The Instigator
Solarman1969
Pro (for)
Losing
9 Points
The Contender
Mr_Khan
Con (against)
Winning
37 Points

DO NOT VACCINATE YOUR INFANT! the risks are MUCH higher than the possible benefits!

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/12/2008 Category: Science
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,212 times Debate No: 1730
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (63)
Votes (14)

 

Solarman1969

Pro

I am a father of two

Neither of my children were vaccinated

When I was a child, I showed signs of being allergic to vaccines and was not vaccinated

When my ex tried to give my seven year old a vaccine without my permission and against my will, despite it being "mercury-free" and "holistic" within days she got a horrible condition called ITP

the doctors say they dont really understand why it occurs (vaccines of course) but what happens is your white blood cell count drops to like zero from 100-200,000.

I took her to Oakland Childrens hospital and she got a transfusion- and they were telling me that it might be a permanent condition

Like a MIRACLE, a few days later the condition receded.

NOONE was willing to admit the link between the vaccine and the ITP, and they CANNOT explain why ITP happens.

Furthermore, the VACCINE INDUSTRY is just that - an 13 BILLION$ industry

It is the ONLY THING they try and force you to do to your kids and PAY alot for

the Autism rate is not 1 in 150 kids- it was realtively UNKNOWN before mass vaccines

the Autism rate among NON-vaccinated children is like 1 in 100,000 or less (I am trying to find the survey I read before on this)

the medical exstablishment DENIES anty link between vaccines and Autism and IPT and other auto immune disorders AND SIDS (sudden infant death sydrome)

I KNOW FOR A FACT that all of these problems are caused by babies , LITTLE BABIES, with INCREDIBLY FRAGILE systems, being forced to take in like 26 yes 26 different strains of DEAD PATHOGENS, alog with the PRESERVATIVES and other crap that is in the vaccines.

they try to FORCE YOU as a parent to vaccinate

these are DO GOODERS FROM HELL

the facts are CLEAR but they will not listen

I would like a PARENT or MEDICAL TYPE to argue this with me

this in another VERY IMPORTANT issue that deserves a GOOD DEBATE
Mr_Khan

Con

Vaccinating haha, you are so funny Solarman1969. Lets begin with the idea that vaccinations do actually help. Without the vaccination against Polio we would still be stuck back in the 20th century. In 1952 The United States had it's worse Polio epidemic. Nearly 58,000 cases were reported and of those 58,000; 3,145 died and 21,269 were left with the horribly debilitating disease. What about the smallpox disease? without the smallpox vaccination everyone would easily contract this horrible disease. Even better, what about the MMR or Encephalitis vaccinations? Without those vaccinations college students could contract those diseases, and not only college students, people who work in areas where they are in contact with many people in a small area.. lets think a place like that could be hospitals, dr. offices, colleges, high schools, middle schools, elementary schools, the freaking city of New York, any airport, any airplane, any sporting event.. get the picture?

What about the vaccine against the bubonic plague, cholera, Hepatitis A? all of those are really bad diseases that not only can cripple a person but can easily kill a person, as quickly as it can be easily treated or prevented by vaccinations. I think maybe your children and you might be lucky, but wait till one of your children, GOD FORBID, contracts Polio or some debilitating disease, then what will you think?
Debate Round No. 1
Solarman1969

Pro

this is NOT a Ha ha topic

You should be ashamed at even opening your argument considering he INCREDIBLE suffering , anguish and DEATH that have occured as the vaccination industry has so successfully sold you on a bill of goods.

Vaccines DO work, they DID eliminate polio, and many other illnesses.

I am a trained scientist and engineer and have studied hisory in many different areas , so lets be clear here.

I am not arguing that vaccines for ADULTS or school age children even are effective, although overblown to be sure.

Here is the problem

the GOVERMENT MANDATES (at least they make it seem this way- you CAN opt out) that you MUST give your INFANT a WHOLE SERIES of vaccines, in groups of three and four, starting at two months, and going on until they are about 5.

Here is the government recommendations for NOW (they are TRYING to introduce some 30 new ones , at least here in CA)

http://www.cispimmunize.org...

lets analyze this

(1) Hepatitus B

HEPATITUS B at BIRTH ?????? 2 months ????? 4 months ????? and 6 months?????

