The Instigator
17galme
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Dragonfang
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Daleks are the best Doctor Who monster

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Post Voting Period
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after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/19/2013 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,038 times Debate No: 36826
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

17galme

Pro

Hello fellow whovians.
Are daleks the best. By best we mean : tradition and scariness
Please cover these in your points.
First round for acceptance
2nd and 3rd for rebuttal
4th just rebuttal
You choose your monster.
I look forward to the debate!
Dragonfang

Con

I thank my opponent for making this interesting debate.

Of course, the burden of proof fully rests on my opponent's side. I do not need to prove anything, I only need to disprove my opponent's statements in light of the debate.



For the purpose of this debate, I see Daleks as the LEAST scariest monster, and the LEAST in terms of traditions.


As for the monster that I believe that it would fulfill scariness and traditions to the highest degree... It is actually a tie.


#1

<a href=http://ravereader.files.wordpress.com...; />

The Slitheen
Seriously, they can perfectly masquerade as humans, and the concept of Gas-Exchange is terrifying! These are the ultimate crime family, they are big and strong, have a super strong sense of smell, and they can manufacture poison through a finger-nail gun or bad-breath.




#1

<a href=http://stuffershack.com...; />

The cybermen. They don't even need to invade earth. They just have to upgrade us.They represents the human desire to constantly upgrade. They don't feel emotions, and they will make you emotionless too.




These two examples are obviously more scary and have more traditions than a Dalek. In fact, pretty much any examples of a Dr. Who monster is scarier and have more tradition than a Dalek. I can't believe you actually find them scary or think they have tradition. That is quite the opposite.
Debate Round No. 1
17galme

Pro

Hi. Thanks for accepting.

In Round 2 I will prove Daleks are supreme in scariness and power. I will then rebut. Round 3 will be about tradition.
First of all scare factor. Who hasn't hidden behind a couch from the Daleks. They have an extortionate amount of weapons - from the classic exterminate, to where they suck your brain out and leave you as a burnt shell (Army of Ghosts), or the nanocloud (Asylum of the Daleks). Even their voices are creepy.

According to Doctor Robin Bunce, we are scared of Daleks because we fear we will be like them in the future. He says:

"According to their back story, once they were capable of genuine emotion and real moral good.

Now they are heartless brains, shut up in machines, who have forgotten what it means to laugh and no longer think of themselves as individuals.

We recognise the Daleks as evil because they have lost all that we hold most dear.'

Daleks also have unbeatable weaponry and tactics. They beat the Cybermen in Doomsday, and where an integral (if not the main) brain of the Pandorica (The Pandorica opens, The Big Bang)

Now to rebut my opposition. In Boom Town, Blon Fel Fotch Pasameer Day Slitheen (the last remaining Slitheen or Earth) says "... in cases of emergency, when her life depends on it, a female Slitheen can shoot a poison dart from her fingertip..." She has proved my point. In cases of emergency. The Slitheen don't go around killing people by breathing on them, and their Gas-Exchange isn't well hidden. (Farts). They have one obvious weakness, vinegar, just a drop will kill them.

Cybermen. So slow. Honestly, they are easily outrun, and often overlook details. When the Doctor says he can checkmate the "cyberman Doctor" (Nightmare in Silver) in 3 moves, the Cyberman still thinks they are playing the chess game. As I mentioned before, the Daleks beat them in Doomsday. Also, cleaning fluid and gold can kill a cyberman.

So over to you Con.
Dragonfang

Con

I thank my opponent and wishes him luck once again.




In Round 2 I will prove Daleks are supreme in scariness and power. I will then rebut. Round 3 will be about tradition.

I did not agree to debate about who is more powerful. Therefore, any discussion regarding power should not contribute to the result of this debate, but since this debate is about fun I will argue power on the side.
Remember that you need to prove, not present an opinion.


