The Instigator
WFTL
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Emmarie
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Define the only church in the New Testament.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/13/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 300 times Debate No: 95373
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (7)
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WFTL

Pro

Because the New Testament speaks of only one church that Christ built, Matthew 16:18, therefore the church in the New Testament, must be the churches of Christ, Romans 16:16.

Must use KJV bible only as sole source for proof that defines the only church in the New Testament, no outside sources can be used.
Emmarie

Con

I accept,and would like to thank WTFL for giving me the opportunity to debate this topic.

The resolution isn't clear as to what we are actually debating, so I will present scriptures from the Four Gospels of the KJV, to support what Christ intended for his "church" to consist of. According to the description that he gave, no organized body of believers is emulating his "church," but some individuals are following his will.
Debate Round No. 1
WFTL

Pro

Thank you Emmarie for accepting my friendship and your love for God, as I can see in your willingness to defend God's word. My contention is to show that only one church is recognized as the only church Christ built, and one must be added to that church in order to be saved, as no other church will do.

The true church is not a denomination, it's just the opposite. When I say one church I am saying one and only one "specific" church that the saved must be added to. The New Testament is clear on how God wants us to worship him, and this will show the pattern that only one specific church follows to this day, thus must be the " one " that Christ built, as he states he will build " my church' which is recorded in the Gospel .

" My church " is shown to be specific as one, singular in context, thus the Churches of Christ is representative of one church, that worships one specific way , which I intend prove beyond a doubt through scripture, that the church of Christ is the church spoken of in the New Testament that one must be in to be saved and to worship according to the New Testament.

The New Testament specifically states when to worship, how often to partake of the Lord's Supper, and shows no instruments to have ever been authorized or shown to be used in the worship practice of the Christians of the New Testament. The New Testament verifies one mode of how one must be saved. If my worthy opponent believes in the use of instruments she must prove it by using the New Testament only as stated above.

1. Romans 16:16King James Version (KJV)

16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

2. Matthew 16:18King James Version (KJV)

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

3.Acts 2:38-47King James Version (KJV)

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

4.Acts 20:7King James Version (KJV)

7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

5.1 Corinthians 16:1-2King James Version (KJV)

16 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

6.Acts 2:42King James Version (KJV)

42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

7.Ephesians 5:19King James Version (KJV)

19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

8.Colossians 3:16King James Version (KJV)

16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

9.1 Corinthians 11:1King James Version (KJV)

11 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

10.Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

John 3:5 - Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 22:16 - And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

1 Peter 3:21 - The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Romans 6:4 - Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Colossians 2:12-13 - Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. (Read More...)

Ephesians 4:5 - One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Acts 2:41 - Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.

Romans 6:3-4 - Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? (Read More...)

Galatians 3:27 - For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Matthew 3:16 - And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Matthew 3:11 - I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:

Acts 8:38 - And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Colossians 2:12 - Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Romans 6:3 - Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

11.Ephesians 4King James Version (KJV)

4 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

12.John 4:24King James Version (KJV)

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

My conclusion is because according to the scriptures in the New Testament, the churches of Christ is the only church that is spoken of according to the information I provided by scripture, therefore since it's the one and only church spoken of, and the only church one must be added to in order to be saved and to worship in spirit and in truth, thus the church of the New Testament is the Church [s]of Christ.
Emmarie

Con

Thanks again, WFTL, for instigating a debate that I hope we can both learn from. I really have no dispute with anything that you have posted, other than if what happened in Acts 2:38-47, is expected to be the grounds for partaking in the Church today. My intention in this debate is to show that while there was a body of believers who gathered in early Christian times, Christ never stated that only those who belong to a specific body of believers can be saved.


“44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.”


If this were a prerequisite for enjoining believers today, organizers could use this practice to guilt believers into departing with their possessions. The quoted event was a one time thing that happened shortly after Christ’s resurrection, after which the original church was intentionally disassembled in order for the Romans to continue to be credible within their boundaries. Believers may have had been baptized and continued to gather together in a like manner during early Christian times, but with everything that has happened since the founding of the Christian RELIGION, any element of original Christian gatherings has been polluted by the religious aspect of what it has become. The TRUE Church of Christ doesn’t exist in any building, or body of believers; it only exists in the Spirits and Souls of those who do his will. True worship isn’t about the adoration of Christ as the Son of God, True Worship is the repentance and remittance of sins and the renewal of the Spirit because of the conviction of the Holy Spirit and the promptings thereof, resulting in a change in the way we treat other humans no matter what their religion is. True Worship is the way we live our lives.

