The Instigator
Metaright
Con (against)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
BangBang-Coconut
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points

Debate.org should not demand your cell phone number to access certain features.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+3
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Con Tied Pro
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision - Required
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/28/2011 Category: Technology
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,296 times Debate No: 14993
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (3)

 

Metaright

Con

In this debate, I will argue that needing to provide your cell phone number to access certain features is inappropriate for a website such as Debate.org.

1. Some people may not have a cell phone

Not everyone has a cell phone, contrary to what most Americans (who are all close-minded in this respect) think. There is not a need for some people to have one.

2. Having to borrow the cell phone of a friend/family member is an outrageous solution

This is just an unnecessary and outrageous solution to a superfluous problem. Why burden someone I know just so I can access features on a website?

3. What will they do with my number?

Send me messages? Why? Call me? I doubt it, but why give them the chance? I have no idea who anybody here is; for all I know, I could be given a paid subscription or some such thing.

It says the won't send me unrequested messages. How do I know they're not lying? It's been done, and is just an unnecessary risk.
BangBang-Coconut

Pro

First of all, I want to thank Metaright for this clever and their relevant debate.
(Although I do think it necessary to point that it would appear that I am actually Con to this resolution, and my opponent is Pro.)

I will however stand in favor of the stance, that Debate.org Should demand your cell phone number to access certain features.

so for a bit of clarity, I will offer the reasons behind the Pro stance, and then refute my opponent's statements.

1. Security-

As with many websites, Debate.org is going to have problems with people starting accounts, which they never use. This is without question, extremely frustrating. but not only that, it greatly slows the sites bandwidth to the members who would actually like to use the site. The simple solution of asking for a cell phone number is no great harm to this site's constituents, and should at the utmost be considered as a minor annoyance.

2. The number is not used for anything-

To all those who have actually sent in your Phone number to this site, I ask you; when even once have you received a message from this site?
the simple fact is, you have not. Once Debate.org has determined that you're not just some spam-happy individual they probably just forget your number altogether. In fact why should we believe that Debate.org ever even keeps your number?

3. Limited usage is not the end of the world-

I can attest to this, I have not registered my number on this site, and I seem to be able to do as I please just fine. The primary purpose of this site is to (wait for it... wait for it...) Debate! and even if you never send in your cell-phone number, you can still do just that! your primary purpose is satisfed.

so now if I may, I will move onto my opponent's points.

1.Some people may not have a cell phone-

While this is true, it would be a bold faced lie to say that a vast-majority of people did not have cell-phones. especially if they have access to the internet enough to need to exercise the functions that your cell-phone number is needed for. they will most likely have a cell phone. and if not, they may just need to determine what they want more, internet access, or a cell phone.

2. Having to borrow the cell phone of a friend/family member is an outrageous solution

My opponent gives you no reason to believe this, or even warrant it as a legitimate problem, I simply ask you to disregard it. Borrowing another's cell phone is a perfectly acceptable solution.

3. What will they do with my number?

As I said before, they really do nothing with it. And if you're really so suspicious of this site, then leave. there is nothing keeping you on this site, and there in no reason to believe that the admins have ulterior motives.

an so in conclusion, it is not only fine to give your cell-phone number to this website, but it's even beneficial to the website's bandwidth, and ultimately you.
Debate Round No. 1
Metaright

Con

Thanks for accepting the debate, Hello-Orange.

"(Although I do think it necessary to point that it would appear that I am actually Con to this resolution, and my opponent is Pro.)"

Yeah, sorry about that. With some topics, it's not entirely clear.

"As with many websites, Debate.org is going to have problems with people starting accounts, which they never use. This is without question, extremely frustrating. but not only that, it greatly slows the sites bandwidth to the members who would actually like to use the site. The simple solution of asking for a cell phone number is no great harm to this site's constituents, and should at the utmost be considered as a minor annoyance."

As for this issue, I think it would be much easier for the users (the ones who essentially drive the site,) to just impose a cap on how long you can go inactive. Something like a few days would be too short,yet something like a year would be too long. I think the best choice would be a three-month inactivity cap. After that, it would delete the account. Debate.org could use the users' e-mail to send a notice beforehand, and the bandwidth problem is solved.

Well, not really; won't the needless users still be here even if they don't provide their cell phone number?

