The Instigator
Danielle
Pro (for)
Tied
47 Points
The Contender
Vi_Veri
Con (against)
Tied
47 Points

Danielle should remain friends with Sadie.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 21 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/17/2010 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,089 times Debate No: 11218
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (47)
Votes (21)

 

Danielle

Pro

== Introduction =

I'd like to thank my gracious and esteemed opponent in advance for accepting this debate. Because DDO prides itself on being a platform to debate subjects of all varieties, I decided to bring a somewhat personal (though not touchy) scenario to a public forum for civil discussion. In other words, this challenge is for fun and simply for the sake of a friendly debate over an issue we've had differing views on.

== Auxiliary Issues ==

Danielle = theLwerd

Vi = Danielle's girlfriend

Sadie = Pseudonym for privacy

BACKGROUND: Sadie is a friend of Danielle's. One day while fairly intoxicated, Sadie very inappropriately tried to make out with Danielle persistently in the bathroom of a bar despite Danielle's girlfriend (Vi) being right outside, and despite Sadie knowing that Danielle and Vi were in a committed and monogamous relationship. Though furious, Vi respected Danielle's plea to not start a scene or fight (even if it was only verbal and fairly quiet) at the bar. Her reasoning, in short, was that it wasn't a big deal based on the nature of her and Sadie's relationship; that she would talk to Sadie herself at another time; etc.

Taking a deeper look, there are additional reasons Danielle feels she should still be able to remain friends and friendly with Sadie despite the fact that Sadie has made a mistake in the past. If my opponent accepts this debate, we shall discuss whether or not Danielle should be able to remain friends/friendly with Sadie in the future or whether loyalty to her girlfriend should override any chance of her and Sadie continuing their relationship. This discussion will operate under the basis that other friendships and relationships in each other's lives as they stand in the current day are relevant, and that interactions with our ex's - past or present - is irrelevant.

== Closing ==

If my opponent would like to ask any questions, make any additional confirmations, etc, she should ask me about them first in the comments section of this debate. Once we agree upon what any additional information might be, Con should accept the debate, and agree to the terms and conditions as described here in R1 as well as any mutual additions we might have made in the comments section. Then I will begin discussion in R2. Thanks again to my lovely opponent for accepting, and I wish you luck in this light-hearted debate! :)
Vi_Veri

Con

Accepted. Continue.
Debate Round No. 1
Danielle

Pro

Thank you, Con, for accepting this debate. Please be aware that I will be using the terms my/mine, theLwerd's and Danielle's name interchangeably throughout this debate (all of which refer to me) so excuse the references jumping from 1st to 3rd person - haha - thanks again, and good luck!

== More Background ==

At around 1 pm. on Thursday, February 26, 2009, Vi told me a story involving her and her best friend Mason (again - a pseudonym used for privacy). She probably doesn't remember this conversation, but I do. Anyway, Vi told me about her last trip to North Carolina to see her friend Mason. She had planned on seeing her girlfriend at the time who was in the military stationed somewhere close by. Mason obviously knew that Vi was there to see her girlfriend as well as him, as she had plans to see her girlfriend while there.

Despite this, they were cuddling at some point (gentlemen, if you're thinking that you wouldn't want your girlfriend cuddling with another man while in a relationship with you, I'm sure you're not alone) and for some reason Mason felt the need to start touching Vi and proceeded to start kissing her. He didn't get very far, but what happened after that is almost entirely irrelevant to my case. For now I'd like to bring back the original issue: Danielle and Sadie.

== Con's Argument ==

In real life, Con's argument has been that Sadie is a horrible and detestable person for daring to try and make out with Danielle. Con has said that for Sadie to do such a thing when Sadie knew damn well that Danielle was very in love and committed was not only inappropriate but downright disrespectful to both Danielle and her girlfriend. Now while I can agree that all of these things are true, there are several factors which make me believe that I can still be friends with Sadie...

