The Instigator
Solarman1969
Pro (for)
Losing
24 Points
The Contender
Kleptin
Con (against)
Winning
71 Points

DO NOT VACCINATE YOUR INFANT! the risks are MUCH higher than the possible benefits!

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/4/2008 Category: Health
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,245 times Debate No: 3074
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (34)
Votes (20)

 

Solarman1969

Pro

Heres PROOF- the government LOST the high profile case

and they DONT WANT YOU TO KNOW ABOUT IT

VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM, SIDS and HORRIBLE THINGS to INFANTS!

Government Concedes Vaccine-Autism Case in Federal Court - Now What?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

After years of insisting there is no evidence to link vaccines with the onset of autism spectrum disorder (ASD), the US government has quietly conceded a vaccine-autism case in the Court of Federal Claims.

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Buzz up!on Yahoo!The unprecedented concession was filed on November 9, and sealed to protect the plaintiff's identify. It was obtained through individuals unrelated to the case.

The claim, one of 4,900 autism cases currently pending in Federal "Vaccine Court," was conceded by US Assistant Attorney General Peter Keisler and other Justice Department officials, on behalf of the Department of Health and Human Services, the "defendant" in all Vaccine Court cases.

The child's claim against the government -- that mercury-containing vaccines were the cause of her autism -- was supposed to be one of three "test cases" for the thimerosal-autism theory currently under consideration by a three-member panel of Special Masters, the presiding justices in Federal Claims Court.

Keisler wrote that medical personnel at the HHS Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation (DVIC) had reviewed the case and "concluded that compensation is appropriate."

The doctors conceded that the child was healthy and developing normally until her 18-month well-baby visit, when she received vaccinations against nine different diseases all at once (two contained thimerosal).

Days later, the girl began spiraling downward into a cascade of illnesses and setbacks that, within months, presented as symptoms of autism, including: No response to verbal direction; loss of language skills; no eye contact; loss of "relatedness;" insomnia; incessant screaming; arching; and "watching the florescent lights repeatedly during examination."

Seven months after vaccination, the patient was diagnosed by Dr. Andrew Zimmerman, a leading neurologist at the Kennedy Krieger Children's Hospital Neurology Clinic, with "regressive encephalopathy (brain disease) with features consistent with autistic spectrum disorder, following normal development." The girl also met the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) official criteria for autism.

In its written concession, the government said the child had a pre-existing mitochondrial disorder that was "aggravated" by her shots, and which ultimately resulted in an ASD diagnosis.

"The vaccinations received on July 19, 2000, significantly aggravated an underlying mitochondrial disorder," the concession says, "which predisposed her to deficits in cellular energy metabolism, and manifested as a regressive encephalopathy with features of ASD."

This statement is good news for the girl and her family, who will now be compensated for the lifetime of care she will require. But its implications for the larger vaccine-autism debate, and for public health policy in general, are not as certain.

In fact, the government's concession seems to raise more questions than it answers.

1) Is there a connection between vaccines, mitochondrial disorders and a diagnosis of autism, at least in some cases?

Mitochondria, you may recall from biology class, are the little powerhouses within cells that convert food into electrical energy, partly through a complex process called "oxidative phosphorylation." If this process is impaired, mitochondrial disorder will ensue.

The child in this case had several markers for Mt disease, which was confirmed by muscle biopsy. Mt disease is often marked by lethargy, poor muscle tone, poor food digestion and bowel problems, something found in many children diagnosed with autism.

But mitochondrial disorders are rare in the general population, affecting some 2-per-10,000 people (or just 0.2%). So with 4,900 cases filed in Vaccine Court, this case should be the one and only, extremely rare instance of Mt disease in all the autism proceedings.

But it is not.

Mitochondrial disorders are now thought to be the most common disease associated with ASD. Some journal articles and other analyses have estimated that 10% to 20% of all autism cases may involve mitochondrial disorders, which would make them one thousand times more common among people with ASD than the general population.

