The Instigator
baggins
Pro (for)
Losing
8 Points
The Contender
mongeese
Con (against)
Winning
23 Points

Debate is a useless medium to resolve disputes

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
mongeese
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/2/2009 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,224 times Debate No: 8071
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (6)

 

baggins

Pro

I will argue that debate is a useless medium for resolving disputes. Here are my arguments.

1. In a debate there are winners and losers. This means the ego of people is involved - leading to a resolution unlikely - if not impossible.

2. Solution to most disputes usually lie between extremes.

3. In a debate - apart from the issue involved, lots of other factors play a role. The biggest one is the skill of debater. Another factor is the opinion of the majority - specially where the results are decided by voting. Most people are already highly opiniated, even before they look at the arguments.

4. If a person loses a debate - he rarely changes his mind. Most of the time he just leaves with a resolve to argue harder next time.

I admit that a debate on this topic is oxymoronic. But so what? Interestingly - an inability to resolve this issue will prove my contention.
mongeese

Con

To defeat your contentions, all that I have to do is show any debate in which a dispute was resolved.

http://www.debate.org...
In this debate, the dispute was resolved, because it became quite obvious that poison was not always bad.
http://www.debate.org...
In this debate, the dispute was resolved, even if the loser didn't think it was.
http://www.debate.org...
In this debate, all of the instigator's claims were proved to be inefficient.
http://www.debate.org...
In this debate, the instigator WAS convinced that he lost, and even voted against himself.

To counter your individual points:
"1. In a debate there are winners and losers. This means the ego of people is involved - leading to a resolution unlikely - if not impossible."
Just because a resolution is unlikely doesn't mean that it is never reached. To be "useless", every debate must have utterly failed to resolve disputes.

"2. Solution to most disputes usually lie between extremes."
This may be true in some cases, but other cases are a simple Yes/No, such as whether something is possible or not, or whether the world is flat or not.

"3. In a debate - apart from the issue involved, lots of other factors play a role. The biggest one is the skill of debater. Another factor is the opinion of the majority - specially where the results are decided by voting. Most people are already highly opiniated, even before they look at the arguments."
This doesn't make the debate overall useless.

"4. If a person loses a debate - he rarely changes his mind. Most of the time he just leaves with a resolve to argue harder next time."
Sometimes they do. I did in http://www.debate.org...

Now, I have another way to counter your resolution: is a debate even a medium to resolve disputes?
debate - a regulated discussion of a proposition between two matched sides (http://www.merriam-webster.com...)
It is not so much a medium to resolve disputes as a way to voice one's opinions in conflict with each other, to practice debating skills and compare contradictory views, possibly changing an observer's mind on the issue, or even the debater.

Again, only one "non-useless" debate is needed to prove your resolution wrong, and I have that debate in http://www.debate.org...

Thank you for starting this debate.
Debate Round No. 1
baggins

Pro

Thanks a lot for accepting to debate.

Let us have a closer looks at the some of the debates you have posted. Some of the conclusions reached were 'poison is not always bad', 'money is having some worth', 'money is good' and 'mongeese is a n00b'. I doubt whether debates like this can be even classified as disputes. All that I can see is that in these cases, the topics itself are useless. What I am talking about are real world disputes and conflicts. Do show me an example from real life where an issue has been resolved using debate.

Even in these toy disputes which were 'resolved', the loser has not accepted the decision in many cases! Notice your own post, how you talk about 'loser' and 'instigator'. This is not what is what is meant by resolving a dispute. All that has happened is that one of the debater is too good (or other too bad).

You have also countered - "is debate even a medium to resolve disputes?". Do you want to say that debate is useless in resolving disputes - because it is not meant to resolve disputes in first place? But that means you concede that debate is useless for resolving disputes! However I admit that debates have some other benefits - like improvement in language skills. (One of my primary motivation!)

Now let us look at some of the counters to my arguments you have presented:
1. I said that egos involved in the debate make conclusion unlikely. You said that, just because it is unlikely does not make it impossible.

