The Instigator
Spiritpaw
Con (against)
The Contender
Nanubot
Pro (for)

Dapl police; should they be using water canons in freezing temperatures for the protesters

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/24/2016 Category: People
Updated: 1 week ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 126 times Debate No: 97310
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

Spiritpaw

Con

Hello human, I see we are here to argue, here are the rules. You must have some facts behind your arguments. You must do it for passion, not for the pleasure of other's frustration. (trolls) Also, please be sensible when you do each argument, I don't want this to be insulting to me, or you. If you are in these rules, then lets begin, if not, then vote when I argue with another human. In the first round we will only be stating our stance in the argument.

I stand for con.
Nanubot

Pro

Greetings, and thank you for providing me the chance to provide insight into this issue. I stand for pro, meaning I believe that the police should use force with non-cooperative protestors.
Debate Round No. 1
Spiritpaw

Con

Great, I can"t wait what you will have next, well, good luck.

The use of water canons is inhumane, especially in freezing temperatures. The temperatures, according to this website
(https://www.wunderground.com...). For 8 days from 11/24 to 11/30, (in Fahrenheit)the forecast was 40.5(4.722222) for the average high in those 8 days. The forecast average low was 25.5(-3.75). If we average the two numbers, we will get 32.875. If you want to check my math, you may. Since water freezes at about 32(0), these numbers are very close to this very special one. Remember they are using pressurized water which can go up to 145 psi(according to http://riotcannons.com...). Also, for that water to boil, is about 359(181)(http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com...). The boiling point for "normal water" to boil is 212(100(Why can"t we use Celsius other than Fahrenheit for standard, but whatever, off topic). The water to boil has surprisingly raised by 177(81). This indicates that it"s harder to boil this water, which also indicates that it"s colder, since the molecules are more pressured together, which means it turns a little more solid than its liquid form. (https://www.chem.purdue.edu...) At least it"s not hot water, like the experiment stated on MIT website (https://engineering.mit.edu...).

Still, water that is colder than the "normal water". What will happen first is the person could go under cold shock, which isn"t the most pleasant type(http://www.coldwatersafety.org...).

First you will lose the control of your breathing(which lasts between 2-3 minutes, if you want to get more into it, link above) Second threat, is heart and blood pressure problems. People who have problems with their heart, they are vulnerable to stroke or heart failure. Then the third is mental problems, which is when you start to panic. (link above for more info)

Second is "physical capacitation", which is your muscles becoming weak because of the cold water, here are the symptoms(http://www.coldwatersafety.org...) .

Third, is hypothermia. (http://www.coldwatersafety.org... - http://www.mayoclinic.org...) In mild hypothermia, you may feel nausea, fatigue, or low energy, but that is only a few. (For more, link above) For severe, you may have poor decision making, slurs of words, and clumsiness.(Much like alcohol)

After that, is basically death. I can"t emphasize in that.

You see the facts of what can happen to you if you are in freezing water. This is inhumane! And it"s only the start of winter, it may get even colder. People are going to die because of this. Luckily they wearing jackets. Here is a video of them doing it(http://www.pbs.org...) Like what I stated, I"m against the police using water canons in freezing weather, because it"s inhumane.
Nanubot

Pro

While I do agree it's not the most humane of measures, the police force has already devoted money and time into peacefully asking the protestors to co-operate. Some protestors even turned to violence in rejection of the pipeline, and police had to follow suite. These protestors pose a major safety risk of others around them, setting fires to 'warm themselves' and attempting to bash through police barricades.

I've seen all over twitter cries to 'donate for a noble cause', that noble cause being saving the 'sacred water'. It's their problem if they wish to protest in near-freezing weather, and shouldn't be the problem of people living their lives. If people really cared about their safety, they would flee the scene when police told them to leave. Refusing to co-operate with the police is the same as refusing to pull over when a cop car tells you to.

If not water, they would use 'rubber bullets', 'pepper spray', and eventually, armed force. While the results of spraying water may not be the safest of measures, it is already not safe to be outside in such weather in protest.
Debate Round No. 2
Spiritpaw

Con

I understand, but, they are fighting in what they believe. That pipe is going to carry 470,000 barrels of oil per day. (http://www.daplpipelinefacts.com...) They are afraid the pipe is going to break and poison their water. They are afraid that their children, their children's children, and themselves will develop many diseases like cancer, and will develop mental illnesses. (http://www.amfs.com...) Don't you see? They are fighting for their lives and their children's lives, that is reason enough for them to do this. Also, Prove to me they are being violent, thank you.

Also, according to (http://www.duluthgov.info...), the purpose of the police is to "To ensure preservation of peace and public safety through the enforcement of local, state, and Federal laws, and by providing support and assistance during emergency or crisis situations." What they are doing is the opposite, like what I stated in argument 2.

First of all, the pipeline is going through their reservation, in which they own. (http://usdakotawar.org...) So they are not trespassing, the pipeline is, that is another reason why they are protesting. A reminder, please find sources to back up your opinion.
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Spiritpaw 1 week ago
Spiritpaw
I think I did X3
Posted by Spiritpaw 1 week ago
Spiritpaw
0-0 Thank you so much! :3
Posted by ptosis 1 week ago
ptosis
Excessive Force in Crowd Control should not be used unless the crowd is putting innocent people in imminent danger. A crowd is not necessarily a riot, and that distinction has to be observed. The cops say that it is an ongoing riot to justify use of lethal force.

They were not violently protesting. in the video, (link below), there is no evidence of violent and uncontrolled public behavior. https://youtu.be...

The police thugs are protecting corporate interests to the detriment of citizens. "Folks have a right to be on a public road. It"s absurd that people who"ve been trying to take down the barricade now have their lives at risk. ... unlawful and dehumanizing tactics to subdue peaceful water protectors with tear gas and water cannons." - Goldtooth

Protesters tried to move trucks blocking the Backwater Bridge, saying they were preventing emergency services from accessing the reservation. Authorities say they have left the bridge closed since late October because they are concerned about its structural integrity.

It seems highly insincere reasoning by the police who are standing on the bridge with armored weaponry if such a rickety bridge. The corporate trolls are calculating the blocked bridge will allow the construction to continue. And they are doing it with reckless disregard of human safety and dignity.

Use of force becomes is permitted in self-defense or in defense of another individual or group.
The oppressive or unjust use of power, especially deadly force in this debate is the misunderstanding of the origins of the police and what they were created to do. The police were not created to protect and serve the population. The police were created to use violence to reconcile electoral democracy with industrial capitalism.
Posted by Spiritpaw 1 week ago
Spiritpaw
I hope I didn't scare him.
Posted by Spiritpaw 1 week ago
Spiritpaw
Next time I won't ramble
Posted by Spiritpaw 1 week ago
Spiritpaw
I'm so sorry, I didn't realize i put " instead of '
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