The Instigator
TheLadyofTheInternet
Pro (for)
Losing
2 Points
The Contender
SpartanHoplite
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points

Democracy & Capitalism Don't Work Together

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
SpartanHoplite
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/2/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 693 times Debate No: 78343
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (8)
Votes (2)

 

TheLadyofTheInternet

Pro

In this debate the argument is that Capitalism & Democracy cannot work with each other.
I as pro believe that it is not possible for Democracy & Capitalism to coincide in a government.
Con would believe that they can work together in a government.

Guidelines:
- This debate will be based both on the theoretical side of those ideologies as well as real life instances
- New users will need to be sure they can finish the debate as I have had alot of people dropping out of debates lately.
- All rounds would need to be referenced (wikipedia not recommended)
- Do not sign up if there is a chance you may not finish the debate.
- Personal opinions are allowed but more structured facts are recommended for this debate.


Round 1 will just be acceptance

SpartanHoplite

Con

"I as pro believe that it is not possible for Democracy & Capitalism to coincide in a government.
Con would believe that they can work together in a government."

According to Dictionary.com:
an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

Capitalism is not a system of government, therefore it can not coincide with anything in a government; however, it can coincide with a government, including a democratic government, because it is the inevitable system of an economy if a government has a minimal interference with the economy. Capitalism coinciding with a democratic government is always a POSSIBILITY, due to the fact it is always a possibility with any government, so long as it's interference is minimal in the economy.
Debate Round No. 1
TheLadyofTheInternet

Pro

TheLadyofTheInternet forfeited this round.
SpartanHoplite

Con

I think I won.
Debate Round No. 2
TheLadyofTheInternet

Pro

No you didn't win but you did just waste an argument round. I've been studying for my degree and I overestimated my due time so I accidentally missed the date so yeah.

Capitalism: An economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.

Democracy: A system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

Statement 1
Although Capitalism isn't a direct form of government it heavily shapes a society and in turn the government as well. Who do you think has the most effect on a government the poorer classes or those who can afford to shape the government. This can range from taxes all the way to how much you pay for electricity and other necessities. If someone wants to knock down a rain forest for a car park who would the government most likely listen to the one who is willing to pay for the ability to create the car park or the ones with nothing to offer except their opinion and effort. In the worst cases money is what causes rigged elections with the person who promises the more powerful companies the most is the one who will most likely win the election. This doesn't have anything to do with fairness or what is right. Corruption is so easy in a democratic government especially when we must put so much trust in people we don't really know.

Statement 2
Most are claiming that the two cannot work without each other this is untrue as democracy can work with socialism and some other forms of political systems as well. Capitalism does work best with democracy but can work around other systems if changes were made to that system but this is more of a focus on democracy than capitalism. These ideas are forced onto us that one cannot live without the other but this is untrue because these two work best together for people with the power and money to manipulate them. Even if they cannot work without each other this would show that these political systems need to change as democracy would no longer actually be democracy because it purely derives on the the ability of everyone to have a say on their government and when that right is taken away it no longer is "democracy".
SpartanHoplite

Con

I wasted that round out of fairness.

Rebuttal 1: This would not be a problem if the government is small with little money going through it: the more money going through government, the more opportunity there is to use it for corrupt purposes. Also, the less agencies and parts of government with unelected officials, the less corruption there will be, because if they are a part of a scandal, the people can vote for a replacement, and there will be less officials to be corrupt in the first place; small, efficient government is ultimately the best way to prevent corruption. The ability to impeach a public official also aids in the prevention of corruption.

Rebuttal 2: As long as you can vote for an official to represent you, without manipulation of votes, it is a democracy. whether the official is corrupt or not is irrelevant to it being a democracy. The problem is that big, inefficient government is a strain on an economy, because its money, taken through high taxes, is used to "employ" supporters of corrupt officials' campaign into a useless agency rather than promote the common good, because that is how the corrupt gain funds. Also, when people vote for an official simply because they promise to take a successful person's wealth and give it to them, the official is buying those people's votes. The rich do not buy the corrupt nearly as much as the corrupt buy the poor.

Regardless, democracy does work with capitalism, and if you want to limit corruption (there is always some amount of corruption in any government, no matter the economic system of the country), the government must be small, efficient, and contain no unelected officials. Logically, the less money in government, the less corrupt, because the corrupt are following the money.
Debate Round No. 3
TheLadyofTheInternet

Pro

Okay if you say so

Statement 1 – The problem with your entries is that they currently only explain an alternative to a situation but have not stated in any way that Democracy & Capitalism actually work together. Going through what you said you currently are saying my statements may be correct in the right situation. You also spoke a lot of corruption but failed to mention how it has nothing to do with the chosen political systems. My belief is that together Capitalism & Democracy makes it a lot easier to create corruption how can we make sure that these people working in the government are being fair by the laws when they create the laws.