"To all those who have actually sent in your Phone number to this site, I ask you; when even once have you received a message from this site?
the simple fact is, you have not. Once Debate.org has determined that you're not just some spam-happy individual they probably just forget your number altogether. In fact why should we believe that Debate.org ever even keeps your number?"

As far as I know, this site is like a second 4chan. The owners could be liars, the users could all be liars. I simply don't know and would rather be cautious then give my number to people I don't know.

"While this is true, it would be a bold faced lie to say that a vast-majority of people did not have cell-phones. especially if they have access to the internet enough to need to exercise the functions that your cell-phone number is needed for. they will most likely have a cell phone. and if not, they may just need to determine what they want more, internet access, or a cell phone."

I don't know if you're saying this, but I never said most people don't have one; I said most people believe EVERYONE has own.

And even so, you can have internet access without a cell phone, vice versa, or neither at all. They are in no way connected.

"My opponent gives you no reason to believe this, or even warrant it as a legitimate problem, I simply ask you to disregard it. Borrowing another's cell phone is a perfectly acceptable solution."

I believe I did; as stated before, for all I know, these people will do malicious things with my cell phone number. If I am unsure, why would I burden my friend/family member with it? What if I don't know anybody with a cell phone?

And don't say "of course you do", because having a cell phone is not a given; it's not a necessity, and should not be treated as one. And chances are, your refute would be "of course you do; everyone has a cell phone". If so, that's my point; not everybody does.

"As I said before, they really do nothing with it. And if you're really so suspicious of this site, then leave. there is nothing keeping you on this site, and there in no reason to believe that the admins have ulterior motives."

If they really wanted users very badly, they would not ask for suspicious information. I can guarantee that I'm not the only person suspicious of this.

"an so in conclusion, it is not only fine to give your cell-phone number to this website, but it's even beneficial to the website's bandwidth, and ultimately you."

This seems to be like government gun control; "We place an unnecessary burden on you, and indirectly, you benefit. I mean, what other solution is there? NOT asking for your cell phone number? Then what could we use? E-mail? Who has e-mail?"
BangBang-Coconut

Pro

Ha ha XD I think it's fine, as long as others understand who's whom. So thanks for a clear and concise rebuttal

So now for maximum clarity, I will simply review the debate thus far, defend the attacks made on my stance, and proceed to extend the attacks my opponent covered

Me-
1. Security-
For this point, My opponent doesn't actually attack the point I've made, he simply suggests an alternate system. while it would seem that this attack would be a perfectly acceptable counter to the point that the usage of Cell-Phone numbers is simply for security, it is not. You see here mo opponent doesn't address the issue at hand. So I ask you all not to look to this attack as there is no clash with what I've actually said here.

2.The Number is not used-

Now going on to the refutation my opponent made here; he's comparing Debate.org to 4chan. Go ahead, reread what I just said because that's exactly what I just said. He is comparing Debate.org to 4chan. As ridiculous of an argument as this is, I will cover it. We have absolutely no reason to believe this absurd comparison. what my opponent has said is the same as comparing Encyclopedia Dramatica to Wikipedia. Point being it isn't accurate, and there's no warrant as to why you should believe this.

3. Limited usage is not the end of the world-

Now my opponent's attacks here are are not even applicable to the point I'm trying to make. in fact the sum quantity of what he has said, supports Me if anything! Not every-one even has access to the internet. so instead of debating something as mediocre and nit-picky about this website's otherwise wonderful an free service; we should instead be exercising this website's use to it's fullest potential by talking about Science, Philosophy, or Politics.

with all of this said, I will move onto my opponent's refutations of my own attacks

Opponent-
1. Some people may not have a cell phone-

Honestly, I don't think we can even count my opponent's statements here as a refutation. but instead I ask you to take these words and apply them directly to my own stance. First, most people do indeed have cell-phones, so this is not such a big deal. second, you can still use this site's primary function (to debate) without registering your cell-phone with them. So let's move on.

2. Having to borrow the cell phone of a friend/family member is an outrageous solution-

My opponent is still caught up on his suspicion that Debate.org is going to do something malicious with his number. even though my opponent actually makes the point to say in his own constructive speeches that when registering with site, they go out of their way to inform you that they WILL NOT be using you phone number for ANYTHING. Beyond that
my opponent's suspicions are completely and utterly unfounded. This is a logical debate, so unless he can at the very least provide any kind of reason other than ridiculous suspicion, we need no look to his stance. Also, I would like to point out that while having a cell phone is not a necessity (I never said it was, it's just an incredibly useful tool) being a member of Debate.org is even less of a necessity. A Cell can provide you with the ability to be contacted and contact others. this website is for Fun and academic stimulation

(Also, I might point out that my opponent's refutation had absolutely to do with borrowing a cell phone being absurd)

3. What will they do with my number-

My opponent doesn't cover this point, please count i as a drop

And so in closing, this website is pretty darn wonderful. It provides it users (Completely free of charge) the ability to debate, and network with others. and the (if anything) Minor inconvenience of having to register your number to be able to vote and such, is more than acceptable.