Another article, published in the Journal of Child Neurology and co-authored by Dr. Zimmerman, showed that 38% of Kennedy Krieger Institute autism patients studied had one marker for impaired oxidative phosphorylation, and 47% had a second marker.

The authors -- who reported on a case-study of the same autism claim conceded in Vaccine Court -- noted that "children who have (mitochondrial-related) dysfunctional cellular energy metabolism might be more prone to undergo autistic regression between 18 and 30 months of age if they also have infections or immunizations at the same time."

An interesting aspect of Mt disease in autism is that, with ASD, the mitochondrial disease seems to be milder than in "classic" cases of Mt disorder. In fact, classic Mt disease is almost always inherited, either passed down by the mother through mitochondrial DNA, or by both parents through nuclear DNA.

In autism-related Mt disease, however, the disorder is not typically found in other family members, and instead appears to be largely of the sporadic variety, which may now account for 75% of all mitochondrial disorders.

Meanwhile, an informal survey of seven families of children with cases currently pending in Vaccine Court revealed that all seven showed markers for mitochondrial dysfunction, dating back to their earliest medical tests. The facts in all seven claims mirror the case just conceded by the government: Normal development followed by vaccination, immediate illness, and rapid decline culminating in an autism diagnosis.

2) With 4,900 cases pending, and more coming, will the government concede those with underlying Mt disease -- and if it not, will the Court award compensation?

The Court will soon begin processing the 4900 cases pending before it. What if 10% to 20% of them can demonstrate the same Mt disease and same set of facts as those in the conceded case? Would the government be obliged to concede 500, or even 1,000 cases? What impact would that have on public opinion? And is there enough money currently in the vaccine injury fund to cover so many settlements?

When asked for a comment last week about the court settlement, a spokesman for HHS furnished the following written statement:

"DVIC has reviewed the scientific information concerning the allegation that vaccines cause autism and has found no credible evidence to support the claim. Accordingly, in every case under the Vaccine Act, DVIC has maintained the position that vaccines do not cause autism, and has never concluded in any case that autism was caused by vaccination."

3) If the government is claiming that vaccines did not "cause" autism, but instead aggravated a condition to "manifest" as autism, isn't that a very fine distinction?

For most affected families, such linguistic gymnastics is not so important. And even if a vaccine injury "manifested" as autism in only one case, isn't that still a significant development worthy of informing the public?

On the other hand, perhaps what the government is claiming is that vaccination resulted in the symptoms of autism, but not in an actual, factually correct diagnosis of autism itself.

4) If the government is claiming that this child does NOT have autism, then how many other children might also have something else that merely "mimics" autism?

LISTEN TO ME NOW!
Kleptin

Con

First and foremost, I hereby nullify my opponent's first round in its entirety because the amount of thimerosal used as a preservative has not only been reduced over the past 70 years, it has been foregone entirely.

I repeat: There is no more thimerosal in vaccines for childhood viruses.

Vaccination is a fairly simple process. I'm sure most of us understand how they work. Our immune systems recognize pathogens that it was dealt with before. Upon discovery, the proper antibodies are created and the pathogen is destroyed before any damage comes to the body.

Getting sick once is still too much though. Weakened versions of the virus are injected into the bloodstream and the immune system attack it. Of course, there is no damage, but now the patient is immune to the disease and will never have to have it.

Vaccination is one of the most important tools of public health. My opponent is trying to give a reason why the risks are *much* higher than the benefits. I have already eliminated his first argument.

As it stands, I see no risks at all in vaccination and quite a few benefits.