Actually the charge of uselessness is a mild one. In many cases it is harmful. I am sure you are yourself aware of many cases of debates which have degenerated into abuses. A medium which is often harmful and maybe - maybe useful once in a blue moon, can be considered as useless at best.

2. I argued that solutions usually lie between extremes. You said that this is true in some cases only.

I will just reiterate my statement. Solutions mostly lie between extremes. Disputes are rarely 'flat earth' type questions.

3. I talked about other factors which contribute in making it useless. You said that - they do not make it 'overall useless'.

Correct. These are the major factors which contribute in making it useless for resolving disputes equitably. Debates may not be overall useless. Check what I said about language skills.

4. I said that losers rarely change their mind. You said that you did change your mind once. So you are a 'n00b' like me!

Again I am not talking about toy disputes.

I hope I have answered all your objections. I shall be waiting eagerly for your response.
mongeese

Con

"Do show me an example from real life where an issue has been resolved using debate."
The importance is not important for this debate. What is important that debate has solved disputes, no matter how stupid they may be.

"Again I am not talking about toy disputes."
Too late for that.

Anyways, the simple fact that debate was used, at one point, as a medium to resolve a dispute, and was not useless, that means that debate is not a useless medium to resolve disputes. It has its use, no matter how small. In this case, the dispute was whether I was a n00b or not, and the dispute was resolved. To be called useless, debate must have never ever succeeded as a medium to resolve a dispute, and it has. Thus, the resolution is negated.

"So you are a 'n00b' like me!"
No, I was a 'n00b' like you. Not anymore.

Thank you for your quick response.
Debate Round No. 2
baggins

Pro

Thanks for your response.

My assertion is "Debate is a useless medium to resolve disputes". Your assertion is "Debate can sometimes resolve useless disputes". It is just playing with words. In either case - debates are useless (as far as dispute resolution is concerned).

In any case, I doubt whether your 'n00b' debate can be considered as a dispute (I stand corrected, you are no longer a n00b). You knew very well at the time of posting it that you were new to the community. So a real dispute never existed.

You still have a way to prove me wrong. You can concede and this dispute would be resolved! Unfortunately for you - you have already conceded in your first post that debates are not meant to resolve disputes at all. So no dispute existed in this case either.

I think it is obvious that the vote should be PRO. Best of luck to both of us for the voting period.
mongeese

Con

Debate is only useless for dispute resolving if it has never resolved a dispute. It has resolved a dispute. And I don't think that it was a useless dispute, either.

"So a real dispute never existed."
Yes, it did. It didn't last long, but it existed for about an hour.

So, finally, I think that it is obvious that because debates are not ALL useless by the resolution, the resolution is negated, and the vote should be CON.

"Best of luck to both of us for the voting period."
The best luck to both sides means no luck to either side; may the best man win.
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by NItEMArE129 8 years ago
NItEMArE129
If he can prove that debates are sometimes useful, then that means that they are not never useful. Or in other words, if he can say that they are sometimes useless, they are not always useless. Which means he wins.
Posted by yeahyeah21 8 years ago
yeahyeah21
Unfortunately, nothing can be 100% right or wrong. There are always loopholes. This is what I hate about life. You can't be 100% against or for something, because there are good and bad sides to everything. GRRR, I just wish someone would give me a straight answer!!! lol
Posted by baggins 8 years ago
baggins
I am just a little hobbit :-)
Posted by baggins 8 years ago
baggins
Hey - but I don't think either of us is a dog. And I am sure that u don't either. What is the dispute?
Posted by mongeese 8 years ago
mongeese
Exactly.
Posted by wjmelements 8 years ago
wjmelements
"2. Solution to most disputes usually lie between extremes."
Are you kidding?

I am a dog.
No, you are not a dog.

The solution of this dispute is not something between. For most disputes, there is no "in-between"
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animea
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Diebold
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wjmelements
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