So I urge you, to vote for me in this debate.
Debate Round No. 2
Metaright

Con

"For this point, My opponent doesn't actually attack the point I've made, he simply suggests an alternate system. while it would seem that this attack would be a perfectly acceptable counter to the point that the usage of Cell-Phone numbers is simply for security, it is not. You see here mo opponent doesn't address the issue at hand. So I ask you all not to look to this attack as there is no clash with what I've actually said here."

Well played.

"Now going on to the refutation my opponent made here; he's comparing Debate.org to 4chan. Go ahead, reread what I just said because that's exactly what I just said. He is comparing Debate.org to 4chan. As ridiculous of an argument as this is, I will cover it. We have absolutely no reason to believe this absurd comparison. what my opponent has said is the same as comparing Encyclopedia Dramatica to Wikipedia. Point being it isn't accurate, and there's no warrant as to why you should believe this."

This isn't even a rebuttal; just stating how outrageous you view my comparison to be. My point was, ave NO IDEA what the people are like at all, I have reason to be cautious. You'll also notice I never compared Debate.org to 4chan*; I merely said that for all I know, they have similar users and traits. For this point you offer no rebuttal.

"Now my opponent's attacks here are are not even applicable to the point I'm trying to make. in fact the sum quantity of what he has said, supports Me if anything! Not every-one even has access to the internet. so instead of debating something as mediocre and nit-picky about this website's otherwise wonderful an free service; we should instead be exercising this website's use to it's fullest potential by talking about Science, Philosophy, or Politics."

This isn't a nit-pick. I AM taking advantage of the free service.

"Honestly, I don't think we can even count my opponent's statements here as a refutation. but instead I ask you to take these words and apply them directly to my own stance. First, most people do indeed have cell-phones, so this is not such a big deal. second, you can still use this site's primary function (to debate) without registering your cell-phone with them. So let's move on."

Why should those cell phone-less users have to settle for less, when an e-mail substitution would be free for everyone as well as stopping trolls to some extent (one account per e-mail)? Why should the users without cell phones be punished?

"My opponent is still caught up on his suspicion that Debate.org is going to do something malicious with his number. even though my opponent actually makes the point to say in his own constructive speeches that when registering with site, they go out of their way to inform you that they WILL NOT be using you phone number for ANYTHING. Beyond that
my opponent's suspicions are completely and utterly unfounded. This is a logical debate, so unless he can at the very least provide any kind of reason other than ridiculous suspicion, we need no look to his stance. Also, I would like to point out that while having a cell phone is not a necessity (I never said it was, it's just an incredibly useful tool) being a member of Debate.org is even less of a necessity. A Cell can provide you with the ability to be contacted and contact others. this website is for Fun and academic stimulation"

I point your attention to the infamous "prince of Nigeria" and similar e-mail scams; they come from a seemingly reliable source, but put your trust in it and you get stabbed royally in the back.

"Well, what about all these users you see on here?" you might say. Well, what about all those people who fell for the e-mail scams?

"My opponent doesn't cover this point, please count i as a drop"

That was the point of the whole "I don't know if I can trust them" argument.

So basically, your argument boils down to these points:

-I should not care about users without cell phones.
-That one argument means nothing because of one comparison you deem unreasonable.
-Debate.org is not a place for talking about Debate.org.
-I should trust Debate.org with a piece of my personal information without any knowledge of the site because...it's Debate.org?

"And so in closing, this website is pretty darn wonderful. It provides it users (Completely free of charge) the ability to debate, and network with others. and the (if anything) Minor inconvenience of having to register your number to be able to vote and such, is more than acceptable."

Unless you count having to buy an oftentimes expensive cell phone for extra features.
BangBang-Coconut

Pro

First of all, I thank my opponent for their rebuttal.

For maximum clarity, I will simply review the debate and show How I have won.

So first to my own case,
1. Security-
My opponent has conceded this point; vote for me.