It is now up to my opponent to tip the scales.
Debate Round No. 1
Solarman1969

Pro

The bottom line is that the feds have given up without a fight and settled

the Autism rates are up about 10000% in just two generations- the rates are about 1000 times higher in vaccinated vs unvaccinates

SIDS is UNKNOWN in unvaccinated infants, and is ALWAYS within 2 weeks of vaccinations being administered

there are 1000s of cases of children coming down with illness or being permanently retarded from massive vaccinations at a young age

my child was personally affected - she got ITP

If youre such a medical expert (you are a LIAR just by your tag line and age) why dont you explain to me what ITP is and the causes and cures

If you cant , it proves youre just a government hack liar

More government settlements to come

More coverups to come

More govenment lies to come

DONT VACCINATE YOUR INFANTS !

you have been warned

SOLARMAN
Kleptin

Con

"The bottom line is that the feds have given up without a fight and settled"

No, that's not the bottom line. The bottom line is whether that means anything or not. And I don't think you made any substantial connection at all.

"the Autism rates are up about 10000% in just two generations- the rates are about 1000 times higher in vaccinated vs unvaccinates"

Yes, but they fell ever since the mercury compound was removed.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com...

So this doesn't help your point that we should stop vaccinating our children. The vaccines may have been dangerous before, but they're fine now.

"SIDS is UNKNOWN in unvaccinated infants, and is ALWAYS within 2 weeks of vaccinations being administered"

SIDS is unknown everywhere. A British study showed that vaccinations may have helped to PREVENT SIDS though. And the chance of your kid dying from SIDS is lower than the chance of your kid dying from diseases that vaccines defend against.

"there are 1000s of cases of children coming down with illness or being permanently retarded from massive vaccinations at a young age"

Actually, there is no direct correlation. And even if it were so, my argument still stands. Vaccines are safe today.

"my child was personally affected - she got ITP"

I'm sorry, but I don't see the correlation and how you can assume that.

"If youre such a medical expert (you are a LIAR just by your tag line and age) why dont you explain to me what ITP is and the causes and cures"

In order for me to be a liar, I would first have to tell a lie, wouldn't I? I never said I was a medical expert Solarman. I'm just a pharmacy student with a pretty good grasp of Biochemistry. But I think this is what you meant

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Idiopathic Thrombocytopenic Purpura. No connection with vaccines at all.

"If you cant , it proves youre just a government hack liar"

No, if I can't, it just means I can't read your mind.

"More government settlements to come

More coverups to come

More govenment lies to come

DONT VACCINATE YOUR INFANTS !

you have been warned

SOLARMAN"

You're not a superhero. And I know who you are, you don't have to sign your name to look cool.

Not that this matters, but the government doesn't make any money off vaccines. They lose money off vaccines. Why would they want to defend it? The compensation money doesn't come from deep pockets, they come from our taxes. They won't care about covering this up. There are plenty of other things the government covers up, with good purpose. Vaccine related illnesses aren't one of them.

Besides, you still have yet to show that vaccines are still dangerous today. The data shows that the mercuric compound was removed, and the autism rates are dropping.

I await your final response.
Debate Round No. 2
Solarman1969

Pro

you are a government lying hack or simply a young foolish idiot who thinks hes smart because hes taken a couple years of pre-med.

proof

I will simply quote your profile first

Joined: January 17, 2008
Online: Right Now
City: Mong Kok (lie)
State: ---Miscellaneous--- (lie)
Country: Hong Kong
Gender: male (true)
Age: 118 Years (lie)
Sign: Virgo (?)
Education: Some College (prob true)
Ethnicity: Asian
Salary: Less Than $25,000
Orientation: Heterosexual
Profession: Student
Faith: Agnostic

Now lets look at your lies in the arguments

1. "First and foremost, I hereby nullify my opponent's first round in its entirety because the amount of thimerosal used as a preservative has not only been reduced over the past 70 years, it has been foregone entirely."