I noticed that you quoted about the eunuch who was baptized by Philip who was returning to his home in Ethiopia. There was no rift in the body of believers in this time. Not only that, but this Ethiopian, wasn’t given any instruction in how he ought worship, he was saved through humility (that he didn’t understand Esaias)


“27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.


What I gain from this scripture is that the Ethiopian continued on his way REJOICING, and no longer felt the need to have Phillip reveal to him the meaning of Esaisas, for he had been redeemed from WITHIN his being and understood.


Luke 17:21 “Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” The next few passages describe the conditions that will be present in this world before his return. It specifically says NOT to follow after anyone who claims to represent Christ.


Luke 17:20 - 25 “20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.”


This leads me to believe that unless we know Jesus Christ from within our own being, then we are in danger of being deceived by any religion.


It isn’t my intention during this debate, to disprove the intentions or motivations of the Church of Christ. It is my intention to show that Christ’s True Church is made up of a body of believers who are one in Spirit, and that they don’t necessarily gather together to partake in worship or fellowship or traditions. They could be enjoined to a body of believers, or they could be independent believers. What matters is that they have received Christ and his teaching through faith, and live according to his teachings about loving themselves and others.


You mentioned baptism often, but it wasn’t a prerequisite for many people whom Christ redeemed when he was walking this earth.


Luke 7:47-51

47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.


If her faith had saved her than was baptism necessary?


As I was reading Luke Chapter 17, I found a passage that relates to the saving of a Samaritan leper and his salvation.

Luke:12 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
13 And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.
14 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
16 And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.
17 And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?
18 There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.
19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.


If his faith is what made him whole, was baptism necessary?


Christ saved many during his ministry and never mentioned their need to be baptized. He sought out those who felt the need to be made whole, or those who were chastised as unholy by religious leaders to Bless with New Life. By faith we must come to the need for repentance, and understand Christ’s nature in order to receive his Spiritual Blessings of redemption.


Your quote, John 4:24, “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth,” beautifully sums up how we ought to worship.


Thank you for the opportunity to present some of the treasures that I have found in the Gospel. I hope we can learn from each other more about our purpose in Christ.
Debate Round No. 2
WFTL

Pro

To my new friend and opponent in this debate, I pray that what I say is never taken in a way other than how I'm presenting it, that being the love I have for your soul, as God has shown his love to me.

My opponent states many false interpretations in which I will list as what I will be proving them to be, such as,

1. Christ never stated that only those who belong to a specific body of believers can be saved.

2."44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need."

3.Believers may have had been baptized and continued to gather together in a like manner during early Christian times,

4.any element of original Christian gatherings has been polluted by the religious aspect of what it has become.

5.The Ethiopian wasn"t given any instruction in how he ought worship, he was saved through humility (that he didn"t understand Esaias).

6.Says NOT to follow after anyone who claims to represent Christ. LUKE17:21.

7.That they don"t necessarily gather together to partake in worship or fellowship or traditions.

8.They could be enjoined to a body of believers, or they could be independent believers.

My opponent argues that while Jesus was here on earth he forgave sins , and I agree with my opponent on this issue, as he also healed the sick and raised the dead, so we have no argument on this particular issues she presented, Luke 7:47-51, Luke Chapter 17, and Luke:12.

My argument in respect to my opponents belief "is not" what Jesus could do in person while he was here on earth, as I humbly agree with my opponent on this matter completely, but, what his instructions were when he was preaching and when just before he ascended up into heaven his instructions to his Apostles were for us now to follow.

I humbly ask my opponent to note the words I have put in parenthesis, which show that baptism was not an act to be delayed, it was an act that was to be done as quickly as possible. Also in parenthesis is the argument against my opponent that states, one "could be enjoined to a body of believers, or they could be independent believers", as I will prove that only one body, that being the body of Christ, is the " only "body, that one must be in, no exceptions.

1.Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 1a. I ask my opponent to consider why Jesus would spend his very last seconds before ascending up into the clouds to put such emphasis on teaching and baptizing, if it wasn't essential to one's salvation?

2.Mark 16:16 - He that [believable and is baptized shall be saved]; but he that believable not shall be damned.

3. Acts 22:16 - And now [why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized], and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

4.Acts 16:31-33King James Version (KJV),

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

33 And he took them the [same hour of the night], and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

5.Acts 2:41 - Then they that gladly [received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.]

6.Ephesians 4:5 - One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

7.Ephesians 4:16 - From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

8.1Corinthians 12:27 - Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

9. Colossians 1:18 - And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

Worshipping together every Lord's day is a command.