Hep B is ONLY I repeat ONLY gotten though BLOOD-

(2) the other 7

YES 7

they want to give your 2 MONTH OLD are the following

Rota virus, Hib, DPT (3) ,and IP

YOUR 2 MONTH OLD!!!!!

then they make you come back every 2 months for another 30

YES 30 total doses of vaccines for your little baby

Now think about it

think about HOW VULERABLE a little baby's immune and nervous system are!!

they can get OVERWHELMED by this GNARLY COMBO of COMPLEX antigens that CAUSE a IMMUNE RESPONSE from the body

this is HOW vaccines are supposed to work -

they are supposedly just dummy DNA and RNA to trick your immune system to develop antigens to specific bugs (pathogens)

Do you for one minute think a BRAND NEW BABY, who you will give NOTHING BUT BREAST MILK for the first six months , is CAPABLE OF HANDLING SUCH A HUGE STRESS?????

OF COURSE THEY ARE NOT

thus 100%

yes 100%

of babies who get shots develop reactions

the mildest reactions are soreness, crying for days on end, no sleep. and fever

SEVERE reactions are paralysis, permanent brain damage and DEATH

this is NOT the mercury

yes MERCURY

that used to be in the thimerosal, which used to preseve the vaccines

MERCURY ! Hg !

the current strategy of the CDC and the rest of the LIARS and DECEIVERS in the medical establishment is to do the following

- divert the argument to mercury from the main point

that being giving an INFANT multiple series of shots, when they are TOTALLY VULNERABLE and NOT READY FOR IT

look at ALL the government claims of disinformation

"there is no proof the the MERCURY in the vaccines causes autism"

this is NOT the POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is FORCING ALL INFANTS to GET DOZENS OF DANGEROUS INJECTIONS OF FOREIGN BODIES INTO THEIR LITTLE FRAGILE IMMUNE SYSTEMS!!!!!!!

Here is some good info

http://www.healing-arts.org...

How Could Vaccines Cause Damage?

No vaccine is perfectly safe. An adverse event can be said to be caused by a vaccine (i.e., a true reaction) if it is associated with a specific laboratory finding and a specific clinical syndrome or both. Alternatively, a clinical or epidemiological study is needed to find out whether the rate of a given syndrome in vaccinated individuals exceeds that expected among unvaccinated controls.
Immune panels and other laboratory tests, medical histories, and the supporting medical literature support a causal association, with increased risks among those children who are sick or have recently been sick. Anecdotal reports, such as those suggesting the onset of autism after MMR vaccine, are important in pointing toward possible relationships, which further investigative work can clarify.

Vaccination may damage children in several ways. Live or attenuated virus vaccination can actually produce the infection that the vaccine is supposed to prevent. For example, live polio should never be administered to a child who comes in contact with an HIV patient, for the attenuated virus can "leap" to the HIV patient and produce polio. Reports exist of normal parents who have developed polio from the viral vaccine given to their children.

A second mechanism of damage comes from neurotoxic materials found sometimes in vaccines. Thimerosol is the most widely discussed, since it contains mercury. The amount is small. Each vaccine is equivalent to the amount of mercury found in a 6 oz. Can of tuna fish. Nevertheless, some argue that even these levels may be important in a vulnerable child.

The third, and probably the most important theory of vaccine damage, relates to allergic reactions and the development of an auto-immune response, stimulated by the vaccine and its adjuvant. Vaccines always contain adjuvants, which are substances known to amplify the body's response to the vaccine. These adjuvants are known to sometimes cause allergic and auto-immune responses on their own.

We refer interested readers to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) web sites for estimates of disease prevented by vaccines. On-going debate rages over the benefits of vaccine for protection of the public and for prevention of the disease, versus the risk to individuals who receive the vaccine for vaccine-related complications. The question of whether or not a society can force its members to undergo individual risks (complications of vaccination) for the greater public good (disease prevention) is an important part of this question. The Center for Disease Control (as its name implies) represents one answer to these questions, while the National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) champions the rights of individual families to refuse vaccines. The NVIC makes a very important, sometimes neglected point:

"Vaccination is a medical procedure which carries a risk of injury or death. As a parent, it is your responsibility to become educated about the benefits and risks of vaccines in order to make the most informed, responsible vaccination decisions."

A similar statement can be made about any medical procedure. There area also possible, but unproven links between MMR vaccine and juvenile diabetes multiple vaccines and autism, and OPV and Gulf War syndrome. Time and further research will tell if these proposed relationships are real.