== Pro's Arguments ==

1. Sadie was Danielle's roommate during their freshman year in college; we met 5 years ago. As most people know, this is a very exciting bond - it's both people's first time living away from home, essentially on their own, etc. You share a room with this person and subsequently spend most of your free time with them. As such, you naturally become close friends and the togetherness makes it almost seem like family. Sadie and I were no exception. We used to hang out all the time and grew to be very close. Most importantly we had (and still have) SO MUCH FUN together; she brings out a side in me that I can only experience with her just because of how our 2 personalities click together and what we can bring out in one another.

2. After living together, Sadie and I pledged the same co-ed fraternity together. Now most people here probably don't know a lot about how fraternities work let alone mine (which is incredibly unique from every other frat in the country). Greek Life aside, I think it's common knowledge that the bond you have with your fraternity Brothers and Sisters goes without saying. Now the bond you have with your PLEDGE SIBLINGS (the people you pledge with) is even stronger, as you went through months of Hell WITH those people thus strengthening your relationship through rough experiences and helping each other through, etc. Furthermore, it's almost a Greek rule that you espouse extreme loyalty to your Brothers and Sisters, as that is what much of the fraternity itself is built on and the kind of treatment in relationships that you expect to have while pledging and becoming a member. That said, it doesn't mean that you should let other people in your frat (or sorority) walk all over you without repercussion. It just means that this is supposed to be a life-long bond and as such, people are encouraged to work their stuff out rather than just walk away.

3. Sadie and Danielle's relationship is a hilarious one. They bring out a certain light-hearted childishness in each other; there's always a good time to be had. I'd say that Sadie is one of my closest friends in terms of being someone that I go to for humor, a quick pick-me-up and sometimes a more thorough and meaningful chat. Naturally she has been the person I leaned on while going through some difficult break-ups; I ask her for advice and I ask her for a good chat from time to time when we happen to see each other online. Considering we don't live in the same state anymore (and even when we did), I'd say that I average seeing her about 4 times a year now.

4. So here we are at the meat and potatoes of my argument. I'm sure most of you have been able to see where I was going with this already. If Con's argument is that I shouldn't be friends with Sadie because Sadie (a) disrespected my relationship by disrespecting my girlfriend, and (b) did so by actually making a move on me, then, what exactly is Con's excuse for remaining not only friends but BEST friends with Mason? Yes, these 2 love birds (sorry - I couldn't resist) still talk every. single. day. either through AIM, text, Facebook or all of the above. I'd say a relationship may even become borderline obsessive when Mason feels the need to text Vi about every new topic of conversation he has with a new girl he meets. But that aside, as this isn't meant to turn into a personal attack, I genuinely do NOT see a difference in behavior and relationships. If Vi can remain friends with Mason, I should be able to remain friends with Sadie.

Yes, what Sadie did was wrong: cornering me in a bar while my girlfriend was right outside and trying to kiss me. However, I don't see how it's any different or better to have your guy friend who you trust come on to you WHILE YOU HAVE A GIRLFRIEND that he also knew you were in love with and committed to. It wasn't any less disrespectful that Vi was there; in fact I'd say it was LESS respectful for Mason to do it when Vi's girlfriend wasn't there TO make a scene even if she wanted to. Not only that, but it took advantage of Vi and put her in a very uncomfortable spot since she was 1,000 miles away from home and staying at the person's HOUSE who had just put her in that position.

Furthermore, while not exactly a stellar excuse, Sadie was completely intoxicated which Vi can verify. Sure intoxication isn't a good defense in a court of law, but I think ANYONE with any drinking experience whatsoever can testify that your judgment is severely impaired while drunk thus causing you to do things that you normally would not do [1]. So, since Sadie has never done this while she was NOT intoxicated, we can assume that this is behavior she would only engage in while drunk because it is obviously wrong. Meanwhile, Mason imposed the same type of disrespectful behavior while completely sober. In other words, he knew exactly what he was doing when consciously choosing to make a move on Vi who was there largely in part to see her girlfriend who happened to be stationed close by.

