Death Battle: [My Character vs Your Character]
This is a death battle I will debate my chosen character which shall be Urza from the Magic The Gathering Universe against the character my opponent chooses.
1. Your character may be on Superman level feats or higher but not levels like Prismo from Adventure Time.
2. Your character must be possible to kill or defeat.
3. Your character cannot summon allies to help them in this fight.
4. No Prep Time is allowed.
R2: Opening Arguments
R4: Closing Arguments/Conclusion [No Counter Arguing or New points]
1. He does not have world/reality bending abilities such as Prismo, or any omniscient character.
2. He is human, and is possible to be killed.
3. Although he has an ally who would always get in the way if he fought, let's just assume the ally (Genos) has already been defeated and is unable to move or assist in any way.
4. I will try to write as soon as I can and do it off of memory. Are we able to research for specifics of powers?
Thank you for reading, and I'm hoping for a splendid debate.
I thank my opponent for accepting the debate and yes we are able to research for specifics of powers I hope we can both enjoy this debate.
Before I explain who Urza is I need to explain two important things about his character so I will quickly cover what a Planeswalker is and what Pre-Mending means.
I would also like to state that I will not allow Urza to use Time Travel and will prevent Urza from using powerful artifacts such as a Gem he held over the Plane of Serra and consumed the entire Plane into the Gem thus effectively ending the Plane. I will only allow Urza to use his staff and his Magic abilities to prevent him from doing anything extremely unfair.
What is a Planeswalker?
A planeswalker is a individual born with something known as a Spark this spark allows them to travel the Multiverse which means they can go to other worlds and bend their reality (Not reality warping) when I say bend reality I mean that because a Planeswalker comes from a certain world and when they travel to another world it is very highly likely that their magic is so different and strange most consider it to be bending the rules of their world or in this case Plane of existence (In MTG Worlds are called Planes) with a Spark Planeswalker gain more power than they had before and as such become very deadly foes to the average people living on a plane. However Planeswalker we see in Magic The Gathering today such as Jace Beleren or Chandra Nalaar are incredibly weak compared to what Planeswalkers were like in the past before an event called the "Mending" happened.
A Planeswalker is a being that draws their power from mana which is found throughout the Multiverse however there are five types of Mana. I will do a very brief summary of the five types of mana.
Red Mana is often mana used by aggresive people who like to burn and destroy their enemy with rage.
Green Mana is often a form of mana that involves using the nature around you and drawing power from animals and elementals and such.
White Mana is often linked to life, honor and religion it often provides protection and allows you to heal your wounds often used by Clerics, Priest and Knights.
Blue Mana is a form of Mana that is linked to your mind using your mind to cast illusions or counter an opponents spell/attack often used by mind mages.
Black Mana is often linked to Necromancy using killing spells and draining life from others this is often used by Necormancers, Vampires and much more.
It is very possible for a normal Planeswalker to learn and master each type of Mana although not many do most just stay with the type of mana they identify with.
The Mending was an event that happened long after Urza's death and was actually the result of Urza's Time Travel which caused giant holes in space and time which ended up with Planeswalkers having to patch these holes including his own Golem Karn who gave up his Spark to fix what Urza had created (I should note a Planeswalker will die if they lose their Spark however Karn is an exception because he is a Golem and can survive losing his Spark as a result.) The Mending resulted in Planeswalkers being far, far less powerful than they were before the Mending happened hence why Planeswalkers like Jace, Chandra and Gideion are so weak compared to ther Planeswalkers.
I should state taht I believe Saitama has no chance of killing Urza but I believe Saitama's only chance of beating Urza is making Urza surrender which I still believe is unlikely I believe Urza takes this fight 9/10.
I feel like if I changed my character after already accepting, it would be cheating, so I'm going to have to take that 10% chance you said Saitama had in winning. But I would like to thank you for giving me such another generous offer.
Now that you have explained your character, I'll try to explain mine to the best of my ability.
Saitama trained every single day for three years doing a physical workouts. He pushed the limits of his physical body every day and never stopped. He kept the schedule strict, and never wavered from it.
His training regimen is notorious among the fans of OnePunch-Man.
10 km running
Three meals (only a banana as breakfast)
No air conditioner (to strengthen mental resistance)
Every. Single. Day.
