The Instigator
coldto
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Jonbonbon
Con (against)
Winning
29 Points

Creationism Should Not be Taught in the Public Sphere of Education

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 7 votes the winner is...
Jonbonbon
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/10/2014 Category: Education
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 825 times Debate No: 54392
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (7)

 

coldto

Pro

Round one shall be reserved for acceptance only. Round two shall be reserved for arguments only (No rebuttal). Round Three shall be reserved for rebuttals only (No new arguments), and round four shall be reserved for closing arugments & rebuttals/ conclusion.


First of all, I want to thank my opponent for taking up this subject with me. I'm sure it will be a great challenge and enjoyable experience for both of us.

Best of luck to you!
Jonbonbon

Con

I will accept this challenge.
Debate Round No. 1
coldto

Pro

Alright, let's get started.


In this argument I will be making three major points against the teaching of Creationism in the public sphere of education:




Creationism as a Religious Belief


Secularism


Religious Diversity


















Creationism as a Religious Belief

What kind of debater would I be without starting out my argument with a fact? More specifically, a definition.


cre·a·tion·ism


noun \-shə-G6;ni-zəm\

: the belief that God created all things out of nothing as described in the Bible and that therefore the theory of evolution is incorrect [1]



Above is the definition of creationism. There are a few important things that require our attention in this definition. First of which:

: the belief that God created all things out of nothing as described in the Bible and that therefore the theory of evolution is incorrect


Well, now let's take a look at what a belief is...




be·lief

noun \bə-G2;lēf\

: a feeling of being sure that someone or something exists or that something is true [2]





I could show the definition of feelingand go my merry way down the line, but I think you get wha I'm trying to say. My point here is that creationism is a belief. Therefore, something that cannot be proven.




Yet, there is still disagreement over this matter that there is in fact evidence that creationism exists. Bur even if there was supposed evidence, there'd still be a problem with teaching it in schools.



(Before we go too much further, I will say that were not here to argue for or against the truth of creationism, merely its presence in public schools. Now for the second bit of creationism definition I would like us to examine.)



Now let us examine our second point from the definition of creationism:








: the belief that God created all things out of nothing as described in the
Bible and that therefore the theory of evolution is incorrect






Here's where we get into some dangerous waters. It can be understood that in order to accept creationism as being correct, you must also incorporate religion (specifically Christianity). Which would mean to teach creationism in public schools, you must also explain the aspect of a deity having an intervention in the process. Now youre incorporating religion into public shools, which brings me to my second point.


Secularism



The separation of church and state (or sometimes more commonly referred to as secularism) is the concept of keeping religious or church matters separated from the affairs of the state (or government). [3]




We can also see that the United States is a secular nation. [4] Which means it is not allowed to formulate a state religion (which there is none), or endorse religion in any way, shape, or form, unless it is in the name of defending the rights of practicing religion.

Here’s the problem...


Public schools receive funding from the federal government, and are therefore endorsed by the government. This means that public school are only allowed to teach secular ideas to students. Meaning, ideas that are backed by scientific evidence that do not require religion to be true. In other words, religiously neutral.


Aw shucks...looks like creationism has got a problem.


As we discussed earlier, creationism is an idea based upon belief. It must incorporate God and a religion. So it looks like creationism can’t be taught in secularist, public schools.


“But wait!” you might say. “What if we just make it optional to teach creationism in school?”

Sorry, that’s a no-go as well. Which brings us to our final point.






Religious Diversity

If religion were allowed to enter public school, then you would need to fair to all religions. Which by the way, there are at least forty-three (43) that we can identify as being separate, and that’s not counting many native beliefs that were never documented. [5]





If religious ideas can be taught in schools, then everyone must be given a fair shot, and be allowed to teach all the different religious stances of creation. And just to name a few:







Australian Aborigines

Chinese Creation

Hindu Creation

Muslim Creation

Roman Creation

Greek Creation

Yanomamo Sanema

[6]

And heck, we might as well educate students on how the Flying Spaghetti Monster came down from Pasta Heaven and served up a juicy planet for us all to live on.



But even if we did offer all of these classes, why would we want to? By the time you've paid for teacher's salary, textbooks, and other materials, you've spent a large portion of taxpayer money teaching students on a subject that should be kept in churches.


The point to be made here is that it's not the place of the schools to teach creationism, or any other religious idea. Leave that to the churches, that's why they exist. If students are interested enough a creation story, they can look it up on their own or ask the respective religious leader.

