The Instigator
tylergraham95
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
NightofTheLivingCats
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points

CryptoCurrency will likely replace traditional currency.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+3
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
NightofTheLivingCats
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/30/2014 Category: Economics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,299 times Debate No: 44898
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (2)

 

tylergraham95

Pro

This is a debate regarding whether or not traditional currency will be replaced by cryptocurrency. Traditional currency is defined (by example) as currencies such as the US dollar, the Euro, and otehr forms of physical currency.

Cryptocurrency refers to the various forms of cryptocurrency such as Bitcoin, Litecoin, Dogecoin, or others.

The Pro is asserting that Cryptocurrency will (in the future) become the most commonly used form of currency. The Con must assert that Cryptocurrency will not.

The BOP is shared.

Round one is for acceptance only.
Round two is for construction only.
No new arguments/rebuttals will be made in the final round.
Debate Round No. 1
tylergraham95

Pro

I thank my opponent for accepting my challenge.

Pros Case

(A) Cryptocurrency is already massively popular.

Cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin, Litecoin, and Dogecoin are already massively popular, which is what gives them their values. Their popularity is also growing very rapidly. One bitcoin holds value in the neighborhood of 800$. Value is incurred onto the currency when people accept it for goods and services, and everyday more and more people are accepting bitcoins as payment for commodoties such as cars, houses, and other regular consumer goods.

The current exchange rate for Bitcoins is 833.3 USD per coin.(1)

Litecoin is worth 20.85 USD per coin. (2)

Each dogecoin is worth only .0013 USD per coin (3), but their value has been rapidly rising. After founders of doge raised 30,000$ in doge for the jamaican bobsled team in one day, the value of dogecoin jumped 50%! Dogecoin trades are also in the millions of transactions per day. (4)

There are even ATMs in Canada that sell bitcoins!

Forbes writes "

It is getting harder to keep up with the number of consumer-oriented businesses starting to accept Bitcoin as a payment platform. There is Overstock.com, of course, which rang up $500,000 in Bitcoin-paid purchases within weeks of its announcement. Malwarebytes has just announced it is accepting Bitcoin for its consumer products via Coinbase, claiming it is the first major security company to do so.

Also, in the “first” category is CheapAir.com, which says it is the first U.S. online travel agency to accept Bitcoins, at least for hotel reservations. Also Mint, a personal finance app whose brand screams out financial responsibility and transparency, is also partnering with Coinbase to allow its users to integrate Bitcoin transactions into their traditional accounts.

The really compelling news, though, is that a service aimed at investors in one of the few undigitized sectors of the U.S. economy–commercial real estate–now has a Bitcoin payment option." (5)



(B) The Viability of Cryptocurrency

The major benefit of cryptocurrencies is the fact that they are decntralized. The coins are minted or "Mined" by computers that decrypt complex blocks of crypto in order to generate the identity of each coin. This also means that there is a definate set limit to the number of coins. This prevents forced inflation via the printing of money. As the currency is not physical, an extra benefit is that it is infinitely divisible. If you need exactly .00000013 BTC you can trade exactly that in transaction. It's like cloud accessible cash. Digital transactions in the traditional curency system requires you to simply make bank transfers between accounts. Cryptocurrency transactions are equitable to actually handing someone cash. Cryptocurrency is one of the few digital commodoties. I will talk more about the benefits of a commodoty market later.

Cryptocurrency right now is difficult to trade in person. The only real way to ensure that your good is paid for is to watch the person send the coins to your wallet as you hand them your good or give your service; in a way, though, that is similar to the case with traditional currency.

Debit card systems that act as direct cash transfers are a viable option for the future of crypto currency. These would work like regular debit cards, except instead of a bank sending the money in a transfer, you would simply automatically send your bitcoins (or whatever cryptocurrency you use) directly from your wallet.

Obviously, to avoid theft, people will have to become more familiar with internet security, but that is the case with traditional currency online as well. Learning to protect your computer will likely in the future be the same as learning to secure your home and belongings.


(C) Commodity

Cryptocurrencies (as they have a semi-tangible nature and are limited in quantity) are a comodity. There are many advantages to commodity trading.

"Commodity exchanges actually serve a vital role to the economy and it is unlikely we would have had as much economic growth in the last 100 years without the commodity exchanges.