This may seem like a joke. How could this be the source of Saitama’s power?
Well, he worked so hard that his entire body began to be in pain, his bones creaked, his muscles ached, and he experienced internal bleeding. He was always on the verge of giving up. But through all of this, he still stuck to the schedule.
His constant pain and pushing of his body’s limits with his difficult training caused his hair to fall out completely by one and a half years of training. (Explaining his baldness.)
Through this, he gained superhuman abilities.
Sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it?
Well, the real reason he gained superhuman abilities was loosely explained in the original manga by ONE as a theory by Dr. Genus. He said that every person has a limiter on their physical bodies that can be broken. The limiter of Saitama’s physical body was broken when he pushed himself so rigorously during his training. His willpower and mindset surpassed those of realism, and in turn, broke the realistic boundaries of his physical body. That is why his power, compared to his physical physique and look, is ridiculous.
Saitama has the ability to be able to defeat anything in one punch. This might seem unrealistic or unquantifiable to some people, and I can understand why, but that is his ability. He has a theoretically infinite amount of strength, speed, endurance, and a the ridiculous ability to accurately control over these things. He has an supernatural senses and reflexes. He is invulnerable, and is immune to psychic abilities, immune to heat (and lack of), electricity, and even vacuums.
Just to quantify his abilities and his range: He is able to hold back enough to be able to chop someone like Speed o’ Sound Sonic into the ground without permanent injury, as well as being able to grip Tank Top Black Hole’s hand and not break it, while still severely hurting him. But he is also able to defeat a city-sized meteor without effort (about 3 quintillion newtons of force needed to accomplish), and destroy part of the moon, putting trillions of G’s of force onto it, leaving a massive crater while jumping back to Earth (which makes him able to go as fast as 43,000 km/s). This is still technically nowhere near his full capabilities, however. Theoretically, if his power is truly limitless, he can punch so hard that it collapses the universe, reversing the cosmic inflation.
And throughout every single fight he has ever been through, he has never once been damaged, hurt, or injured in any way, no matter what opponent he faces.
The reason it is shown throughout the series that he does not defeat some of his opponents with one punch is due to his lack of estimation of power of his opponent, not because he cannot defeat them in one punch. He constantly shows that he overestimates opponents after hitting them too hard, defeating them in a single punch. But he also underestimates some of his opponents, as shown with the mosquito he tries to kill, or with the Boros fight.
Not only all of this, but Saitama still has one ability that I have left out. This may be the strongest power that Saitama has against Urza.
Saitama is, his personality at least, a common man, despite him having a monstrous amount of power and defeating monsters that are “powerful” who have become arrogant. He is, as he states, “just an average guy serving as an average hero.” He is modest, and does what he believes is right, not abusing his powers. But he is also blunt, and very persuasive in his “common man” attitude. He speaks to the “humanity” in people. He has since convinced many of his foes and allies that their ways were wrong, or taught them about the philosophies of good, including Genos, Dr. Genus, Hammerhead, Fubuki, and King.
The one reason I particularly wanted to highlight his ability to persuade is because of a specific example that I would like to shed light on. Saitama was able to dissuade Dr. Genus, who is essentially immortal with the ability to reverse aging and clone himself, from his life-long thought process that humanity is basically worthless and should approach a better evolution.
Unless I’m mistaken (and please feel free to correct, debunk, or clarify anything I’m saying if you feel the need to do so), Urza was also like this later in his life, when he fought the Phyrexians for years. He grew cold and his mind was distraught. He began to respect the Phyrexians, and even see them as higher, almost “perfect”, beings. He was then persuaded by the Phyrexians to even betray his ally, Taysir (who should be noted as a Planeswalker, as well), killing him. So he can be swayed in his thinking, even if his Will Power is so strong that he can’t be killed physically or whatever.
The problem with this matchup, as I’m realizing, is that no information is given about how Urza’s magic works. I understand that it is pulled from all over the Multiverse, but that means it must take at least some time to gather and disperse/use, which is the usual for fantasy worlds containing magic. This brings up questions like how long it can take to cast, how fast his reactions are, etc. There are tons of specifics that are variable with Urza. At least Saitama’s feats can be quantifiable, but no scientific information to base logical dispute can be shown with Urza.