First of all scare factor. Who hasn't hidden behind a couch from the Daleks. They have an extortionate amount of weapons - from the classic exterminate, to where they suck your brain out and leave you as a burnt shell (Army of Ghosts), or the nanocloud (Asylum of the Daleks). Even their voices are creepy.

I testify that I was not scared from Dalek. Neither did I hide behind couches for creatures with I preserve to have zero scare factor like the Daleks.
One of the producers in the video also claims around the 0:20 mark, and I quote: "The Cybermen scared me in a way that the Dalek haven't".


The reddit page shows variety of different points of view. (1) There is little agreement in your resolution.



A top 10 scariest Dr. Who monster list puts Daleks at #9 (Which means they are not the scariest) and calls cybermen scarier.

Cybermen
Another of the Doctor’s famous enemies, and to me, more chilling than the Daleks. They represent the human desire to constantly upgrade technology – they’re the ultimate upgrade. A human brain in a machine that feels no emotion whatsoever. The scary part isn’t that they don’t feel any emotion whatsoever, it’s that they used to.
(2)


An other list calls Daleks non-scary:

Wonderful as Doctor Who always is, some villains are campy, while others - cool though they may be - are not really scary (sorry, Daleks). Then again, some of the monsters the Doctor has faced are downright terrifying. (3)




The reviewer in the second video confirms the existence of this view. Within the 00:37 mark he calls them the most disturbing Dr. Who enemy. Within the 00:57 mark he calls them far scarier than the Daleks.




Thus, we have two obvious options:

1- People who claim that the Daleks did not scare them the most are lying. Which is impossible to prove or disprove. Even if they were wrong, it may be the result of delusion which is also impossible to prove either. I have the same validity if I call you and everyone who claim that Daleks are the scariest liars.

2- These are opinions. Thus, impossible to prove. So we can't prove that Daleks are the best Dr. Who monsters in terms of scariness and tradition.




Seriously, they look like salt & pepper, which is actually quite funny. Their voices are simply hilarious, gotta love the non-sensual demanding British accent.


<a href=http://lanternhollow.files.wordpress.com...; />


I don't care how deadly it is. I see a plunger used as a weapon, I laugh. They gonna suck me to death... Give me a break.
I know they design is suppose to represent inhumanity, or some crap like that, but that does not change the fact that their design is stupid and impractical. Almost everything about a Dalek is funny.



As for the Daleks losing emotions etc... Seriously, that is just frivolous watered down Cybermen. Also, that is no way as evil as Slitheen.
Dalek are generic as hell. "Oh! We hate everybody! We kill everybody! EXTERMINAATE!" I wonder how they can get more superficial than that.

The Slitheen are a crime family that infiltrate the human race (And other races). Their species are unique, their planet have an incomprehensible name which may point to how complex their language is. Can you imagine your skin being stolen? Can you imagine everything being sold for scrap after blowing up the planet? Can you imagine the few remaining humans being sold for profit to a zoo? They could be anybody in position of power. All that just to advance their greed and wealth and selfishness. Now that's evil. They don't even represent their race and look how powerful this family became, they are convicts.

The Cybermen actually have a goal. They want to "upgrade" everyone to fulfill their vision of a better and efficient universe. Their represent our dependence on technology and fear of mortality. I mean is that really worth it? Should we sacrifice being human? That is a deep question. They are potentially unstoppable. Found a weakness? The Cyberman you just destroyed have transmitted that weakness so the rest of the Cybermen can adapt and become immune, they don't even need to go to a work bench, they are their body is that advanced to upgrade on the fly (Nightmare in Silver). Out of no where, a tiny Cybermite can latch onto you and turn you into a loyal cyborg before you know it.



Daleks also have unbeatable weaponry and tactics. They beat the Cybermen in Doomsday, and where an integral (if not the main) brain of the Pandorica (The Pandorica opens, The Big Bang)

The reason their armor and weapons were made overpowered is because their design is useless. What tactics do they have? The fact that they have time traveling technology and not conquered the universe shows how incompetent they are.
Newer models of Cybermen can speed blitz casually through their lasers and punch their telescope or disable them.