1. Hebrews 10:25 - Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

2. John 4:23 - But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

3. John 4:24 - God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

4.1 Peter 3:8 - Finally, [be ye] all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, [be] pitiful, [be] courteous:

5. John 17:21-23 - That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. (Read More...)

6. Acts 2:44-47 - And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

7. Acts Chapter 2 - 44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all [men], as every man had need.

46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

CONCLUSION

I firmly believe that my opponent must agree that I have left no room for doubt, that the church [s] of Christ is the one and only church defined in the New Testament.

.

In conclusion, I leave my opponent to ponder this verse which shows that one can only be in the saved, the church, which is the body of Christ, by adhering to this verse below, which I give as undeniable proof .

1.1 Corinthians 1:10 - Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Emmarie

Con

The commandment that Jesus left his disciples, was to TEACH and Baptize, not merely baptize without instruction of how Christ expects us to treat one another. One of the most troubling things to me about organized religion, is when those of their preferred denomination attempt to recruit new members by evaluating the eternal condition of their souls. Nothing could be less loving, than to imply or state that someone is going to hell, unless they accept verbatim what is being presented. Christ’s teaching was not to condemn any soul to hell before giving them chances of repentance, whether they were in accordance with his teachings or not. It is not for anyone other than God to determine who is worthy of eternal life. Christ gives specific criteria for how he will judge who is worthy, but it is up to each of us as individuals to follow in his ways or to perish.

Matthew 25:34-45
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Instructions on who we ought to love:
Matthew 6:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

These are only some of Christ’s teachings as recorded in the Gospels. Why is it that baptism is required by many Christian churches without requiring His actual teachings be known?

Matthew 7:7-12
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.


EVERYONE that asks, receives. One need not join a denomination to receive the Gift of Life!

When one cannot see beyond the denomination of another, in order to spread the EXAMPLE of Christ's teaching, one ends up arbitrarily, only extending the kind of Love that Christ taught, demonstrated, and expected his followers to portray, to those with whom they have "fellowship" with because of a verbatim belief system. This wasn't Christ's instruction while he walked on the earth to those who are to receive the Blessings of his Kingdom, whether in those days or the present time. His WORD is eternal, meaning applicable to everyone of all times, so I disagree that he intended for his disciples to be inclusive and form a "Church." He instructed them to spread the Gospel, and baptism was symbolic to those who had heard and accepted His Message and instructions thru the testimony of those disciples.

What instructions were so pertinent to the salvation of our souls, that Christ was willing to lay down his life in order to magnify? The story of a certain Samaritan sums up how we ought treat our neighbor.
https://www.biblegateway.com...
This quote sums up the teaching, Luke 10:36-37 “Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.”

He said, “Go and DO the likewise,” meaning to show mercy toward our fellow humans, no matter their religious ideology, which is a manifestation of the kind of love Christ wanted his disciples to practice and teach.
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
The mention “other sheep...not of this fold,” implies that it is possible to not be amongst a specific denomination, but yet be included of the one flock of the shepard. I’ve provided a link to the entire Chapter of John 10, to show that Christ instructs that HE is the door of ALL of the sheep. https://www.biblegateway.com...

I place Christ’s instructions above any of the disciples. It was Christ who laid down his life for the remission of our sins, and it was Christ who called to him disciples to spread and teach his Gospel.

“Before his conversion, Paul, then known as Saul, was a "zealous" Pharisee who "intensely persecuted" the followers of Jesus. Says Paul in his Epistle to the Galatians 1:13-14:

13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
https://en.wikipedia.org...

Paul's intention may have been to unite Christians into a verbatim account, to keep them from the persecution of the authorities, because he himself had been an adversary to Christians before his own conversion. I don’t believe that 21st century Christians should be placing as much weight on Paul's instructions to congregations in his day, as they do on Christ’s teachings which are eternal.

No church (as described by Paul) has continued from the time that Christianity was established, and many Christians have lived and gone to their rest before the Church of Christ existed, so are you implying that those who accepted Christ before its establishment are unsaved? I’ll close this round with that sentiment, in the hopes that my opponent can ponder the scriptures that I have included in this round, and that he can see that Christ’s purpose was for ALL to come to know his Love.