Right now, despite YEARS of lying and obfuscation and delays and hurdles places in their way, the federal suit of families of Children with autism, some 4500, is going forward in federal court

Here is some more background of the problem

The history of studies on vaccines began in 1922 when a smallpox vaccination program caused an outbreak of encephalitis, with a secondary result of Guillain-Barre Syndrome, an ascending paralysis ending in death. The polio virus produces a breakdown of the myelin sheath, called poliomyelitis, which results in paralysis. Encephalitis, whether caused through disease or as a result of vaccination, can cause demyelination of the nerves. For more information, see The Mechanism of Encephalitic Damage from Vaccines. General paralysis is rare in regions where no organized vaccination of the population exists. It is impossible to deny a connection between vaccination and the encephalitis which sometimes follows it. [Reference: Wise RP, Kiminyo KP, Salive ME. Hair loss after routine immunizations. J Am Med Assoc 1997; 278: 1176-8.]

BOTTOM LINE: YOU ARE WARNED

DONT LET YOUR CHILD LOSE THEIR LIFE TO THE DO GOODERS FROM HELL

SOLARMAN
Mr_Khan

Con

My fellow debater. I am sorry that I could not rebuttal your very interesting argument for I have been very busy with work and school. Anyway enough of this hog pog stuff, and lets get down to the nitty gritty fun stuff shall we?

All though you show a lot of support and interesting tid-bits I do still stand when i started my rebuttal the first time.

Just because you are an engineer by training does not give you the credentials to say vaccinations are horrible things that have high counts of mercury and can cause a lot of problems and sicknesses and even deaths. One reason why I say this is; You are not a doctor, two, you are not in the medical field, thus you do not know everything about vaccinations and how good they actually are for society, three are you really afraid of small amounts of mercury harming you and your family? thats great, but i would say nearly 80% of Americans and most people who have access to vaccinations take the opportunity to take them and stay safe. Now Mr. Solarman, I must say, and admit, I have had many vaccinations. I am 23 years old. I have not had one problem with the vaccinations I have had, whether it be for Malaria, any of the Hep A, B, C, HIB, or any other vaccination, I don't have autism and I don't have ADD or ADHD. Most of the diseases and problems you accredit with vaccinations can also be caused by interbreeding.

Why don't you ask the hundreds, if not thousands of people who have volunteered in the Peace Corps, US State Department, any branch of the military, and most medical professionals about vaccinations and if they refuse them, I would bet that most people will take them to ensure their safety.

The stats that you provide are a very small portion of the overwhelmingly humongous population we have here in the states.. I would bet that the percentage of people affected by vaccinations is somewhere around a maximum of maybe 5%? sorry if I do not have the exact information, but I also do not look up facts from non-profit websites or websites from people who write blogs like you have in the passed in other debates of yours such as debates about Islam.. such as http://www.prohpetofdoom.org... or whatever website you use, please when you want to give credentials and factual information go to the actual websites where this information lies, not some .org website, maybe a .gov would be great.

Thanks
Debate Round No. 2
Solarman1969

Pro

YOU COMPLETELY MISS THE POINT

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT ADULTS

IF YOURE AN ADULT GET VACCINATED

DO WHATEVER YOU WANT

I am talking about MASS FORCED COERCED VACCINATIONS OF INFANTS

HEAR ME?

SHALL I REPEAT MYSELF?

AND WHAT MAKES YOU ANY TYPE OF EXPERT AND WHO SAYS YOU NEED TO HAVE AN MD TO PROPERLY STUDY AND ASSESS HEALTH ISSUES ?

I have studied biochem, epidemiology, and many other subjects and know how to read technical research, do real science and draw conclusions

I AM SENDING OUT A WARNING

DONT LET THEM DESTROY YOUR CHILD WITH THEIR DO GOODING FROM HELL

solarman
Mr_Khan

Con

Sorry if I did not give enough insight on what I was saying and what was meant. I was given all the same vaccinations while I was a baby. I have survived 23 healthy years and I have plenty in me. I don't care if you have studied organic chem, or epidemiology, I am a Political Scientist, I know how to research as well. I don't research things from blogs and things that people who make assumptions or base judgment on the small adverse affects of vaccinations.

Coerced vaccination? After all, it is up to the parent to vaccinate their children. So, like I said before, if you want to vaccinate your children like most people do, then do it, and if you don't then don't, but God Forbid something were to happen to anyone's children while they are still infants or young children, who is to blame? don't put the blame on modern medicine, blame yourself for being vainglorious and making judgment based on some findings.