== Conclusion ==

Both Sadie and Mason's actions were wrong, however, Sadie was drunk and Mason was not. This fact says a lot about their intentions and the meaning behind their actions. Moreover, Vi has decided to not spend her Spring Break with me as originally planned and instead go back to NC to spend time with Mason. Obviously their previous encounter has had no impact on their friendship or her willingness to spend time with Mason. So, why shouldn't Danielle be allowed to remain friends with Sadie? Danielle sees Sadie about the same number of times per year as Vi sees Mason. Additionally, Vi has forgiven Mason based on good faith that he would not do that again, whereas Danielle's decision with Sadie was based on all that and more: a 5 year history as opposed to a 3 year history, and a bond that extends beyond general friendship but that of former roomies and pledge siblings. If Vi can remain friends with Mason, Lwerd should be able to remain friends with Sadie.

I now await my beautiful, esteemed opponent's rebuttal.

[1] http://www.cdc.gov...
Vi_Veri

Con

I'd like to clarify some events to my opponent as she has no idea of a few happenings that did unravel up to Mason's actions in North Carolina. My girlfriend at that point in my life will be named "Jennie" for the purposes of this debate.

A. I had been telling Mason every single day that I wish to break up with Jennie. That I was only visiting her in North Carolina because she would be very angry if I went to visit him there, but didn't stop by and see her while she was stationed only an hour away from his home.

B. Mason and I had both gone through an emotionally traumatic event (the death of my very good friend Emily just 2 weeks prior). He had witnessed her relationship with me and my constant assurance to him that I was going to leave Jennie for Emily. I wasn't emotionally faithful to Jennie, nor did I want to be with her any longer. I cried to him every day about how horrible our relationship was. Emotional and traumatic events bring people very close together (especially the sudden death of a friend our age).

C. Mason knew that I had a hard time breaking up with girlfriends as I had told him many times. I was waiting for Jennie to get back home from her training, waiting a month or two for her to get settled and find a job before breaking the news to her. I was waiting for her to be stable. Mason (and everyone else in my life, including my roommate at the time) urged me to break up with her sooner as she was causing me a lot of emotional stress.
------------------------------

I. As you can see, readers, Sadie was not only assured constantly that Danielle and I were in a committed, loyal relationship, but had me sitting in her presence.

II. Sadie also, not once, but twice, locked herself and Danielle in the bathroom of the bar and tried to make out with her, reassuring Danielle that, "Your girlfriend will never know."

III. The first time this happened, Danielle forcefully told her "No" and that she wasn't interested in making out with Sadie. Sadie, a half an hour later, did it again even after Danielle's denial of her.

IV. After Mason kissed me the first time, and I told him that I was:

A. Completely Gay
B. Not interested in him romantically

He never made another move on me ever again, apologized, and moved on immediately.

V. Sadie also had a girlfriend whom she professed she was in "absolute love with" while we were at the bar. Thus, as Mason wasn't with anyone and I was not emotionally committed to my girlfriend, and both Danielle and Sadie were in relationships were they were in "love" with their partners - Sadie has committed more of a wrong than Mason.

VI. Just because Sadie had drank a few beers doesn't make her excused when she tried to make out with my girlfriend after they talked about how much they loved their partners (and I was sitting right across from Sadie). I can attest, even after being under the influence of alcohol that I would not kiss someone unless I wanted to. If alcohol can be used as an excuse, then the next time any spouse is trashed at a bar, would it be excusable for them to make out or have sex with someone and tell their partner, "I'm sorry honey, I was drunk!" This excuse never flies. It is common knowledge that one still understands their moral code while under the influence. Obviously Sadie does not have a stellar moral code.

VII. Because they had been friends for 5 years, and had this "exceptional relationship", one would think that Sadie would have bounds more respect for Danielle and her girlfriend than she displayed. Even if I am trashed beyond belief, if I am in a committed relationship, and if I respect and care for my friend, I would not try and make out with her while her girlfriend (whom she loves) is sitting right there, and after we have all talked about how much we loved our girlfriends for about an hour.

The only two reasons I can think of that would usher this sort of behavior in would be:

A. Sadie is secretly in love with Danielle.

B. Sadie is a cheater and assumes and or knows Danielle is a cheater also.

VIII. Danielle has never had Sadie apologize to me for disrespecting me, nor am I familiar with Sadie apologizing to Danielle about the situation. Danielle told me not to confront Sadie with it (which makes me angry and makes the whole thing seem shadier). While Mason apologized right away and has never since made a romantic move on me.