(4)




Now to rebut my opposition. In Boom Town, Blon Fel Fotch Pasameer Day Slitheen (the last remaining Slitheen or Earth) says "... in cases of emergency, when her life depends on it, a female Slitheen can shoot a poison dart from her fingertip..." She has proved my point. In cases of emergency. The Slitheen don't go around killing people by breathing on them, and their Gas-Exchange isn't well hidden. (Farts). They have one obvious weakness, vinegar, just a drop will kill them.

The mechanism fits them. It allows for survival and creation of offspring, it also contributes to being less detectable. They are a crime family. They achieve their goals without anyone having to know about it... Until it is too late. They have used more advanced technology in the Sarah Jane Adventures that allows better gas compression and slim skin suits (The Lost Boy). My point stays, they are lethal, as well as stealthy and cunning. They are smart enough to make lht speed travel. As for the vinegar, are you in a kitchen? Do you have enough time to search for it before they smell where you are and pin point your location? They can determine your physical attributes and emotional states, an ability needed for anything deserving the title of "Ultimate hunter".


Cybermen. So slow. Honestly, they are easily outrun, and often overlook details. When the Doctor says he can checkmate the "cyberman Doctor" (Nightmare in Silver) in 3 moves, the Cyberman still thinks they are playing the chess game. As I mentioned before, the Daleks beat them in Doomsday. Also, cleaning fluid and gold can kill a cyberman.

I am a bit confused. You call them slow but mention (Nightmare in Silver). Cybermen are bullet time speedsters, you can check the first and second video. The only reason the Doctor was able to "Checkmate" a planner is because he lied and broke his word deliberately, which is quite dishonorable and distasteful.


Anyways. My opponent focused on power which is unrelated to the resolution and debatable. The Cybermen can easily upgrade and adapt, they will simply analize and exploit the Dalek's weaknesses creating an expanding gap of power in favour of the Cybermen. We know little about Slitheen, but they are technologically advanced and deceivingly dangerous.

BoP is on you and you need to maintain it.





(1) http://www.reddit.com...
(2) http://popweasels.blogspot.ae...
(3) http://sweethenrietta.blogspot.ae...
(4) http://adamwithers.deviantart.com...
Debate Round No. 2
17galme

Pro

Hello. I will now talk about tradition.

This is a simple point. Daleks have been around ever since the second episode ever screened. They are the only monsters to faced every regeneration of the Doctor. Hence my case, the are iconic.

You talked about opinions. Your top 10 scariest monster list is another opinion. You can't tell me that my arguments are simply opinions, when you are using them as points. Anyway, isn't this debate about opinions. Ans as you said "... So we can't prove Daleks are the bes Dr Who monsters..."

Yes they do look like salt and pepper shakers but consider the first cybermen. You only have to google them to find pictures of people very obviously dressed up in silver leggings with cloth faces. Really? Not very scary. They look like they are wearing socks on their faces. And although the cybermen's design has improved (thankfully) they keep changing. Daleks have stayed the same ever since the 60s.

"As for the Daleks losing emotions etc... Seriously, that is just frivolous watered down Cybermen"
Since the cybermen came after Daleks, Cybermen are obviously watered down Daleks.

The Slitheen are evil, yes. But aren't Daleks mass-murdering innocent humans for no reason (The PartingOf The Ways) just as evil. They knew full well where the Doctor was, yet they chose to kill civilians on Satellite 5.

"The Cybermen actually have a goal..."
So do the Daleks. As the Doctor has said countless times "They want everything to be Dalek" Davros' reality bomb is proof of that.

The Daleks needed someone who had travelled through the Time Vortex before their Genesis Ark could open. Cybermen don't even have time travel technology.

We are talking about Doctor Who , not Torchwood or the Sarah Jane Adventures, although that is a valid point.
Dragonfang

Con

This is a simple point. Daleks have been around ever since the second episode ever screened. They are the only monsters to faced every regeneration of the Doctor. Hence my case, the are iconic.