"I repeat: There is no more thimerosal in vaccines for childhood viruses."

the Truth :

Thimerosal, a mercury containing preservative has NOT been completely removed. it is still present, along with many other DANGEROUS preservatives, many of which are NOT regualted and approved by the FDA, in vaccines

More importantly , the ISSUE IS NOT VACCINES!

the issue at hand is the INJECTING OF VERY YOUNG INFANTS WITH TONS OF FOREIGN DNA AND OVERHWLEMING THE IMMUNE SYSTEM. This commonly causes severe reactions , including encephalthic reactions, swwlling , irritation and seizures.

most of the time these are NOT BLAMED onthe vaccinations

the government is LYING AND COVERING UP this information

this is for two reasons

(1) they are do gooders from hell - and will continue to err even after contrary evidence comes forth

(2) profits- Vaccines are a $ 15 BILLION dollar a year industry- and they are trying to introdcuce tons more!

YOUR NEXT LIE

my quote

"the Autism rates are up about 10000% in just two generations- the rates are about 1000 times higher in vaccinated vs unvaccinates"

your quote

"Yes, but they fell ever since the mercury compound was removed."

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com......

So this doesn't help your point that we should stop vaccinating our children. The vaccines may have been dangerous before, but they're fine now.

ANSWER : you are repeating the government HACK lies

question: why did the government just SETTLE the FIRST of 4900 + CASES ?

AND try and keep it HUSH HUSH QUIET HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?

YOUR NEXT LIE

"SIDS is unknown everywhere. A British study showed that vaccinations may have helped to PREVENT SIDS though. And the chance of your kid dying from SIDS is lower than the chance of your kid dying from diseases that vaccines defend against"

THIS IS A BOLD FACED LIE

SIDS IS CAUSED BY THE POOR BABY BEING OVERWHELMED BY THE FOREIGN DNA, GOING INTO SHOCK AND DYING

THE LYING BASTARDS FROM HELL IN THE GOVERNMENT HAVE SAID FOR YEARS "WE DONT KNOW WHAT CAUSES SIDS (AND AUTISM AND ITP)

YOUR NEXT LIE

i SAID "there are 1000s of cases of children coming down with illness or being permanently retarded from massive vaccinations at a young age"

YOU SAID

Actually, there is no direct correlation. And even if it were so, my argument still stands. Vaccines are safe today.

OH REALLY? SAYS YOU ???????

WHAT KIND OF EXPERT ARE YOU MR 118 YEAR OLD LIAR?

I DONT TRUST YOU AS FAR AS I CAN SPIT

YOUR NEXT LIE

i SAID

"If youre such a medical expert (you are a LIAR just by your tag line and age) why dont you explain to me what ITP is and the causes and cures"

In order for me to be a liar, I would first have to tell a lie, wouldn't I?

YOU HAVE TOLD MANY , AS EVIDENCED HERE

I never said I was a medical expert Solarman. I'm just a pharmacy student with a pretty good grasp of Biochemistry. But I think this is what you meant

SO HOW CAN YOU BE 118 THEN, LIAR?

SO NOW YOU ARE JUST A KID WITH SOME BACKGROUND AND YOU ARE GOING TO WEIGH IN AS AN EXPERT ON THESE SUBJECTS WITH YOU OPINION?

YOUR NEXT LIE

You're not a superhero. And I know who you are, you don't have to sign your name to look cool.

YOU DONT KNOW ME AT ALL

AND I AM A SUPERHERO

Not that this matters, but the government doesn't make any money off vaccines.

PRIVATE CORPORATIONS MAKE BILLIONS

They lose money off vaccines.

BOLD FACED LIE

Why would they want to defend it? The compensation money doesn't come from deep pockets, they come from our taxes. They won't care about covering this up. There are plenty of other things the government covers up, with good purpose. Vaccine related illnesses aren't one of them.

THE GOVERNMENT FORCES THE ISSUE AND CONVINCES ALL NEW PARENTS TO FALL IN LINE

IT IS PURE EVIL FROM THE DO GOODERS FROM HELL

YOUR FINAL STATEMENT

"Besides, you still have yet to show that vaccines are still dangerous today. The data shows that the mercuric compound was removed, and the autism rates are dropping."

