The Instigator
Robert_Weiler
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
blackkid
Con (against)
Winning
14 Points

DDO voting category S&G should be changed to "Who communicated best?"

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
blackkid
Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 8/19/2014 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 485 times Debate No: 60662
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (2)

 

Robert_Weiler

Pro

First round for acceptance only.
blackkid

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
Robert_Weiler

Pro

The point of a debate.

The object of debate is to convince others of your point of view, or to disprove an opinion held by others. In order to do this, one must make convincing arguments, and rebut the arguments made by their opponent.

The importance of clear communication.

Clear communication of your arguments is vital to debate. If your audience is unable to mentally grasp your argument, your argument will fail.

The importance of Spelling & Grammar.

Spelling and grammar is important, but not vital to a debate. The rules of English spelling and grammar are fluid, changing with location, dialect, and time period.

The case for clear communication, rather than spelling and grammar.

Using correct spelling and grammar, a person may still make an argument that is not clearly communicated to the audience, even though it may be a stronger argument. Conversely, a person may have atrocious spelling and grammar, and still make a clearer argument, weak or strong.

Also, many people on this site do not speak English as their first language. They do not conjugate verbs correctly, or they use inappropriate English punctuation. But their argument is clearer than their opponents. Why should they lose a point in a debate, when their argument was nevertheless understood?
blackkid

Con

1. Clear communication hinges on spelling and grammar in text. To be able to separate the two is a challenge I've yet to see completed; a person's spelling and grammar is key since misspelled words and bad grammar actually can change entire meanings for phrases and this also true of syntax and punctuation. The core of the misquotation of a person rests entirely on these factors.

2. Muddled spelling is a sign of incoherent conceptualization. Jargon and high-tier language requires precision so when a person can only use lower tier language the odds of failure to communicate soar. One's ability to spell is likely a strong indication of their vocabulary; while one may not be perfect in spelling the worse the spelling and the management of punctuation and other syntax and grammatical rules the less likely you can have an engaging conversation above basic level.

Clarity is imperative but a separate issue and it is usually born from mastery of language; when considering the foreign and second language persons it's courtesy, not integrity, that allows the oversights because at times the language is different enough to actually produce entirely different arguments. Recently this happened with me, I asked "Is Beauty Objective?" and a person challenged me, likely not a native English speaker to: "Is Beauty THE Objective?" and these are two totally different ideas and statements. One's mastery of language when performing is not just external; the ability to understand what is being said generally relates to your ability to speak the language as well.

The more complex the debate the harder it is to follow poor S&G which in turn is translated literally to "weakened communication". Perhaps your policy makes sense only in cursory moments such as discussing simpler topics like "are poodles really dogs?" but when discussing jargon heavy propositions it is imperative you know what you're saying, how you're saying it, and that no one has to guess. Debate is like Sudoku: You are NEVER supposed to guess or assume what a person is saying; doing so when you judge them creates a hard bias.
Debate Round No. 2
Robert_Weiler

Pro

1. Clear communication hinges on spelling and grammar in text. To be able to separate the two is a challenge I've yet to see completed; a person's spelling and grammar is key since misspelled words and bad grammar actually can change entire meanings for phrases and this also true of syntax and punctuation. The core of the misquotation of a person rests entirely on these factors.

A good argument. However, if the debater's message is nevertheless received by his audience, why should debate points be taken away?

An example, the word pterodactyl is extremely difficult to spell for most people. If we are debating dinosaurs and I spell it "teradactill," you know exactly what I mean, why should debate points be lost?

Spelling and grammar are different than communication. Communication is a better measuring stick for a debate.
blackkid

Con

There are two reasons why I would just a person harshly for misspelling difficult terms:

1. Laziness: If you are using the internet right now then you have access to multiple search engines. Typing "teradactill" into one of them will produce the correct spelling. You do not have the excuse of difficulty when you are literally using a giant reference tool; it is equivalent in my mind to saying "Well, yes, I do have all the answers right next to me, but I choose not to use them, and yes I did have to get sources for may claims about pterodactyls, but my ability to spell what I refer to is meaningless.

2. Ignorance: The last thing anyone needs is a person rampaging on ideas that they don't understand and knowing how to spell jargon is a sign of knowledge and command over a subject. Let's take your example and vocalize it; would you listen more to a person who says "terra-dac-til" or a person who says "p-ter-oda-ctyl"? The same thing stands in written debate. "Boo-sua-see" versus "Bo-or-gee-see" ( bour"geoi"sie ) and while again we can have tolerance for this marking communication instead of spelling and grammar only encourages people not to pay attention to what they say, type, or learn.

You don't have to know how to do everything but you do need to know how to actually encompass some form of competence. I don't care if you ever learn how to spell pterodactyl but by golly there is absolutely no reason you can't reference it and absolutely no reason why people should simply overlook your refusal to do so when you are using the world's largest reference tool to even pose the argument to begin with.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Aerogant 2 years ago
Aerogant
I agree. I can understand every walk of life on this planet. It painfully disturbs me how people nitpick at something that isn't someone's fault for being born elsewhere.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by AlternativeDavid 2 years ago
AlternativeDavid
Robert_Weilerblackkid
Who won the debate:-Vote Checkmark
Reasons for voting decision: Con showed that there's really no reason to change it. Misspelling a word can completely change a sentence in English(e.g. "right of passage" and "rite of passage" mean completely different things).
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
Robert_Weilerblackkid
Who won the debate:-Vote Checkmark
Reasons for voting decision: con proved that people would go lazy if DDO voting category went into "who communicated best" and that if we didn't change it people would understand better; and people would also display their strong vocabulary as well as possibly high education within correct spellings.