The purpose of commodity exchanges is to provide a centralized marketplace where commodity producers (commercials) can sell their commodities to those who wish to use them for manufacturing or consumption. The beauty of a commodity futures exchange is that someone like a corn farmer can lock in a price for his crops months before they are even harvested. This process increases business survival among farmers and the exchanges always make sure there is a buyer for every seller, provided their prices meet."(6)

Cryptocurrency aids in the creation of a healthy commodity market.


(D) The Elimination of Banks.

One of the greatest percieved benefits of cryptocurrency replacing traditional currency is the elimination of banks and the lending system. You can store any volume of cryptocash in your wallet without having to worry about space, and you can secure it with digital backup systems. Trades can also be made globally over the internet without the need of a middleman. The banking system has grown more and more unstable over time; with the rise of cryptocurrency, it will become vestigal.

Today, banks use interest and loans to incur value that is nonexistant through debt. This creates an economic setting where someone must lost money. Cryptocurrency creates much more fair market enviroments. (7)



Sources
1. http://preev.com...
2. http://litecoinexchangerate.org...
3. http://dogecoin.com...
4. http://en.wikipedia.org...;
5. http://www.forbes.com...;
6. http://commodities.about.com...;
7. http://www.honest-money.com...;
NightofTheLivingCats

Con


Cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin, Litecoin, and Dogecoin are already massively popular, which is what gives them their values. Their popularity is also growing very rapidly. One bitcoin holds value in the neighborhood of 800$. Value is incurred onto the currency when people accept it for goods and services, and everyday more and more people are accepting bitcoins as payment for commodoties such as cars, houses, and other regular consumer goods.

First, Bitcoins or just Dogecoins or whatever, to take on paper money's role, it has to be VERY widespread. If you go up to Taco Bell and order, and the total is $13.53, and all you have is Dogecoin, you couldn't be able to pay. It is misleading to say that is "massively popular" because it's not.

The current exchange rate for Bitcoins is 833.3 USD per coin.(1)

I find it ironic that for Bitcoin or Dogecoin to become popular, you must buy it with money.


Each dogecoin is worth only .0013 USD per coin (3), but their value has been rapidly rising. After founders of doge raised 30,000$ in doge for the jamaican bobsled team in one day, the value of dogecoin jumped 50%! Dogecoin trades are also in the millions of transactions per day. (4)

There are even ATMs in Canada that sell bitcoins!

What is the relevance of this?

Forbes writes "

It is getting harder to keep up with the number of consumer-oriented businesses starting to accept Bitcoin as a payment platform. There is Overstock.com, of course, which rang up $500,000 in Bitcoin-paid purchases within weeks of its announcement. Malwarebytes has just announced it is accepting Bitcoin for its consumer products via Coinbase, claiming it is the first major security company to do so.

Some businesses may start to accept bitcoin, but it is too soon to tell. I never even heard of these websites before.

Also, in the “first” category is CheapAir.com, which says it is the first

Never heard.

U.S. online travel agency to accept Bitcoins, at least for hotel reservations. Also Mint, a personal finance app whose brand screams out financial responsibility and transparency, is also partnering with Coinbase to allow its users to integrate Bitcoin transactions into their traditional accounts.

All of these internet arguments are pointless. I can buy something over the internet with "normal" money. I don't need Bitcoin. Right now, if I want a pack of skittles and a bottle of coke from the store, I need money. It's unlikely that bitcoin will expand outside of the internet.

This prevents forced inflation via the printing of money.

A problem, yes. But it's stands with the Government, not the money itself.

As the currency is not physical, an extra benefit is that it is infinitely divisible.

This is not a benefit.

If you need exactly .00000013 BTC you can trade exactly that in transaction. It's like cloud accessible cash.

This isn't really a benefit then what you think. If you owe $18.82, you can pay them in many differnet ways. It's like saying you can pay a bill due for $5 for 500 cents, and that makes it better then paying with $5.

Digital transactions in the traditional curency system requires you to simply make bank transfers between accounts. Cryptocurrency transactions are equitable to actually handing someone cash. Cryptocurrency is one of the few digital commodoties. I will talk more about the benefits of a commodoty market later.

I can do this. Walk up to a Gragage sale, and hand them the money.

Cryptocurrency right now is difficult to trade in person. The only real way to ensure that your good is paid for is to watch the person send the coins to your wallet as you hand them your good or give your service; in a way, though, that is similar to the case with traditional currency.

This is why it will not take over traditional currency.