Here are plenty of references

http://www.know-vaccines.org...

http://www.nap.edu...

U.S. Government Concedes Vaccines Cause Autism

Monday, March 3, 2008 9:36 AM

http://www.newsmax.com...

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, the federal agency that oversees the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), recently conceded the first vaccine-autism case.

This case was filed in the no-fault National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program as part of the Autism Omnibus proceedings in the U.S. Federal Court of Claims.

It was one of the first three cases chosen that alleged Thimerosal in childhood vaccines significantly contributed to a child developing autism.

Clifford Shoemaker, of Shoemaker and Associates of Vienna, Virginia, is the attorney of record in the Hanna Poling v. Secretary of HHS (case: 02-1466V).

Experts filing on behalf of the petitioner, Hanna Poling, included pediatric neurologist, Dr. Andrew Zimmerman of Johns Hopkins University, and Maryland geneticist and epidemiologist, Dr. Mark Geier of the Genetic Centers of America.

This concession shows the dishonesty of the continual media spin coming from public health officials and others who maintain there is no evidence that Thimerosal, or any other part of any vaccine, has ever caused autism or, for that matter, has harmed anyone in any way.

The facts are that the Vaccine Compensation Act has already compensated over 2,000 individuals who proved that they were harmed by vaccines, resulting in settlements of nearly two billion dollars.

Additionally, hundreds of peer-reviewed scientific/medical articles from some the world's best universities have long implicated Thimerosal in vaccines as a causal factor in neurodevelopmental disorders including autism.

Furthermore, in 2003, the U.S. House of Representatives' Government Reform Committee, after a 3.5-year investigation, concluded that Thimerosal caused the autism epidemic and that the FDA and health authorities were guilty of "institutional malfeasance" in covering it up.

Evidence supporting the connection between mercury and autism include:

1. Published studies from the US and France showing that urinary porphyrins, a biomarker for body-burden of mercury, are elevated in patients diagnosed with autistic disorders (http://www.mercury-freedrugs.org...).

2. A published study by researchers at Harvard University that found twice as much mercury and oxidative stress in the brains of those with an autism diagnosis as found in the brains of those who were normal.

3. A study from the US showing a significant relationship between increasing blood mercury levels and an increased risk of a diagnosis of an autistic disorder.

4. Numerous papers by independent researchers showing a link between increasing mercury exposure from childhood vaccines
Kleptin

Con

My statistics are of no concern in this debate. I made up fake information because I am an investigative officer for the Department of Homeland Security and I have been tracking your propaganda for some time now. I know your address and I will be sending a few of my men to visit you shortly. I'm fairly sure that you're some terrorist hack.

"Thimerosal, a mercury containing preservative has NOT been completely removed"

Yes it has. I provided links that show it. Any evidence you provide just show that you're some terrorist hack trying to destroy our nation by convincing people not to vaccinate their kids.

"the issue at hand is the INJECTING OF VERY YOUNG INFANTS WITH TONS OF FOREIGN DNA AND OVERHWLEMING THE IMMUNE SYSTEM."

Foreign DNA has no way to access cells, they just float around. The immune system doesn't really do much. Most of the action is done by enzymes that see the DNA and break it down, much like scrap metal workers. It's impossible for DNA to enter the cell in its free state. It needs complicated machinery or a membrane for that.

"the government is LYING AND COVERING UP this information"

You're a terrorist, and you're making this information up.

"(2) profits- Vaccines are a $ 15 BILLION dollar a year industry- and they are trying to introdcuce tons more!"

Yes. We spend (as tax payers) money on the vaccines for everyone. Vaccines aren't really produced and sold on the free market by private companies. The government pays for their creation. If vaccines were really harmful, then the government wouldn't shoot itself in the foot like that.

Besides, you lie because you're a terrorist hack.

