The Instigator
RonPaulConservative
Pro (for)
The Contender
Rjupudi18
Con (against)

Deism (Pro) vs Christianity (Con)

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/12/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 635 times Debate No: 98840
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (19)
Votes (0)

 

RonPaulConservative

Pro

Google docs are not a violation of conduct, character limit is 15,000.
Rjupudi18

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
RonPaulConservative

Pro

DEFINITIONS
Deism- the belief that the universe and/or life was created by intelligent design, with no specific belief as to what did the intelligent designing.

Christianity- the belief that a God (like Zeus or Thor), exists. Christians believe that this God is the same God of the Old Testament, and that he is divided into three parts, yet is one. That one of these parts, called the father, impregnated a teenage virgin, called Mother Mary, with another part of himself, called the son. This son then was tortured to death as a human sacrifice to the father, so that he would forgive humans of the sins they committed against eachother, and that the father will throw anyone who doesn't believe that he killed his son as a human sacrifice to himself, into hell. But that those who do believe that he did this would be possessed by the third part of God, the Holy Spirit, and live forever.


DEISM
A good thing to read for a definition of Deism is the Age of Reason by Thomas Paine, this section of text is a perfect representation of Deistic belief:
"I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond this life.
I believe in the equality of man; and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow-creatures happy.

But, lest it should be supposed that I believe in many other things in addition to these, I shall, in the progress of this work, declare the things I do not believe, and my reasons for not believing them.


I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.


I do not mean by this declaration to condemn those who believe otherwise; they have the same right to their belief as I have to mine. But it is necessary to the happiness of man, that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe."


THE PROBLEM WITH CHRISTIAN BLOOD ATONEMENT
The Christian idea of blood atonement is so thoroughly f*cked up, I will have to go over it in pieces just to address it.

First of all, on what authority can God forgive your sins against someone else? If I steal from you, it is your forgiveness I need, not Gods, because I would have stolen from you, not God.

Secondly, what kind of God returns a finite sin with an infinite punishment? This is not rational or benevolent.

Thirdly, why is it that Jesus can die for our sins but we can't? The God of the Old Testament, which you claim is the same God as the Christian God, said in Ezekiel 18:20:
"The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."
Even according to biblical standards this belief is absurd.

Fourthly, if God is omnipotent, why did he need Jesus to die enable to forgive us, let alone of our sins against others.

Fifthly, Jesus literally died as a vain human sacrifice to himself, so that he could forgive us of things we never did to him:
Jesus: (knock, knock)
Man: "Who's there?"
Jesus: "It's Jesus, let me in."
Man: "Why?"
Jesus: "So I can save you."
Man: "Save me from what?"
Jesus: "Save you from what I am going to do to you if you don't let me in."
If such a man knocked on your door, would you let him in? HELL NO.

Sixth, if the way to atone for sins is through death, we should all be fine. We're all going to die, and thus when we do, our "sin debt" will be paid automatically.

HEARSAY
My opponent, as a Christian, most likely believes that Jesus died, and rose from the grave 3 days later. I have been told this by many Christians, and my answer is always as follows:
Did you see him rise from the grave? If not, then your statement is incorrect, and should not be that "Jesus died and rose from the grave 3 days later," but that you HEARD from someone, who heard from someone else, and so on, that Jesus died and rose 3 days later.
Thomas Paine writes:
"Revelation, when applied to religion, means something communicated immediately from God to man.

No one will deny or dispute the power of the Almighty to make such a communication, if he pleases. But admitting, for the sake of a case, that something has been revealed to a certain person, and not revealed to any other person, it is revelation to that person only. When he tells it to a second person, a second to a third, a third to a fourth, and so on, it ceases to be a revelation to all those persons. It is revelation to the first person only, and hearsay to every other, and consequently they are not obliged to believe it.

It is a contradiction in terms and ideas, to call anything a revelation that comes to us at second-hand, either verbally or in writing. Revelation is necessarily limited to the first communication — after this, it is only an account of something which that person says was a revelation made to him; and though he may find himself obliged to believe it, it cannot be incumbent on me to believe it in the same manner; for it was not a revelation made to me, and I have only his word for it that it was made to him." - The Age of Reason, Section 1.

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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by RonPaulConservative 1 year ago
RonPaulConservative
Ah!
The Jesus-wannabe returns! Perhaps you should become a Talmudic Rabbi?
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Better review this debate;
Atheism- A lost reality! A hopeless, helpless cause!
Hell, Who will go there, and Why?
Posted by RonPaulConservative 1 year ago
RonPaulConservative
Those were all responded to in that debate I posted, read it.
Posted by Rjupudi18 1 year ago
Rjupudi18
No you don't know Christianity or the Bible as I presume you've hardly ever read the Bible in its entirety and probably got your info from anti-Christian websites. If you truly know the Bible, you would know Jesus already fulfilled many prophecies such as being killed for our sins (Isaiah 53) and being God in the flesh (Isaiah 9:6). Jesus will fulfill the rest of the prophecies in His Second Coming.
Posted by RonPaulConservative 1 year ago
RonPaulConservative
You are just making a stupid excuse for not responding to my argument, you don't believe me? Here is my debate where I left Christianity:
http://www.debate.org...
Posted by Rjupudi18 1 year ago
Rjupudi18
You're the retard here because you have nilll knowledge of Christianity and it is a waste of time debating with you. You're probably a troll that has nothing better to do. You were Jewish a few weeks ago now you follow Deism and you claim to have been a Christian which I highly doubt. I was going to post my argument but I understand you don't want a civilized argument but just to whine about why you hate religion so I'm not going to debate because I have 99 things more important than you.
Posted by RonPaulConservative 1 year ago
RonPaulConservative
You were the one without an argument- I was saying you were being retarded because you just forfeited and ruined the whole damn debate!
Posted by Rjupudi18 1 year ago
Rjupudi18
Debating is not calling people retarted. Only people who can't debate use insults like that.
Posted by RonPaulConservative 1 year ago
RonPaulConservative
@Rjupudi
This is debate.org, not polite.org.
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