Another big problem is if my opponent will accept the idea of the hyperbole of Saitama’s power, which borders close to no-limit fallacy. It’s kind of frustrating. But let me try to set this up:
Saitama would, if he did not underestimate Urza and saw him as a “bad guy” (which he would due to his betrayal of the Planeswalkers), be able to destroy Urza’s physical body in one punch before he has a chance to retaliate. Saitama’s physical reflexes are simply faster.
Saitama also is shown to be immune to psychic abilities by his fight with Fubuki. So if magic works like psychic abilities, Saitama can’t be hurt by them. Saitama has also been shown to be “too heavy” to pick up with psychic abilities, so Urza can’t just pick him up and throw him into space.
Anyway, back to my main point about the destruction of Urza’s body. I want to talk about his “regeneration” ability. I would like to state that it is shown that Taysir, who is a Pre-Mending Planeswalker, can die. He, in fact, dies from an artifact that was given to him by Urza. I must admit, I don’t exactly understand how this artifact works. Assuming that it uses magic, it brings it back to magic variables. What type of magic killed him? How did it kill him?
Digressing from that again, however, I want to talk about the quote you used:
“their physical forms were matters of will as they were energy projections of a center of consciousness"
This states that Planeswalkers are “a center of consciousness” while their bodies, correct me if I’m wrong, are “energy projections”.
I’ve researched something like this, and it reminds me of energy-based beings. Beings that are made of energy, and not matter. Now a lot of this is from memory, so please feel free to correct me on this. This can be attributed to photons, things that have no mass, which can create intangible objects (like light) by constantly staying in motion. Imagine them like waves more than atoms. But even photons can be dispersed or bent/altered by force. This can be shown by black holes. Black holes create warps in space, and create gravity pulls that even bend light itself. If Saitama could, theoretically, replicate the singularity of a black hole, then the photons would be pulled inside by the sheer force of gravity. Saitama could create this by colliding two objects or particles at a ridiculous speed (which he is capable of achieving), condensing them into a close-to-zero volume with enough force. This could, essentially, pull in Urza’s photon-like state.
If you, however, want to state that he is just “Will Power”, and is in no way like photons or an energy-based being, then I will have to state that I believe that Saitama would be able to win, still, simply because his will is stronger. He was created as a character to have an impenetrable will. That is what broke his physical limiter in the first place. So if will power can bring Urza back, I believe a stronger will power can separate him.
Another way I believe Saitama could win is by purely convincing Urza that he should change, much like he did with Dr. Genus. If he was not able to kill his body, and he keeps regenerating, it would be a battle of attrition. Although Saitama does have unlimited stamina, Saitama also can get bored easily. I believe that Saitama would just defeat his body at least once, and when Urza regenerates, Saitama would convince him that his actions against the Planeswalkers and siding with the Phyrexians was wrong, and Urza, probably coming back to his old self of wanting to be good, would concede.
All of the rest of my information of Saitama is from the anime and manga. If you would like specifics for information, I can provide you with the volume, chapter, and page number of the origin of the claims.
I thank Con for his argument and I enjoyed reading it. I will now attempt to counter-argue my opponent and make some things clear.
A Quick Apology To My Opponent
I adore Magic The Gathering although I don't play the game as much as I used to and I recommend reading the lore and getting the books/comics if you can however I would like to apologise for the lack of proper sources I can link as one huge issue with Magic The Gathering characters is that almost all their info atleast for Pre-Mending Era Planeswalkers and Stories are only found in the books unlike today were Wizards upload articles to their site with the story of what's happening in the Multiverse. So I would like to apoligse for my lack of evidence and I do swear by no means am I making Urza more powerful than he is. If you google "Urza MTG vs" you'll see alot of websites that people have posted this sort of stuff on will say what I'm saying when it comes to Urza and the power he has.
To Clear Things Up
In regards to how fast Urza can cast spells I would like to point out the current Neo-Walkers (Post-Mending Walkers) like Jace and Chandra. In recent lore articles realeased by Wizards (The company that makes MTG) During the events of Shadows Over Innistrad Jace was under attack by three Werewolves and was able to summon a Phantasmal Bear that was not able to do anything phsyical within seconds. However the Werewolves could not smell a scent and coninuted to chase Jace at this point Jace once again within a few seconds summoned another Phantasmal Bear to attack the Werewolves the reason for summoning a Phantasmal Bear that could attack this time was a result of the werewolving simply ignoring it due to lack of scent. In this instance the Werewolves just tried to run through the bear before it crushed one of the wolves under it's might.