"ANSWER : you are repeating the government HACK lies"

You're just repeating the terrorist hack lies. I have a source, you don't.

"question: why did the government just SETTLE the FIRST of 4900 + CASES?
AND try and keep it HUSH HUSH QUIET HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?"

Because studies take a long time to confirm? You don't work for the government dealing with terrorist hacks like I do, so you wouldn't know. But you will after we brainwash you to work for us.

"THIS IS A BOLD FACED LIE"

No, that was normal font. It was neither bold nor italicized. And it certainly wasn't a lie. Only terrorist hacks like you lie. But we'll arrest you soon so no worries. As I have said before, Foreign DNA is very easily destroyed by the body. It does no harm. That's like saying cotton balls cause heart disease. Stop spreading your terrorist hack lies.

"In order for me to be a liar, I would first have to tell a lie, wouldn't I?

YOU HAVE TOLD MANY , AS EVIDENCED HERE"

Nope. None of my arguments were ever disputed with evidence. I can call you a pink llama and you wouldn't become a pink llama. You can call my arguments lies, but you haven't disproven them. That's common for terrorists trying to argue their way out of trying to destroy our beautiful nation.

"SO HOW CAN YOU BE 118 THEN, LIAR?"

My background/profile information has nothing to do with my arguments. This is debate 101, Ad hominem attack. Besides, you're a terrorist hack. How can anyone trust anything that you say?

"SO NOW YOU ARE JUST A KID WITH SOME BACKGROUND AND YOU ARE GOING TO WEIGH IN AS AN EXPERT ON THESE SUBJECTS WITH YOU OPINION?"

Are you aware that my knowledge greatly surpasses yours?

"YOU DONT KNOW ME AT ALL

AND I AM A SUPERHERO"

No you're not. I have all your information and internet activity sitting in this folder on my desk. You're a terrorist and a threat to our nation.

"PRIVATE CORPORATIONS MAKE BILLIONS"

From the government. The government pays the money. You think the government wants to make rich people richer for no reason? Econ 101.

"Here are plenty of references

http://www.know-vaccines.org......

http://www.nap.edu......

U.S. Government Concedes Vaccines Cause Autism

Monday, March 3, 2008 9:36 AM

http://www.newsmax.com...;

All of that stuff is talking about the mercuric compounds in the vaccines. I've already shown you that they were removed from childhood vaccines. You don't listen because you're too busy making dangerous weapons and plotting other terrorist things.

So far, you've offered no evidence that we should stop using vaccines TODAY. All those terrorist hack lies you spouted just show that the compounds cause autism. Sure, I'll give you that. But there aren't any more. And I invalidated your foreign DNA with simple biochemistry.

You have no argument. When my men arrest you, they don't have to read you your rights, by the way. Just hope you know that. We should be coming in a little after lunch.
Debate Round No. 3
34 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Solarman1969 8 years ago
Solarman1969
The case goes to trial today, Mr establishment

Lets see what a COURT OF LAW has to say, how about THAT?

5000 families whose Childrens lives were ruined by the overzealous vaccination nuts finally get their say after 15 years of denials, lies and delays by the Mainstream medico-pharmaceutical establishment

Facts are facts- the vaccine industry is ruining lives

that is no conspiracy
Posted by LR4N6FTW4EVA 8 years ago
LR4N6FTW4EVA
Solarman, advocating conspiracy theories is not usually a way to win debates.
Posted by Solarman1969 8 years ago
Solarman1969
Bottom line is the argument here is not just about the risk of autism, which is the new term to cover a wide range of mentally disabled kids

the infant immune system is FRAGILE and should NOT be assaulted by the stress of tons of foreign and dangerous vaccines and preservatives

Read this from www.imva.info

But most of that has been an illusion as vaccination programs illustrate. Yes we have been free and freely we have allowed our collective perceptions to be shaped by corporate capitalism, which is controlled by the elite ruling class that has always held the power.