IX. Mason is my best friend. We talk about our relationships constantly because we are both interested in that particular topic. When I started talking to/dating Danielle, Mason was updated on our relationship constantly. Just like Danielle talks to her best friend about important things in her life, then I don't see a problem with Mason talking to me about important things in his life (like exciting conversations he's having with a girl he fancies).

X. As for me spending Spring Break with Mason - I asked Danielle, and he begged of me many a time, for her and I to go visit him in North Carolina. He has been asking to meet her ever since we started dating. He was very excited about seeing her, but since we are tight on money, Danielle will be going to see her friends in New York while I will be going to visit him. I asked her many times if she was ok with us taking separate trips, so if she brings this up again - she gave me permission so I don't see a problem. Her coming along is still on the table (I could even work double time to buy her a ticket if she wants). He really wants to meet her and get to know her.

XI. Every time I ask Danielle not to speak to Sadie any longer, she continues to do so. She constantly disrespects my wishes when it comes to this girl. Obviously after the incident that happened, this makes me feel pretty awful.

XII. The first time I met Sadie, she was disrespecting Danielle's Big (whom is her mentor in the fraternity she is a member of, and one's Big is the most important person in the fraternity to them. So if Danielle wants to talk about bonds in the fraternity, Sadie is disrespecting Danielle's most important bond). Sadie also obviously doesn't care about Danielle's fraternity, as the constant remarks Sadie was making about the members and how much she hates the fraternity were off putting and really a stomp to any "bond" they shared because of the fraternity.

XIII. Even though Danielle and her Ex girlfriend (re-named) Amelia went through this "bonding" pledging of their fraternity (they were pledge sisters as well), Danielle hates and wants her dead, and doesn't want her little (the person she is a Big to) to be friends with Amelia. If this appropriate, why isn't what I ask appropriate? Amelia betrayed Danielle, so her little shouldn't befriend Amelia. So, as I was betrayed...

XIV. While Sadie and Danielle were roommates in college, Sadie put Danielle through hell most of the time. She locked her out of her room and made her pay over $200 in fees to keep getting her door opened. She constantly disrespected her and "hated" her even though Danielle didn't do anything to her. People on the floor kept asking Danielle if Sadie was "in love" with her because of this random hating after they had been such "buddies" before this point. All of this behavior combined makes me all the more worried about the situation.

conclusion

Mason has long since apologized for his actions. We were both going through traumatic grief at the loss of our close friend and a woman that I at one time loved and told him I was leaving my girlfriend for. I constantly talked about how I was not in love with Jennie, how I wanted to leave her, and he was well informed of my emotional unfaithfulness to her. Sadie, on the other hand, has yet to apologize to myself and or Danielle for the situation, was well informed of Danielle and I having a committed relationship, and was in my presence at the time of the incident. She also tried to make out with my girlfriend not once, but twice even after a "No"
Debate Round No. 2
Danielle

Pro

Thank you, Con, for your timely response.

== Intro ==

As you can see, Con completely excuses Mason's behavior (a) because Con was too much of a coward to break up with her girlfriend before cheating on her and (b) well... actually, there's no (b). So first off, let it be known that regardless of Con's emotional infidelity, cheating is cheating. Despite any emotional turmoil or how "stressed out" Con's girlfriend made her, that absolutely does not give anyone the right to act as if they are single when they are not. If Con agrees that this behavior was acceptable because Con was no longer in love with her girlfriend, then Con agrees if I am no longer interested in her BUT we're still officially together that it would be appropriate for me to go out and be with other people, or have other people physically come on to me simply because I don't feel like being in my relationship anymore but have decided not yet to inform my significant other of that.