The reason I bring this up is because Jace is regarded as one of the best Neo-Walkers and as we can see he was able to cast spells like this within seconds which I then point towards the Pre-Mending Planeswalkers (OldWalkers). As I stated OldWalkers were godlike and were pretty much conductors/Super Batteries of Mana giving them intense power on a whole new level. If a Neo-Walker like Jace can cast these spells within seconds imagine what sort of spells a OldWalker like Urza could cast. A good example of OldWalker power and (Correct me if I am wrong) is Lord Windgrace who was casually destroying armies with the swift movement of his hand (He was casting some serious board wipes!) in other words powerful spells that could wipe armies within seconds.
Urza's ability to regenerate his body.
I really wish photons were involved as Urza's story line was often mixing Sci-fi with Fantasy but sadly it is not and it can be done by sheer willpower which is evident by Nicol Bolas during one of his fights with another Elder Dragon as I stated earlier. He was killed and in the book if I remember correctly by sheer willpower Bolas returned back to reality stunning the Elder Dragon before quickly destroying the Elder Dragon infront of him.
Pre-Mending Planeswalkers and Dying.
I believe the whole regernation ability that Urza has I believe depends on the power of the Planeswalker hence why Nicol and Urza seem to be able to do it super easily while others like Taysir or the 3 titans that died due to a cloud of poisonious smoke died. It was noted by one of the Titans that you can mess up if your not paying attention when your regenrating your body. The titan talks about how she observed Urza's legs after he regnerated and how his legs were well to sum it up in a joke.
"That's not how legs bend, move, work and exsist" - Knaveslayer99 2016.
After bringing it up Urza quickly fixed his legs because (once again why the hell not?) this is obviously one huge issue with Pre-Mending Planeswalkers as Wizards as since now abandoned them we don't exactly know how they work anymore or what they are capable off.
Urza was also never killed Urza sacrificed his life to defeat Yawagmoth by combining his Spark with the Legacy Weapon and putting both of them inside of his Golem "Karn" in which Karn fired the Legacy Weapon and defeated Yawagmoth which sadly resulted in the ending of Urza's Life.
I have nothing to really Counter-Argue so um battle?
Now that I have hopefully cleared some things up I believe Urza would have no difficulty with killing Saitama but would be interested in how a normal man is able to pull off some serious abilities. Which I do believe would result in either of them talking to each other and either coming out the fight unharmed and with no desire to kill each other. However I believe if Saitama attempts to pull something against Urza during their peaceful talk I can imagine Urza would not hestitate to throw every single spell he has at him.
Another Thing to Clear Up
Urza is although my favourite Fantasy character peroid. Is really confusing as a result of how he is written as a character and by this I mean in terms of combat as in some books/chapters he can fight like a Pro and in others he gets his butt kicked almost instantly by the most simple thing. Hence why I can see the fight almost being a tie as Saitama could overwelm Urza but Urza just wouldn't be killed by Saitama due to his will.
Sorry if this was a very short argument I am currently as school while typing it as I just couldn't wait to get back to this debate and sorry I probably should have picked a character that we can get more knowledge off the best I can do is post a list of the MTG Novels and hopefully if you can find them online you can read them and learn some stuff about Urza and MTG. So I do really apoligise for choosing a difficult character in terms of evidence.
You stated that Urza would be able to have "powerful spells that could wipe armies withing seconds". Thank you for the information, but now that I know spellcasting is not instantaneous, I still stand by my claim that Saitama would be able to be fast enough and strong enough to destroy Urza's body before Urza could react.
Not only this, but because you stated that willpower was the only thing that brings Urza back with regeneration, my claim about a will that is stronger than Urza's could separate his body for good still stands. If willpower brings the physical form together, willpower, logically, can tear it apart, or at least, keep it from coming together again.