So...to summarize.





My points:






                        • Creationism is a religious belief- or rather a belief that requires religion to be true



                        • The United States has a secular government, and therefore, separation from Church and State
                        • Creationism cannot be taught in school because it is not a secular concept
                        • If Creationism was taught in schools then all other religions would have a right to press their beliefs onto students



Conclusion:

Creationism should not be taught in the public sphere because it has neither the right nor the need to do so.

Sources

[1]: http://www.merriam-webster.com...

[2]: http://www.merriam-webster.com...

[3]: http://www.secularism.org.uk...

[4]: http://www.nobeliefs.com...

[5]: http://www.religionfacts.com...

[6]:

http://www.innovationslearning.co.uk...

http://ancienthistory.about.com...

Jonbonbon

Con

I would like to thank my opponent for creating this debate, and I wish him luck.

Now onto my points. My opponent has made the resolution: "Creationism should not be taught in the public sphere of education."

This means he must prove that in every scenario possible, creationism should not be taught in any sort of public education. I have two problems with this, and I'm sure the public sphere of education has some problems with this resolution as well.

Contention1: It should definitely be taught in college.

Lots of colleges are technically public education, including state universities. Religious studies is a program offered by state universities [1][2]. State universities are technically public [3]. Now my opponent will agree that creationism is a religiously supported theory. This means that it would be ridiculous for someone to take a religious studies major, but not be able to learn the various theories on creationism. That's all I really need to say there.

Contention 2: Possibilities of high school classes.

You can take world religion classes at some schools, and even if I'm wrong, it's a valid possibility. To extend from my point above, if you take a world religion class, you should most definitely be taught the various theories on creationism.
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Sorry if this is a bit underwhelming to anyone reading, but that's all that really needs to be said. I've adequately negated the resolution, and I don't really think those points need to be expanded. Thanks for reading.

Sources:
[1] http://religiousstudies.as.nyu.edu...
[2] http://catalog.wvu.edu...
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 2
coldto

Pro

coldto forfeited this round.
Jonbonbon

Con

Extend my arguments.
Debate Round No. 3
coldto

Pro

coldto forfeited this round.
Jonbonbon

Con

Thank you for reading.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Jonbonbon 3 years ago
Jonbonbon
If you want to that's fine.
Posted by coldto 3 years ago
coldto
I feel I owe everyone here an apology. I was unable to access my computer for reasons I don't wish to discuss. I realize that is not an excuse for my forefitting of this debate. I regrettfully concede this battle to my opponent, as I believe it is the right thing to do. I hope my opponent can forigve me for not finishing this debate, as you can feel assured that I had TONS more to say. Perhaps we might take these matters up again a second time?
Posted by debate_power 3 years ago
debate_power
Wow, that one went speedily.
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by Defro 3 years ago
Defro
coldtoJonbonbonTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by TN05 3 years ago
TN05
coldtoJonbonbonTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by WilliamsP 3 years ago
WilliamsP
coldtoJonbonbonTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Conduct obviously goes to Con due to Pro's forfeitures. Pro made a few grammatical errors, which bugged me enough, causing me to give those points to Con. I believe Pro made the most convincing arguments, using a wider range of sources and writing a much longer argument. However, Pro failed to refute Con's points, making that vote a tie. Reliable sources are tied. Pro had more sources, but that does not make them more reliable.
Vote Placed by Wylted 3 years ago
Wylted
coldtoJonbonbonTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con brought up appropriate situations for creationism to be taught in the public sphere, and forfeits.
Vote Placed by NiamC 3 years ago
NiamC
coldtoJonbonbonTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Firstly I would like to say that points for conduct should be awarded to Con due to Pro forfeiting, but also because Con had the decency to not forfeit after this. I would like to also say that both sides had good arguments, but it was a shame that pro forfeited and therefore, con had an advantage (and was able to somewhat negate of pros points). I would have liked to have seen some further rounds. Good show chaps!
Vote Placed by whiteflame 3 years ago
whiteflame
coldtoJonbonbonTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con gives me sufficient reasons (based on the burdens provided) for me to be for creationism being taught in certain instances. The forfeits leave Pro without any response.
Vote Placed by SeventhProfessor 3 years ago
SeventhProfessor
coldtoJonbonbonTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF, plus con showed there was a situation where creationism should be taught that remained unrebutted.