== Rebuttal ==

1. First off, any negative aspects of my relationship with Sadie happened BEFORE we were Sisters and BEFORE we were friends. Since then, Sadie has apologized profusely for any wrong-doing towards me and I have chosen to forgive her. Amelia has never apologized to me and I have never forgiven her. However, if she were to show up at a fraternity function, I would have to respect her presence. So right there the comparison ends - one has apologized to me, and one has not. Furthermore, Con's mistake is assuming that because Sadie does not value or respect the bonds of our fraternity that I must not respect or value them either. This, of course, is false. It's true that Sadie has little reverence for the bond of Sisterhood, however, it means something to ME. This is a bond that I took an oath too and thus I choose to respect it even if everyone else who took the same oath does not. In that way, any argument of Con's about Sadie's commitment to our fraternity is irrelevant.

2. Moreover, Sadie and I frequently talk (and joke) about her harsh words regarding those I care about, ie. my Big. In fact this is a person and issue that comes up quite frequently, and indeed she has apologized and agreed to not say anything mean about my Big (friend) any longer in front of me as well as apologized for putting me in that uncomfortable position. Additionally, I have indeed talked to Sadie about me being 100% committed to Vi AFTER the incident, and Sadie acknowledged and respects this. Con must accept this reality just as I must accept that Mason supposedly apologized to her. Furthermore, Con makes it seem as if Sadie somehow owes Vi an apology. However, in this analogy, that would only be true if Mason has offered Jenny an apology. Since he did not, then in no way is Sadie's lack of apology to Vi relevant.

== Conclusion ==

As you can see, Con has given you absolutely no reason to believe that I should no longer be friends with Sadie... ESPECIALLY since she remains best friends with Mason. Her entire "defense" has been that Mason knew she was emotionally cheating on her girlfriend to begin with; that she and Mason were just sad over the loss of a friend (meaning he was taking advantage of her while she was vulnerable - an even MORE dicky thing to do) and that Mason knew she had been meaning to break up with her girlfriend. However, none of these "defenses" excuse his behavior in ANY way. Ladies and gentlemen, how is Vi being a cheater and Mason capitalizing on that in any way indicative of acceptable? Similarly, Con has offered that Sadie must ASSUME that I am a cheater and tried to capitalize on it. Obviously there is NO DIFFERENCE between these two acts.

So now we move on to Con claiming that Sadie was wrong because Vi was in her presence while attempting to make this move. She also points out that Sadie said, "Your girlfriend will never know." First off, I've already explained that it's MORE cowardly and inappropriate to do this when the person's girlfriend ISN'T around; Vi could have retaliated against Sadie (whether I wanted her to or not) whereas Jenny would have had no opportunity to intervene. Plus, even though Sadie said, "Your girlfriend wouldn't know," here we see Con trying to make it sound as if this is somehow morally inferior whereas Mason was OBVIOUSLY operating under the basis of Vi's girlfriend not knowing since SHE WASN'T THERE. Therefore the only way Danielle or Vi's girlfriend's would have ever known about either of these incidents would be if Danielle or Vi told them... and Danielle did, the SECOND after it happened (which is more than I can say for Vi).

Now, it's true that Sadie tried to do this twice, however, both times were within minutes of each other. Plus, for this we must take into account the fact that Sadie WAS, after all, extremely intoxicated. It wasn't "just a few beers" as Con has implied; Sadie had drank 2 pitchers of beer entirely to herself. As I've said (and sourced), alcohol impairment lowers inhibitions. Con again tries to make herself sound morally superior by noting that she would still be a good girlfriend even if she were drunk... but apparently she's incapable of doing so while sober (as she admitted to cheating) and apparently she thinks it's acceptable for one to take advantage of their friend while they are sober too.

Let's also look at the fact that Con brings up Mason has never made a move on her again. I can easily attest to the fact that Sadie too has never made a move on me since then. Also, while Con tries to make it appear as if Sadie has a crush on me (which is mere speculation with no proof), she conveniently ignores the fact Mason DOES (lol or "did") have a crush on her as she has vocalized and admitted to myself and others on more than one occasion.