All of Christ's instructions to his disciples while he was with them in the flesh, was demonstrative of HOW to LOVE one another. We live in a world that is lacking in this demonstration. It was for the purpose of recording Christ’s teachings, that they were instructed to TEACH and baptize, so that future generations of believers would know what is meant by loving our neighbor as ourself.
Debate Round No. 3
WFTL

Pro

I wish to thank Emmarie for debating on this topic on, which I feel is an absolute need for all to understand that defining the only church is critical to worshipping God in spirit and in truth. The pattern left for us to go by is clear, as God is the author of peace, not confusion,1 Corinthians 14:33King James Version (KJV).

Throughout the New Testament we see commands that one must comply to in order to be pleasing to God, as God is love, and so in order to be able to have a Fatherly - son relationship with him, is why he has given a pattern for us to go by, just as our parents who love us, also teaches us patterns to go by, because we live in a world of moral and ethical patterns in our society here on earth.

I will conclude this debate with the pattern that all who wish to be in the church, and only church that Christ built, and it was one church, meaning "one body" in which all must be in, as my opponent states, "Christ never stated one specific body", to which I will prove, he did indeed state one specific body.

I will then show how one must get into that one specific body, the church, and how the New Testament pattern shows how we are to worship God by what he has commanded us to do in order to be pleasing and acceptable to him, Matthew 7:21,

King James Version

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

********************

Here is the complete pattern for one must go by according to the New Testament in order to be in the church defined in the New Testament which one must be in to be in the church of the saved by complying to the Father's will he has given us all to go by.

eternal difference? Truth For The World needs your help.

What does one have to do in order to be forgiven of his sins? He must
1.Hear the Gospel of Christ;
2.Believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God;
3.Repent of all his past sins;
4.Confess that Christ is God"s Son;
5.Be baptized for the remission of sins.

When he does this, he is added by the Lord to His church (Acts 2:41, 47). He is born again (John 3:3-5; 2 Corinthians 5:17). He is in Christ where all spiritual blessings are to be found. (Ephesians 1:3; Galatians 3:26-27). In short, he is a Christian (Acts 11:26; 26:28; 1 Peter 4:16).

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Christians must learn from the New Testament, the law of Christ for all people today, how God wants to be worshipped today. The acts of worship required by God are plainly set forth in the New Testament.

The Lord"s Supper

The Lord"s supper or communion (1 Corinthians 10:16) consists of two things: (1) unleavened bread (without yeast) and (2) the fruit of the vine (grape juice). The purpose of the Lord"s Supper is to bring to our remembrance the sacrifice of the body and blood of Jesus on the cross for our sins (Matthew 26:26-29). We must be very careful when we partake of the communion that we discern the blood and body of Jesus so that we partake in a worthy manner (1 Corinthians 11:23-30). Christians are to eat the the Lord"s Supper every first day of every week (Acts 20:7).

Prayer

Prayers offered to God are to be a part of our public worship as well as our private daily devotions. There are many examples and precepts concerning prayer in the New Testament (1 Timothy 2:1-2, 8; Philippians 4:6, etc.). In our prayers to God we give thanks and praise His name. In our prayers we can pray for our needs and for the needs of others. Jesus gave us a "model" prayer in Matthew 6:5-15. He did not intend for us simply to repeat this prayer by rote, but gave it as an example by which we could pattern our own prayers. Jesus Christ is our mediator and high priest. Therefore, our prayers must be addressed to God in the name of Jesus (John 16:23; 1 Timothy 2:5; Hebrews 4:14-16; 1 John 2:1-2).

Preaching and Teaching God"s Word

God has commanded us to teach His Word (Matthew 28:19-20). Both saved and sinners need to be taught. Therefore, a lesson from the Bible is one of the acts of worship in which Christians are to engage (Acts 2:42). We must learn God"s Word so that we can grow stronger in Christ, teach others, and overcome false teachings (1 Peter 2:1-2; 2 Timothy 2:2; 4:1-5). This is a very important part of our worship and must never be overlooked.

Giving

of our means is a part of our worship to God. This is the way Christ"s church gets the necessary funds to do its work. God has given us the perfect plan for giving ""(1 Corinthians 16:2). We are told who is to give, "Let each one of you." We are told when we are to give, "On the first day of the week." We are also told how much to give, "As He may prosper." We show our love for God when we give cheerfully and willingly to Him (2 Corinthians 9:7).

Singing

Christians are commanded to praise God in song (Colossians 3:16). The kind of music God commanded for His church is vocal music only, that is, singing. There is no command or example anywhere in the New Testament for the use of mechanical instrumental music in Christian worship. To add instruments of music to our singing is a sin for it is adding to what God has told us that He wants. No man has the right to do this (Revelation 22:18-19; 2 John 9-11). We are to make "melody in our hearts" (Ephesians 5:19), the instruments made by God, not instruments made by man! what pleases God!

