't, I suppose...
Posted by HandsOff 9 years ago
HandsOff
The reason a union (between anyone) should be recognized by the state is that it is an agreement/contract between two free individuals who are of legal age to enter into such a agreement. That is the only reason needed. In this country, people are free to enter into any contract they would like as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others. I realize there are some exceptions to this rule as a result of other unjust laws-- prostitution for example. For the state not to recognize such a union because it is a violation of religious doctrine would require the state to impose and enforce a religious viewpoint rather than remain neutral.
Posted by bigdog 9 years ago
bigdog
The act of marriage comes to us through religious principles so to say religion has no principal value in the argument isn't to look at what marriage really is. I have no problem with straight or gay people doing what it is they like to do as long as it is behind closed doors either way.

All in all, it should be up to each state how they define marriage but if it is passed in a state, it should only be allowed in court houses and churches that allow it. No church should ever get sued for turning down gays getting married there.

Also, if the government said people couldn't be heterosexual the society would only last one generation so that is a very invalid argument in this debate.

Also, the government shouldn't tell anybody what or how to do anything.
Posted by friar_zero 9 years ago
friar_zero
And on the Religious front I have someobjections:

First off: Leviticus 18:22. According to one source, a word-for-word translation is:
"And with a male thou shall not lie down in beds of a woman; it is an abomination."
(The word "abomination" is a mistranslation, in terms of modern English. The Hebrew word means something like "ritually impure". Some other examples of "abominations" are: a person eating lobster, the offering of an animal which has a blemish for ritual sacrifice, a man getting a haircut or shaving his beard, or a woman wearing jeans or slacks, a person eating a cheeseburger.) This passage is normally interpreted in English as something similar to:
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination" (RSV)
That rendering would condemn all male-male sexual activity. Or, if the translators really wanted to stretch the meaning of the passage well beyond what the original Hebrew states, they might want to write a condemnation of lesbianism into the translation, as in:
"Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin. (NLT)
But it could be argued that an equally accurate rendering is:
"Men must not engage in homosexual sex while on a woman's bed; it is an abomination"
That is, homosexual activity is only condemned if it is done in the wrong location: on a woman's bed. Bible translators, scholars and individual believers debate endlessly over the precise meaning of individual passages such as this one. If people attribute multiple meanings to various verses, then only one (perhaps none) could be inerrant. We can try to compare a passage with other similar verses in the Bible in order to determine which interpretation is most likely. But, we have no absolutely reliable method of determining which interpretation is true.

Secondly, the old testament laws no longer apply to christians. If you are going to use Leviticus to condemn homosexuality then you might as well stone your unruly children as well or burn witches.
Posted by blond_guy 9 years ago
blond_guy
Lightning-2-the-Storm only had 1 argument, but to me, his opponent had 0. I think xeroxing some stuff from somewhere without even explaining why you agree with it is not an argument.
Posted by blond_guy 9 years ago
blond_guy
All he did is copy and paste some biblical sh*t.
14 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by tribefan011 8 years ago
tribefan011
Lightning-2-the-StormproflandsurveyorTied
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