Now here Con tries to make it sound as if Mason has some sort of interest in getting to know me since he supposedly invited me to go with her to NC to see him. However, this is irrelevant. You'll note that Mason has NEVER ONCE made ANY attempt to contact me or talk to me directly. Meanwhile, he was apparently "good friends" with Emily whom he has also never met. This means that he clearly made an effort to get to know this girl who *wasn't even Con's girlfriend* though he has never made an iota of an effort to get to know ME - whom Con has been talking to for a year and a half. Not to mention that Con knows I HAVE to go to New York -- I left my friends, my school, my family, my fraternity, and my father who's paralyzed in a rehabilitation facility to MOVE TO BE WITH HER... so unfortunately I don't have the luxury of traveling for pleasure, because if ever I get the opportunity to go somewhere, it's going to be home to go visit my sick father. However, none of this paragraph has to do with the debate. So back to the debate.

The conclusion is quite simple: Con makes excuse after excuse as to why Mason's behavior was acceptable. However, the reality is that regardless of how crappy her former relationship was, SHE WAS STILL IN A RELATIONSHIP. If she doesn't see this as wrong, then she hereby gives myself and anyone permission to physically engage with someone else if one of them thinks the relationship is bad. Heh. Mason took advantage of her by making a move on her during a time when she was sad and vulnerable. He also did so fully knowing that Con is a LESBIAN, whereas Sadie is also a lesbian and she and I have made out before. In drunken haste, she wanted to kiss me because she had always said that I was an amazing kisser. Of course this is wrong. Of course this was disrespectful. However excuses aside, Mason did the same exact thing - only worse. He did it at a bad time, and he did it in a bad way (when Con was staying with him far away from home). He may have apologized to Con, but Sadie apologized to me. My fraternity relationships are important to me so I must morally uphold what I believe regardless of Sadie's opinion.
Vi_Veri

Con

Only a couple of points because I'm sick of losing sleep over this:

I. My behavior with Mason lead him on to think it was acceptable. We cuddled, drank wine, etc. I quite obviously lead him on. But, I do agree with my opponent. His behavior was unacceptable. What he did was wrong. I agree. And yes, I would want him to apologize to Jenny if:

A. I hadn't found out a week later that Jenny had cheated on me 3 times during the course of our relationship (1 week after this Mason incident she broke up with me).

Thus, I lost all respect for Jenny and didn't make Mason apologize to her.

B. Jenny knows about the incident and doesn't care, because, well, she didn't care about me at the time she found out. Nor does she probably care right now. I, Danielle's current girlfriend, however, care very much about the Sadie incident.

II. I am appalled that my opponent would call me a cheater. I dd not make a single physical move toward anyone during my relationship with Jenny. I may have fallen in love with Emily, but I did not ever cheat on Jenny with Emily.

III. My opponent has never brought up this issue she has with Mason with me until this very debate. If she would have discussed this outside of DDO, I may have taken her more seriously. Every time I asked her outside of this debate if she has a problem with Mason, or if he doesn't like me talking to him, she has said that she doesn't have a problem with him doesn't mind me talking to him. I have been quite vocal about her not talking to Sadie.

IV. Danielle's best friend has never made a move to get to know me on a one to one basis as well. I don't hold this against her, though. Mason and I were estranged for a couple of months because, well, I lost contact with everyone in my life for quite a while when I went to New Jersey to be with Danielle for months upon months. I don't have much contact with any of my friends anymore (Danielle can attest to this) as the zero contact lead them to resent me.

Mason and I have started talking again since winter break on a normal level. I've been promising him for about 2 years that I would go visit him again (as he has come here plenty of times and we have hung out). So, this trip has been in the planning for a long, long time.

V. I also don't admire the guilt trip my more than willing girlfriend has offered me about her family and friends. I've gone with her to New York every chance I can manage (which is quite a few times, at least once every other month - sometimes more- and I'm a full time student). I've also, on every single occasion, driven Danielle 16 hours there and back. I am very committed to her seeing her family and friends, and obviously work hard to get her there. I am very appalled that she would give me a guilt trip because I wanted to visit one of my only friends - that I, for the first time in our relationship, wanted to take a trip to see *MY* friend. I never said she couldn't go to New York (as I am obviously letting her go). I offered to work over time to have her come with me to North Carolina to see Mason, and also have the ability to go see her family and friends in New York.

VI. I, Danielle's current girlfriend, think that Sadie should offer me an apology. My opponent would love for you to believe that Sadie was on higher moral ground to do it in "front of me." But I believe this is by far more disrespectful.