2. The number is not used-
My opponent claims I make no actual rebuttal here, but I urge to please review my statements. what I said is indeed a rebuttal, it covers my opponent's argument's and clarifies my point. However along with my opponent's insidious attack, he goes on to claim that I don't understand human nature. I would like to point out, that I am twenty years old, my opponent is fourteen; logically I must understand human nature more than my opponent as I have had longer to see it in action, second- I work in retail; trust me when I say I've seen the good and bad in humanity.

Also my opponent's only real attack is still only an objection based on suspicion.

3. Limited usage is not the end of the world-
My opponent doesn't cover the arguments I made, vote for me.

Now I will proceed to my opponent's case

1. Some people may not have a cell phone-

Once again, my opponent is avoiding the topic, those who have more get to do more. as awful as this might sound it's an undeniable truth in the society we live in. so why then,should those who do have cell phones (Which we've already determined is the more enumerated portion of society) lose out? this would violate the utilitarian ideology we've founded our society upon!

2. Having to borrow the cell phone of a friend/family member is an outrageous solution-

I'm not going say anything here, instead I just ask you to review the debate and look at just what my opponent said in refutation towards my attack on him simply being suspicious. Vote for me here.

3. What will they do with my number-
My opponent drops this point, he instead opts to talk about his own suspicions again; do not look to these vote for me.

now that I've covered everything said thus far, I want to point out some things my opponent claims I've advocated in the course of this debate

==========
-I should not care about users without cell phones.
-That one argument means nothing because of one comparison you deem unreasonable.
-Debate.org is not a place for talking about Debate.org.
-I should trust Debate.org with a piece of my personal information without any knowledge of the site because...it's Debate.org?
==========
I'm neither going to waste your, nor insult your intelligence pointing out the obvious flaws here, instead I offer you this as fodder in the fire that is the reasons you need to vote for me.

and so in conclusion; my final words in this debate.

You cannot allow my opponent to win this debate, he provides no logical backing on why he ought to win, he provides no empirical evidence to advocate his point, and the sum total of his logic re simply his own unfounded suspicions, and general distrust towards society.

while on the flip side, I offer you logical, and sound reasoning; I've shown the usefulness of having members verify themselves with their phone.

And so for all of these reasons, we can see no other vote in this round than for myself.

(also, this system helps prevent vote-bombing since you need to verify by phone to vote. not a voting issue I know, as this is my last speech, but I thought I point that out.)
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Meyer 4 years ago
Meyer
I can't vote because I'm not going to give my number to some random site. It will cost me money if they misuse that information. I don't know what security precautions they take with that data. Thousands of successful sites handle user interaction just fine without requiring phone numbers. The two exceptions that come to mind are Google and Facebook, and they are canonical examples of why I DON'T want to give personal data to web sites.

I'm mostly echoing Con's arguments, and they weren't rebutted to my satisfaction. So, I would vote for Con if I were more flippant about my privacy - but then again I might have sided with Pro in that case. :)
Posted by thegodhand 6 years ago
thegodhand
I'd vote for CON if I had a cell phone :~
Posted by writinggirl123 6 years ago
writinggirl123
by "it" I mean my number.
Posted by writinggirl123 6 years ago
writinggirl123
Metaright, you are absolutely right. I have a cell phone and (to reply to reason 3) believe you me, I have enough text messages to read at the end of the day without having debate.org sending me useless ones that will probably only say something like, "tell your friends about debate.org!! a great website that allows you to express yourself anonymously!!". And also, not that I don't trust debate.org but, how do I know it will truly remain private?

I completely agree with Metaright.
Posted by larztheloser 6 years ago
larztheloser
Hey con, you do know that the majority of out-of-America networks are NOT covered by debate dot org, right?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Ore_Ele 6 years ago
Ore_Ele
MetarightBangBang-CoconutTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: I felt that both arguments weren't very good, but Pro did do better at it. An easy responce to the claim "I don't know what kind of people are here" is that you can always look around before signing up, and you can always choose not to supply your phone number and use other features of the site.
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 6 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
MetarightBangBang-CoconutTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: "I would like to point out, that I am twenty years old, my opponent is fourteen" - all kinds of fallacy
Vote Placed by TUF 6 years ago
TUF
MetarightBangBang-CoconutTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Multi-accounting almost mandates a cell phone number and plenty of restrictions. People without cell phones, can borrow someones easily.