The purpose of commodity exchanges is to provide a centralized marketplace where commodity producers (commercials) can sell their commodities to those who wish to use them for manufacturing or consumption. The beauty of a commodity futures exchange is that someone like a corn farmer can lock in a price for his crops months before they are even harvested. This process increases business survival among farmers and the exchanges always make sure there is a buyer for every seller, provided their prices meet."(6)

You have not proven that Bitcoin will act this way.


One of the greatest percieved benefits of cryptocurrency replacing traditional currency is the elimination of banks and the lending system. You can store any volume of cryptocash in your wallet without having to worry about space, and you can secure it with digital backup systems.

Ok, so what? But I want to know why you are so against bank?

Trades can also be made globally over the internet without the need of a middleman. The banking system has grown more and more unstable over time; with the rise of cryptocurrency, it will become vestigal.

Which needs both traders to have bitcoins.

Today, banks use interest and loans to incur value that is nonexistant through debt. This creates an economic setting where someone must lost money. Cryptocurrency creates much more fair market enviroments. (7)

This is a problem, along with the above, with banking, and not the money itself.

Debate Round No. 2
tylergraham95

Pro

Pros Case


"First, Bitcoins or just Dogecoins or whatever, to take on paper money's role, it has to be VERY widespread. If you go up to Taco Bell and order, and the total is $13.53, and all you have is Dogecoin, you couldn't be able to pay. It is misleading to say that is "massively popular" because it's not. "

Relative to traditional money today, not it's not "massively popular." It is, however, massively popular in the sense that millions of trades are made daily. That means that hundreds of thousands of people are trading these coins daily. Furthermore, just because the currency is as popular as traditional currency yet, that doesn't mean that it won't be in the future. The use of cryptocurrency is on the rise, and in the future, you will be able to walk into Taco Bell and order a loaded chicken griller with bitcoins, or some other crypto currency.


"I find it ironic that for Bitcoin or Dogecoin to become popular, you must buy it with money."

As of right now, traditional currency is indeed the standard. The point of this debate is that it will be the standard in the future.


"What is the relevance of this?"

It's just evidence to show that Bitcoin is already widely accepted, and invested in, and will one day become the standard of currency.


"All of these Internet arguments are pointless. I can buy something over the Internet with "normal" money. I don't need Bitcoin. Right now, if I want a pack of skittles and a bottle of coke from the store, I need money. It's unlikely that bitcoin will expand outside of the Internet."

The arguments are absolutely relevant. They show that cryptocurrency shows excellent potential of replacing traditional currency. No, you don't need bitcoins today, but in the future, people will want to use them because of the benefits I have outlined in my R1 arguments.


"Some businesses may start to accept bitcoin, but it is too soon to tell. I never even heard of these websites before."

It's not too soon to tell, though. Canada has bitcoin ATMs already! Just because you've never heard of these website, doesn't make them irrelevant. The point is, you can buy real commodities/products with bitcoins.


"A problem, yes. But it's stands with the Government, not the money itself."

It does stand with the money, though. The problem is prevented by replacing traditional currency with cryptocurrency.


"This is not a benefit. This isn't really a benefit then what you think. If you owe $18.82, you can pay them in many different ways. It's like saying you can pay a bill due for $5 for 500 cents, and that makes it better then paying with $5."

That's not for you to decide. Making currency easily divisible infinitely makes for convenience in transactions. If you want to price something at 23.4867$ at your store, you can't because of the flaws in traditional money. With bitcoins, this is not a problem.


"I can do this. Walk up to a Gragage sale, and hand them the money."

But you can't carry your entire net worth in cash, which causes the necessity for banks. I have shown that the banking system is flawed in my previous arguments.


"This is why it will not take over traditional currency."

This is not a long term problem.


"You have not proven that Bitcoin will act this way."

Cryptocurrencies are an Internet commodity, and can be traded thusly.


"Which needs both traders to have bitcoins."

If you went to Taco Bell with japanese, yen (here in America) you would have a small problem as well...


"This is a problem, along with the above, with banking, and not the money itself."

But replacing traditional currency fixes this problem.


Summary
The con fails to address many of my points, and gives no assertions to suggest that Cryptocurrency won't grow in popularity. Therefore, VOTE PRO!
NightofTheLivingCats

Con

Relative to traditional money today, not it's not "massively popular." It is, however, massively popular in the sense that millions of trades are made daily.

False?

http://blockchain.info...

As of Feb. '14, there has been about ~62,000 transactions.

As of right now, traditional currency is indeed the standard. The point of this debate is that it will be the standard in the future.

Correct.

It's just evidence to show that Bitcoin is already widely accepted, and invested in, and will one day become the standard of currency.