I never said I was a credible source, or said I have a PhD or even an MD, I am just saying when you cite some website, make sure it is backed. I have a question, purely a question for you? Do you believe in miracles? Do you believe in challenges? Take a scenario. You have a baby, and you decide to give your baby vaccinations and God Forbid the baby has autism in the affects of the vaccination, would you look at it as a challenge and a blessing or do you view it as something damned and disgusting?
Debate Round No. 3
63 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Jebediah-Kerman 3 years ago
Jebediah-Kerman
Again, how would a couple of dead viruses be overwhelming and harming a infants brain?
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
again you have NO CLUE because you are a kid

when you are older and more learned, get back to me
Posted by Logos 9 years ago
Logos
"Whatever, you are a kid and have no clue or stake in this issue"

My being a "kid" has nothing to do with my ability to grasp an issue. Age is not the only indicator of someone's intelligence. Writing style, for example, offers much more insight into someone's mind. If person's writing is unfocused, randomly capitalized, and completely lacking any sort of grammar, it can tell you more about them than their age could.
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
Whatever, you are a kid and have no clue or stake in this issue

someday when you hold your precious child in your arms and the establshment is telling you you HAVE to subject your little baby to the horror of multiple vaccines, with MUCH risk of harm,

MAYBE

just MAYBE

you will remember me here trying to warn you NOT to

SOLARMAN
Posted by Logos 9 years ago
Logos
Solarman, you give every conservative, libertarian, and skeptic a bad name. Are you going to call me a "liberal" because I disagree with you?
Posted by Tatarize 9 years ago
Tatarize
Allergic reactions are nearly identical. If you give somebody allergic to eggs a flu vaccine they will break out in hives.

There are less than 5% risks of serious complications. The idea that they are remotely that high is joke. Look up the statistics before making such an absurd claim. Far less than 1/20 have any reaction at all outside of the crying. I remember when my nephew was vaccinated the nurse waited until fourth to last shot before giving him the biggest needle she had. He was then all teared up for the last three which hurt less. Going in order of pain would have made more sense.

In any event, there's no stats suggesting that vaccines aren't safe in conjuction with other vaccines. They are perfectly fine to give large numbers of them to kids. You could stagger them if you wanted but that's a lot more doctor visits and there's no signs of complications all at once. Certainly not 5%.
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
This sentence alone is the Rub

" pose no risk on an infant unless they have an allergic reaction."

my point is NOT that thimerosal or any other ADDITIVE is the problem

my point is that SUBJECTING INFANTS to strange DNA from multiple sources all at once carries a HIGH (maybe 5-10% ) risk of SERIOUS COMPLICATIONS, which can lead to brain damage and retardation or death or other permanent neurlogical impairment

MOST kids will get by without problems , true, but MANY MANY suffer permanent damage from the vaccines

this is without doubt and needs to be clearly understood

I am NOT against vaccines- I am against MASS VACCINATION of INFANTS at 2 months of age.

My son is perfectly healthy and is far ahead of the other babies in his playgroup , for whatever reason.

I regularly give him small amounts of collidal silver in his food to prevent bugs from gaining hold.

And as far as my support for Obambi- it is only to DEFEAT THE EVIL HILDEBEEST

I will vote for either John McCain or Mitt Romney
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
solarman , you say that people are voting against you because they are liberal. I am not a liberal by any means. In fact you are more liberal than I am as you are a supporter, somewhat anyway, of Obama. I do believe vaccinations are necessary and pose no risk on an infant unless they have an allergic reaction. This isn't even an issue of conservative or liberal. I am a conservative and I am for vaccinations. It is about people living longer lives thanks to vaccines.
Posted by Mr_Khan 9 years ago
Mr_Khan
The belief that childhood vaccines cause autism has finally been disproved, says a new study by the California Department of Public Health. Some parents of autistic children have long believed that the dramatic increase in autism cases in recent years was caused by a preservative called thirmerosal, which was widely used in vaccines until 2001. Thimerosal contains tiny amounts of mercury, which in larger doses can cause neurological damage. While the cause of autism is still unclear, thimerosal definitely wasn't the culprit, researcher Dr. Robert Schechter tells the LA Times. Schecthter compared developmental data on children vaccinated before and after thimerosal was removed from vaccines. "If mercury exposure in vaccines was a major cause of autism, then the number of affected kids should have diminished once they were no longer exposed to thimerosal," Schechter says. "That is not what we found." Instead, the number of autism cases continued to increase after thimerosal was removed. More than 1.5 million people in the US have some form of autism, an neurological disorder in which children become emotionally isolated from the world around them. Researchers aren't sure whether the increase in cases has an environmental or genetic cause, or whether it simply reflects greater awareness of the disorder and, thus, more diagnoses.

What do you think about that Solarman?
Posted by Mr_Khan 9 years ago
Mr_Khan
Thank you Tatarize! I agree with what you say about swine.
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