In this case, Urza's willpower is bending the realistic laws of the world, making his body regenerate from obliteration. But with Saitama's willpower, which also breaks the realistic laws of the world (gained from breaking his limiter in training), but so much so that he breaks realism every single time he punches, I argue, would be stronger. This will would shatter Urza's will.
You also gave me information that supports my side further with this "regeneration". You stated that he must concentrate to be able to bring his entire body back fully, even going so far as to give an example of when Urza had regenerated himself incorrectly.
If it becomes a battle of attrition, in which Saitama must destroy Urza's body a countless number of times, while Urza has to spend all of his time and energy regenerating, Urza would never be able to have the time to react, or do anything but regenerate. After a while, because Saitama's stamina is limitless, Urza would lose the power and endurance to bring himself back correctly. His mind would be strained after a long period of time, just like it was during the 3,000 years fighting the Phyrexians.
You also, again, didn't even comment on my connection between magic and psychic powers, and if they are or aren't alike. Not stating that they are different entirely, you opened yourself up for the claim that any of Urza's magic attacks would be nullified.
Honestly, I found that last argument sort of lack-luster compared to what I expected. You didn't seem to go through and counter-argue almost any of my claims. The only one you did happen to argue against was the theory that Urza could be an energy-based being, which I also created an argument after that paragraph stating that even if he was brought back by sheer "will", Saitama's will is just stronger. If one will is stronger than the other, I see Saitama running him down, making him out of dexterity, or just ending the battle in an easy win.
It makes me sad, as well, because no specific magic(k)s were shown as evidence against Saitama. I was hoping that you would state Urza could use lightning magic or fire magic or freeze Saitama or something, so I can at least use the points I made about Saitama being immune to electricity and heat. There was no actual prediction you made of how Urza would beat Saitama. No attacks, no measures, no explanations.
Urza is very powerful, and if Saitama wasn't literally limitless in his dexterity, speed and power, I could see Urza being a very difficult opponent. But how I see this battle going is like this:
Saitama destroys Urza's body before he has a chance to retaliate, and (if Saitama's will doesn't destroy him permanently) while Urza regenerates and spends his energy focusing on that, Saitama continues to destroy his body over and over and over. This continues, and leaves the two in a battle of who can hold out the longest, in which case, Saitama would win with his limitless stamina.
I will now post my Final Statements and Conclusions.
Urza is considered to be one of the most powerful Planeswalkers of all time spending his entire life which was 3000 Years which is actually a very short lifespan for a Planeswalker never the less he spent these years clashing with the Phyrexians determined to prevent a grim and dark future and even though time and time he was defeated and his body was shattered he was able to pull himself back together. Urza was determined and certain he could defeat the Phyrexians no matter the cost and eventually he did sadly ending his own life for the greater good.
Urza's power and spells are strong enough to send entire worlds into Ice Ages and his time travel later led to one of the most important and devasting events in the Multiverse (The Mending). Urza when given enough time could defeat anything no matter what (Which is void in this battle as Prep-Time is not allowed) That said however does not mean Urza once his body was destroyed (If) his body was destroyed could reform it away from Saitama to quickly come up with a stratergy.
Although I have taken away things like Urza's Power Stones and his Time Bubble (His Time Travel abilities) he still stands as a formidable opponent who will never back down and will continue to fight until his very last dying breath. After all it wasn't even the Phyrexian Overlord Yawgmoth who killed him it was Urza himself who sacrificed his life to save the multiverse for thousands possibly millions of years to come.
Thus I conclude my final Statement and end will a quote from Urza himself.
"You can build a perfect machine out of imperfect parts." —Urza.
Restating: Although he started out strong with a very detailed backstory, my opponent never gave any evidence against any of my claims, and never counter-argued, meaning that the arguments I stated still stand, and Saitama would be able to win by pure strength, speed, and willpower.
Conclusion: I believe my opponent wasn't prepared for this debate, and in fact, almost just seemed like he wanted to showcase his "favourite Fantasy character period", and wanted to show off how cool he was, rather than make him fight in a death battle. If he had been serious about a battle, he would have given specifics about how his character would win, as well as counter-argue claims against his character.
I would like to thank my opponent for giving a debate that was entertaining, for the short time that it lasted. If you believe I did a better job arguing for my character, vote Con.
Thank you for reading.