The world-wide market for vaccines will quadruple
from about $4.3 billion in 2006 to more than $16 billion
in 2016, with the biggest boost coming from kids in the US

Kings are gone but their authority and control not only has lived on but has grown to stupendous levels of power. There are more than several elites and they do not always get along and this will lead to unexpected outcomes. The pharmaceutical people are the richest but then again at the top they interlock. In reality it's the military-oil-pharmaceutical-chemical-medical complex and they work quite well together to make life on earth more dangerous and painful
Posted by Solarman1969 8 years ago
Solarman1969
Once again the moron tartar-sauce tries to inject lies and crap into a discussion

here are the moronic statements

"Autism is not retardation"

"you can always give your child silver which you scrapped off a coin with a car battery in your shed"

"Autism isn't fully understood"

"Autism doesn't give kids superpowers"

Oh the brilliance of tartar sauce!

NOT!
Posted by Mangani 8 years ago
Mangani
Tatarize, I was not advocating the belief in "indigo children" rather the fact that it is believed and accepted by the parents- parents who could otherwise have dead children or diseased children IF their autism can actually be linked to vaccination in the first place. These children and their parents are perfectly happy believing in their "superpowers" as you suggest, but I also pointed out an autistic woman who does have a very high IQ and even invented he own communication device which translates her garbled thoughts into the english language.

Either you misunderstood my statements or you simply wanted to attack me, but my premise is that I'd rather have an autistic child than a child apt to catch a disease he/she could have otherwise been vaccinated for- especially considering the loooowww risk factors, the proof behind the theory (or lack thereof), and the fact that all my children are vaccinated and are pretty intelligent for their ages.
Posted by Tatarize 8 years ago
Tatarize
Wow. It's a battle of wits here and neither of you is armed!*

Autism is not retardation it's simply thinking differently which neurotypicals don't do. There's a good suggestion that autism leads to a small handful of deficits which could be worked around such as reading an IQ test and not mirroring those in society. Solar obviously advocates no vaccines because you can always give your child silver which you scrapped off a coin with a car battery in your shed.

On the Mangani side, Autism isn't fully understood however, what is fully understood is that crap like "Indigo Children" is full of crap. You aren't going to give your child ESP via vaccination. The logic goes like this. Vaccines don't cause autism and implying they do is abhorrent. Autism doesn't give kids superpowers and implying they do is nutty.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

* "The battle of wits" comment is a bit directly personal, I usually direct my comments towards the beliefs of people rather than the people themselves.
Posted by Solarman1969 8 years ago
Solarman1969
I'd much rather have an autistic infant over a dead one.

youre a total idiot then

the choice is between between potentially retarding your infant or taking the chance on these non-threatening diseases for the first few years

you can completely protect your infant from exposure to anything
Posted by Mangani 8 years ago
Mangani
If the risks are between life threatening diseases like meningitis, polio, and others or autism, I'd much rather have an autistic infant over a dead one.

Autism is not fully understood as of yet, and has been deemed a benefit in some cases. Some children (Indigo Children) are thought to have special knowledge, and one autistic child makes videos of herself speaking from a special device she created. She is no less intelligent than any of us, and believes she simply thinks in a different language- hence her creation of a device from which she can communicate in English.

Compare that with children with meningitis, polio, and other diseases who have survived... I'd much prefer the first.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
Come to think of it solarman... since you are advocating change, you are the liberal here. :P
Posted by Tatarize 8 years ago
Tatarize
You mean the people who have sick kids and doesn't understand a causal between having sick kids and everybody getting vaccinated.
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Vote Placed by Robert_Santurri 8 years ago
Robert_Santurri
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Vote Placed by Logical-Master 8 years ago
Logical-Master
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Vote Placed by Kleptin 8 years ago
Kleptin
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Vote Placed by Tatarize 8 years ago
Tatarize
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Vote Placed by TheSkeptic 8 years ago
TheSkeptic
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