A. She didn't kiss Danielle in *front* of me. She tried to make out with her in the bathroom where I couldn't see them. Cowardly.

B. The two attempted make out sessions were more than "minutes" apart. At the least, they were 15 minutes a part, and we were sitting far away from the bathroom. Both times Sadie got up and followed Danielle to the bathroom and attempted to do this.

C. Danielle says that I could have told Sadie off at the bar. But, I hope that Danielle realizes that was there with a fake ID (I could have gotten in lots of trouble), and Danielle had begged me not to do anything. I was respecting her wishes.

VII. And for my last point: I asked Danielle over and over if it was ok for me to go visit my friend in North Carolina. She said it was. If my girlfriend raises an issue, or says she is uncomfortable with me either talking to or visiting Mason, I would gladly respect her wishes and not go visit him in North Carolina. She hasn't brought this up to me at all.

Mason, however, has never disrespected Danielle. He disrespected Jenny, whom doesn't care for an apology.

Sadie disrespected *me*, Danielle's current girlfriend. And I care very much about the incident.

And, as a side note, I know if this had happened between Sadie and Amelia, Danielle would have made Sadie apologize right there at the bar ;)

If Sadie offers me an apology, I don't mind if Danielle and Sadie talk.

If she doesn't offer me an apology, I find her actions insulting to Danielle and I's current relationship.

I offer it to the readers to judge.
Debate Round No. 3
47 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Atheism 6 years ago
Atheism
If this ends in a tie, it would be so fitting.
Posted by Danielle 6 years ago
Danielle
My fraternity is the best thing evarrrr. I don't like other frats :/ Lol well IRL we've worked this out and she's conceded to me and more than made it up to me ;) I wish the votes would reflect that but whatevs. Very interesting though how people seem to go specifically find really old debates that just so happen to be oh so close and vote on them... hmm! My pledge sibs are... okay. I dated one of them, and we're estranged. My pledge class had 3 straight guys, 3 gay guys, 4 straight girls and 4 gay girls. Needless to say when alcohol was involved... yeah. We had some ridiculous times while pledging lol.
Posted by bluesteel 6 years ago
bluesteel
Hm, interesting debate. Not sure if I should vote - I'm pretty sure it would just piss someone off at this point. I will though if L or Vi explicitly ask me to.

L, your fraternity sounds awesome. I can't imagine a co-ed fraternity though; sleeping with your pledge brother would be so weird. Although, that's probably because all of my pledge brothers are guys.
Posted by Danielle 6 years ago
Danielle
... I won this debate.
Posted by Danielle 6 years ago
Danielle
Your comment was too.
Posted by Vi_Veri 6 years ago
Vi_Veri
Unnecessary.
Posted by Danielle 6 years ago
Danielle
Seriously :)
Posted by Vi_Veri 6 years ago
Vi_Veri
........... Seriously...............
Posted by studentathletechristian8 6 years ago
studentathletechristian8
You're both hot ;)
Posted by Danielle 6 years ago
Danielle
Mhm lol I just re-read this debate. I clearly won. And btw my beautiful and esteemed opponent continues to upset me regarding Mason BUT I digress.
21 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by TUF 6 years ago
TUF
DanielleVi_VeriTied
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Total points awarded:20 
Vote Placed by Maikuru 6 years ago
Maikuru
DanielleVi_VeriTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by axM62 6 years ago
axM62
DanielleVi_VeriTied
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Vote Placed by Hurstman 6 years ago
Hurstman
DanielleVi_VeriTied
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Vote Placed by phoenixash 6 years ago
phoenixash
DanielleVi_VeriTied
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Vote Placed by omelet 6 years ago
omelet
DanielleVi_VeriTied
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Vote Placed by wonderwoman 6 years ago
wonderwoman
DanielleVi_VeriTied
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Vote Placed by Rockylightning 6 years ago
Rockylightning
DanielleVi_VeriTied
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Vote Placed by philosphical 6 years ago
philosphical
DanielleVi_VeriTied
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Vote Placed by Danielle 6 years ago
Danielle
DanielleVi_VeriTied
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