Statement 2 – Altogether I like both democracy and capitalism I believe they are fair and good political systems that if done correctly and fairly can do good towards the people it works for. Problem is when these systems are in practice those being hurt by them the most are often the ones at the lowest end of the scales and the current social status system found in democracy makes it harder for those on the bottom to make their way upwards towards a better life. I feel for a fair system the current western method is no longer working I wouldn’t say they should be eradicated entirely as they both possess values built on freedom which everyone should be entitled too but gone are the days where it was really that simple.

Closing Note – I hope that we realize our current systems are far from perfect and we need to further evolve them to create less corruption. For some it is harder to see the issues because with our system it can easily just dust these issues under the rug and creates a belief among others that we should only care for ourselves and what happens to others is their own problem I believe it is everyone’s problem as it causes us to further grow apart.

References

http://foreignpolicy.com...

https://www.washingtonpost.com...
SpartanHoplite

Con

Your argument is supposed to be that Capitalism and Democracy do not work together (I assume you meant they do not work because they cause too much corruption together), yet my solutions prove otherwise. I was explaining solutions to prove that Capitalism and Democracy do not have to allow extensive corruption in the government, and this is proof because it had already been done by the founders of what became by far the most powerful and innovative country in the world, the USA. They believed if the government interfered with the liberty of the people as little as possible, it would allow for a happy and prosperous people. In order to do that, they needed a government elected by the people and had it's powers separated among various branches. They knew the corrupt would try to take it over and enslave the people, so they made it as small as possible with as little power over the people as possible, so there would be little opportunity to use it to exploit the wealth of the people for themselves. That kind of government is the only government that has as little corruption as possible, and it is democratic and allows a free market.
The point is it is possible to have a democratic government that allows capitalism with very limited corruption, which you were arguing can not be the case, because it has already happened when the current government of the US was established, it's just that progressive ideas of big government and over-regulation has made it as corrupt as every other democratic, capitalistic society. Your argument is Incorrect because what you said can not happen, did happen, and it is so corrupt today because it is not what it originally was.
My source: The Constitution of the United Stated of America (the original one, including the bill of rights)
Debate Round No. 4
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by SpartanHoplite 1 year ago
SpartanHoplite
But I suppose that does not matter, since you broke your own rule by not referencing in argument three either.
Posted by SpartanHoplite 1 year ago
SpartanHoplite
Oops, i forgot to reference, but how about my reference for argument three be the amount of agencies in the U.S. federal government, which the majority of, despite their names, do not actually do anything.
Posted by mathew98 1 year ago
mathew98
both democracy and capitalism are interdependent and cannot exist without each other.for the enitre financing of political activities in a democracy are funded by capitalists.
Posted by mathew98 1 year ago
mathew98
both democracy and capitalism are interdependent and cannot exist without each other.for the enitre financing of political activities in a democracy are funded by capitalists.
Posted by mathew98 1 year ago
mathew98
both democracy and capitalism are interdependent and cannot exist without each other.for the enitre financing of political activities in a democracy are funded by capitalists.
Posted by mathew98 1 year ago
mathew98
both democracy and capitalism are interdependent and cannot exist without each other.for the enitre financing of political activities in a democracy are funded by capitalists.
Posted by mathew98 1 year ago
mathew98
both democracy and capitalism are interdependent and cannot exist without each other.for the enitre financing of political activities in a democracy are funded by capitalists.
Posted by mathew98 1 year ago
mathew98
both democracy and capitalism are interdependent and cannot exist without each other.for the enitre financing of political activities in a democracy are funded by capitalists.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
TheLadyofTheInternetSpartanHopliteTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro forfeited a round. This is poor conduct.
Vote Placed by Midnight1131 1 year ago
Midnight1131
TheLadyofTheInternetSpartanHopliteTied
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Total points awarded:24 
Reasons for voting decision: FF, so conduct to Con. Arguments to Con also, because they showed successfully how democracy and capitalism do work together, and how a good democratic government can help tackle corruption. With the basic logic that if the public disagrees with one elected official, they will then elect them out of office. Pro actually never mentioned their arguments from the third round in their conclusion, they simply restated their beliefs. Sources to Pro, because they were the only one who used them.