I might disagree with the definition of "widely". However, this is a non sequitur. Even if there is ~1,000,000 users, they could lose faith in it.

This graph suggests there is about 7.7 billion dollars in Bitcoin.

http://blockchain.info...

And it appears the graph is dropping.

The arguments are absolutely relevant. They show that cryptocurrency shows excellent potential of replacing traditional currency. No, you don't need bitcoins today, but in the future, people will want to use them because of the benefits I have outlined in my R1 arguments.

Except you need to explain how they will expand. Yes, they have benefits, but so does "normal" money.

It's not too soon to tell, though. Canada has bitcoin ATMs already! Just because you've never heard of these website, doesn't make them irrelevant. The point is, you can buy real commodities/products with bitcoins.

What's the use of an ATM if you cannot use the money easily? This is confirmation bias.

It does stand with the money, though. The problem is prevented by replacing traditional currency with cryptocurrency.

Baseless Assertion. Don't banks run most ATMs? If so, if there is bitcoin ATMs, Banks are sticking around.

That's not for you to decide. Making currency easily divisible infinitely makes for convenience in transactions. If you want to price something at 23.4867$ at your store, you can't because of the flaws in traditional money. With bitcoins, this is not a problem.

I don't really want to know why you would want to price a odd price to a item. But, you can in theory have a ".004" cent piece and and a ".0001" cent piece and have it blow away the benefit.

But you can't carry your entire net worth in cash, which causes the necessity for banks. I have shown that the banking system is flawed in my previous arguments.

I don't need to. I can just carry what I want. And nothing is really stopping me from keeping the cash under the bed. The Banking system is indeed flawed. But, that does not make bitcoin better than normal money.

If you went to Taco Bell with japanese, yen (here in America) you would have a small problem as well...

Of course.


But replacing traditional currency fixes this problem.

Baseless assertion.



Tyler has made only baseless assertions and has not shown as to WHY Bitcoin will take over the money that we know of today, so, I urge voters to vote NIGHTCATS.
Debate Round No. 3
tylergraham95

Pro

Final Statements


My opponent has provided no real reasoning as to why Cryptocurrency will not become more popular in the future other than "It isn't that popular now." I have provided many reasons why Cryptocurrencies will in the future become the most popular form of curency, as I have shown the many varied benefits that can be accrued through using cryptocurrency.
-Commodity trading
-Decentralization
-Precise value trades
-Ease of access

My opponent has not shown any compelling evidence to suggest that these benefits are unreal or even unlikely.

My opponents argumant also, is not constructive in any form or fashion, and therefore does not meet the burden of proof.

Therefore, I urge that the voters vote PRO!
NightofTheLivingCats

Con

Tyler has not proved as to WHY bitcoin or Dogecoin will take over normal money, only saying its benefits, as I addressed.

So, I ask to voters to vote CATS.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by tylergraham95 3 years ago
tylergraham95
Just to clarify for the voters, this debate isn't just about Bitcoins, It's about cryptocurrency in general, so the source about the volume of bitcoin trades does not necessarily reflect all bitcoins.
Posted by tylergraham95 3 years ago
tylergraham95
@rip
I am glad you are interested!
Posted by RipNaschy 3 years ago
RipNaschy
This is an interesting debate. I agree that it is entirely possible, if not likely that this will occur at some point. Whether this happens in our lifetime, one hundred years, or one thousand is what remains to be determined. I will be watching this one.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by donald.keller 3 years ago
donald.keller
tylergraham95NightofTheLivingCatsTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:33 
Reasons for voting decision: While this debate was hard to vote hard, I have to say that Con's R2 was weak. Pro's argument proved that Cryptocurrency is great, but not that the Government would allow it to take over. Normally, I'd leave Arguments as a tie, but since Pro was supposed to prove something he didn't, I have to give it to Con. Con mostly won when showing that Bitcoin's stock are HALF of what they were a while back. Pro did have better sourcing, and I felt he had better Spelling and Grammar. Conduct as good on both sides.
Vote Placed by iamanatheistandthisiswhy 3 years ago
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
tylergraham95NightofTheLivingCatsTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Fantastic debate full of insight. One criticism I did not like the replying to arguments system, its like reading everything again. Argument points were a tough decision, but Con snatched it in the end with the data from blockchain.info, this sealed the arguments hat Con made as it showed the popularity of Bitcoin has peaked and is stable or decreasing. So congratulations Con. All other points are tied, as I feel both debaters did a great job.