Every monster can be considered iconic, do we have to take history lessons in order to determine something as iconic? The most important thing I find iconic in Daleks is how they make me laugh.


You talked about opinions. Your top 10 scariest monster list is another opinion. You can't tell me that my arguments are simply opinions, when you are using them as points. Anyway, isn't this debate about opinions. Ans as you said "... So we can't prove Daleks are the bes Dr Who monsters..."


Wow. My point was delevered better than expected... Is this a concession, considering that the debate topic is proving that Daleks are the best Dr. Who monsters?


Yes they do look like salt and pepper shakers but consider the first cybermen. You only have to google them to find pictures of people very obviously dressed up in silver leggings with cloth faces. Really? Not very scary. They look like they are wearing socks on their faces. And although the cybermen's design has improved (thankfully) they keep changing. Daleks have stayed the same ever since the 60s.


You are welcome to tell me how is that a good thing. The Dalek's design remain impractical. It is just like a producer saw a trashcan at the corner of his eyes when thinking of an enemy. Cybermen are about upgrading; the Cybermen's early look is cool. They maintained theiy "Upgrade" angle, which means they remain better.



<a href=http://botisrpg.files.wordpress.com...; />



"As for the Daleks losing emotions etc... Seriously, that is just frivolous watered down Cybermen"
Since the cybermen came after Daleks, Cybermen are obviously watered down Daleks.


I am not talking about who is older. The Daleks are still more human than the Cybermen, like it or not. Apparently, the Daleks have compulsory reverse anger management conducted in whatever planet they mutated from. They have the looks and the personality that fits "non-sense hilarious" like a glove.



The Slitheen are evil, yes. But aren't Daleks mass-murdering innocent humans for no reason (The PartingOf The Ways) just as evil. They knew full well where the Doctor was, yet they chose to kill civilians on Satellite 5.


There you have it folks. The Daleks have no reason or purpose but to roll skater around screaming "Exterminaate!1!" for no reason at all. The recipe for boring, I am not even sure if it is a cliche' since I don't watch boring stuff often..
How do you know they are evil? Maybe it is their nature and instinct they are programmed to do. Maybe the junkyard worker who came up with the design thought they were destined for great things. Maybe the hallf-baked emotion delete is no coincidence and is meant for the greater good of the universe. Maybe the universe is better with the Daleks, but nobody knows because they have no purpose. They are neutral as they have no choice. HOWEVER... There is no reason to not believe they are shallow as an empty rain gauge.



"The Cybermen actually have a goal..."
So do the Daleks. As the Doctor has said countless times "They want everything to be Dalek" Davros' reality bomb is proof of that.


Oh sorry! I meant a "Decent goal". A "Comprehensible goal". Not "Oh! We hate everybody! We kill everybody! EXTERMINAATE!".
What is the end goal? And why is it evil?



The Daleks needed someone who had travelled through the Time Vortex before their Genesis Ark could open. Cybermen don't even have time travel technology.


And it took the Doctor like what? Five minutes to cancel the whole Genesis Ark thing?
The Daleks have time travel comparable to Tarvis. (1) Time travel is suppose to be one of the most overpowered weapons available and they couldn't finish the job. So much for one of the most intelligent races of the galaxy. This is an outrage.
The Doctor acknowledges that the universe is changed forever if Cybermen acquires time travel technology (video).





(1) http://tardis.wikia.com...

Debate Round No. 3
17galme

Pro

17galme forfeited this round.
Dragonfang

Con

I extend my arguments.
My opponent have yet to prove his resolution, and it seems that he missed the boat.

Vote Con.
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by 17galme 4 years ago
17galme
Sorry for the forfeit, I've been REALLY busy lately.

xD
Posted by jessie263 4 years ago
jessie263
you guys are all wrong the peg dolls are bye far the scariest
No votes have been placed for this debate.