True Christians want to worship God. In fact, it is impossible for a true Christian not to worship God. When we understand God"s greatness, His glory, majesty, wisdom, and strength, and reflect upon His infinite mercy in giving His only begotten Son to save us from our sins, our hearts will overflow. We will want to "offer up a sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of lips which make confession to his name" (Hebrews 13:15).

Hebrews 10:25King James Version (KJV)

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

1 Timothy Chapter 3

1 This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

8 Likewise [must] the deacons [be] grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being [found] blameless.

11 Even so [must their] wives [be] grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

CONCLUSION

The bible is clear on what one must do to be added to the church defined in the bible, that being the churches of Christ, Romans 16:16, thus I have without a doubt, that the church of the New Testament, which is, the churches of Christ.

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org...

http://truthfortheworld.org...
Emmarie

Con

Conclusion
WFTL shows his Christian attitude by his kindness and consideration. He is an individual that belongs to the Church of Christ and genuinely believes that his "church" is the only true Christian Church as demonstrated in the New Testament. Maybe it is because the members of his particular church are kind and considerate to one another, and genuinely study the New Testament to practice what is pleasing to God. I appreciate him sharing the reasons why his church, the Church of Christ, follows the traditions concerning worship services given by Paul in the NT. It wouldn't be fair of me to offer a rebuttal of specific arguments he made during round 4 because he doesn't have an opportunity to counterbalance any rebuttals.

I will close with describing what I would consider to be Christ's true church. What exists in lieu of an official true church are true believers that are individuals from many Christian denominations. John 3:16 lets us know who can be saved. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." This passage is intended for anyone of any denomination, or even for those who believe and yet don't officially belong to any church, or body of believers. The body of believers who are members of Christ's Church are those who believe in him, repent of their sins and do the will of the Father after receiving New Life.

The formalities that Paul laid the foundation for, were at a time when Romans were persecuting Christians, as well as Jewish zealots were also, as Paul had also done before his conversion. Certain structures were needed to remain "unspotted from the world," during these crucial times, so it is fitting that early Christian gatherings were organized to remain undetected. James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."

I will now list and quote all the scriptures I cited to support my claim that Christ's Church isn't a formal body of believers that gather in a specific location. I have already provided evidence for how God wishes to be worshipped, and to worship him truly, we must love our neighbor as we love ourselves.

Luke 17:21 "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

Luke 7:47-51
47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

John 4:24, "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth,"

Matthew 25:34-45
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Matthew 6:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Matthew 7:7-12
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

John 10:7-11 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

I enjoyed this debate, and would like to thank WFTL for the opportunity to define my beliefs about Christ's church. Please understand that it is not my intention to discredit WFTL's faith as an individual. From his kind persona, I know he is a true follower of Jesus Christ and hope he can come to see that there are individuals outside of his particular denomination, who serve Christ and are also saved by his grace..
Debate Round No. 4
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Emmarie 2 months ago
Emmarie
@WTFL - Thanks, hope all is well with you too, and wouldn't mind another debate with you in the future, in Christian Love.
Posted by WFTL 2 months ago
WFTL
Hey Emmarie, hope all is well. I want to thank you my dear precious friend for your time to participate in this debate. I enjoyed it immensely, and hope you and I can continue in the future on debating, In Christian love.
Posted by WFTL 2 months ago
WFTL
To my dear precious friend Emmarie, I pray all is well with you and your family. I just wished to let you know that I was thinking of you and thought I would let you know how grateful for you I am of you in desiring to debate me, as we all can learn from each other, so thank you, and I pray you have a great day, In Christian love.
Posted by KNOWLEDGEizPOWER 2 months ago
KNOWLEDGEizPOWER
Today, everyone thinks that the church is a building. But what does scripture say the church actually is?

Acts 7:38

This is he that was in "e Church in the wildernesse with the Angel, which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who receiued the liuely oracles, to giue vnto vs.

There was no actual building in the wilderness during the Old Testament times. However, there were people in the wilderness, specifically, the Israelites. Thus, the "church" is the nation of Israel, it is not a building.
Posted by TheBenC 2 months ago
TheBenC
Wish we could have private convos, Emmarie!
Posted by TheBenC 2 months ago
TheBenC
I actually follow only what Jesus said in the Bible. I ignore everything before his birth and after his death. I stick with his philosophies and that is good enough for me.

For you other Christians, of whatever denomination, what can be better than just following Jesus himself?
No votes have been placed for this debate.