The Instigator
FallofEmpire888
Pro (for)
Losing
14 Points
The Contender
Freeman
Con (against)
Winning
56 Points

Democracy is a Violent Religion.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/7/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,247 times Debate No: 9984
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (11)

 

FallofEmpire888

Pro

I believe that democracy is a violent religion.
Reasons:
1) People who believe and advocate democracy believe in the constitution that gives them there "rights".
2) They believe that democracy is the only acceptable form of social organization.
3) Claim that democracy is synonymous with freedom
4) That states are justified and is the "will of the people"
5) That people control the state
6) Democracy maintains it's ideology through ignorance and scorns people who questions it's legitimacy
7) Promoting imperialism and nation building to stop "terrorism" hypocrisy because states inflict and cause terrorism.
8) The myth that so called "public goods" and services can only be provided by the state. While ignoring historical evidence.

In conclusion I think that democracy is a religion and the religious institution the state indoctrinates people who criticizes it's legitimacy. People blindly follow the propaganda of democracy and believe that it is or leads to "freedom", while ignoring the arguments against and alternative voluntary solutions. Just like the states which preceded it, it has been perpetuated through religion. The violence of democracy is hidden by the "patriotism", flags and banners and most importantly the ideology itself.
Freeman

Con

Let me begin by thanking FallofEmpire888 for creating this debate.

My opponent has failed to define religion, so I will do this for him- with good intentions of course. It would be an understatement to say that defining religion is a very difficult. Consequently, I will give three very reasonable definitions of religion.

---Defining Religion---

"Religion: A general term used... to designate all concepts concerning the belief in god(s) and goddess(es) as well as other spiritual beings or transcendental ultimate concerns."
—Penguin Dictionary of Religions (1997).
"Religion: Relation of human beings to God or the gods or to whatever they consider sacred or, in some cases, merely supernatural."
—Britannica Concise Encyclopedia (online, 2006)
"Religion: Human beings' relation to that which they regard as holy, sacred, spiritual, or divine."
—Encyclop�dia Britannica (online, 2006) �� [1]

---Defining Democracy---

Democracy:

1. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
2. A political or social unit that has such a government.
3. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
4. Majority rule.
5. The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community. [2]

Contention 1: Democracy is not a religion at all.

My opponents contentions are not only completely unfounded, they simply miss the point. Even if they were true they would not show that democracy was a religion. Furthermore, given my definitions of religion and democracy, it is quite easy to see that my opponent's resolution commits the fallacy of equivocation. [3] Attempting to broaden and mold the definition of religion so much that it includes democracy is simply nonsensical. (Resolution negated)

---References---

[1] Definitions of religion # 1-3 http://www.religionfacts.com...
[2] http://www.thefreedictionary.com...
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 1
FallofEmpire888

Pro

I would like to thank Freeman for joining this debate. I am simply here to try to open peoples views on society and personally winning this debate is irrelevant.

Freeman's democracy is very typical of most people who believe in democracy. Lets first look at his definition of democracy:

1.Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.

"Government by the people" The main problem with this definition other than it is simply untrue, is that it implies that people have control in the decision making process of there state who claims a monopoly over decision making. Also when have I meet and signed a contract with my representatives to express my views. Where is my power other than the tyranny of the ballot?

3.The common people, considered as the primary source of political power

Even if all the people in the world consented to the state this would not justify it's power over such people. The state can simply indoctrinate the masses and use violence at the margins to keep there power they would not to be consented to by the people of a free society. The dictates of the people and the rulers is not a justification in itself over the individual freedom.

4.Majority rule.

The people do not rule under democracy they are simply indoctrinated to choose over an arbitrary ruler which is thrown at them from the rulers. They are enslaved to the ballot forced to pick an arbitrary side in hopes of saving there freedom. The minority rules over the people through political indoctrination and violence. If the mafia came to you an told you that you have a choice over which one would steal from you would this actually be a choice? No of course not because you wouldn't have chosen it in the first place because it is not voluntary. The people are manipulated by state semi owned corporations and special interest groups, bribing lobbyist etc. I could continue the list on and on but the core of my counter argument is that "the people" do not have control over the rulers.

5.The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community

Social Equality? Do you think the rulers are viewed as equal to us nonsense. After the manipulation and exploitation is initiated do you think that they actually care and respect us no the state uses us as a tool for there own self interested power over us.

In conclusion the state uses the fantasy of a so called "government" that will work for the people respect the people and help the people. This ideology is coercive and forces people to accept and not realize what is going on. The religious ideology of the state is not a monotheism but it is still a religion based on false claims and blind faith in support of the state and the mythology of the constitution. States formed from religious institution just look at Egyptian Empire Greek, Roman and Earlier ones they claimed they where gods or related to gods. After the Enlightenment the states had to secularized so they created secular religions not justified by gods but by other means of propaganda and manipulation.

http://fringeelements.ning.com...
http://fringeelements.ning.com...
Freeman

Con

My opponent has created a rather long irrelevant argument. Moreover, he has done nothing to show why democracy is a violent religion.

*Case Con: Rebuttals*

"The religious ideology of the state is not a monotheism but it is still a religion based on false claims and blind faith in support of the state and the mythology of the constitution."

Democracy is quite clearly not a religion. All you need to do is refer back to my original definitions of religion. Once again, my opponent is simply conflating definitions.

=======
Conclusion
=======

FallofEmpire888, if you wanted to argue that democracy is oppressive then you should have made that your resolution. Calling democracy a religion simply makes your arguments seem needlessly obtuse.
Debate Round No. 2
FallofEmpire888

Pro

I guess Freeman has proven me wrong on that democracy is a religion I should have changed it to democracy is violent or oppressive but it is now useless to continue on. VOTE FOR CON! Though democracy has some aspects of religion such as belief in false claims about democracy that it is rule by the majority etc. Also is ignorant and intolerant of other view points and will use violence to maintain or spread its power.

"But this theory of our government is wholly different from the practical fact. The fact is that the government, like a highwayman, says to a man: 'Your money, or your life.' And many, if not most, taxes are paid under the compulsion of that threat. The government does not, indeed, waylay a man in a lonely place, spring upon him from the roadside, and, holding a pistol to his head, proceed to rifle his pockets. But the robbery is none the less a robbery on that account; and it is far more dastardly and shameful. The highwayman takes solely upon himself the responsibility, danger, and crime of his own act. He does not pretend that he has any rightful claim to your money, or that he intends to use it for your own benefit. He does not pretend to be anything but a robber. He has not acquired impudence enough to profess to be merely a 'protector,' and that he takes men's money against their will, merely to enable him to 'protect' those infatuated travellers, who feel perfectly able to protect themselves, or do not appreciate his peculiar system of protection. He is too sensible a man to make such professions as these. Furthermore, having taken your money, he leaves you, as you wish him to do. He does not persist in following you on the road, against your will; assuming to be your rightful 'sovereign,' on account of the 'protection' he affords you. He does not keep 'protecting' you, by commanding you to bow down and serve him; by requiring you to do this, and forbidding you to do that; by robbing you of more money as often as he finds it for his interest or pleasure to do so; and by branding you as a rebel, a traitor, and an enemy to your country, and shooting you down without mercy, if you dispute his authority, or resist his demands. He is too much of a gentleman to be guilty of such impostures, and insults, and villanies as these. In short, he does not, in addition to robbing you, attempt to make you either his dupe or his slave."_Lysander Spooner

http://mises.org...
Freeman

Con

A meeting of the minds has been achieved and my opponent has graciously conceded the debate. Consequently, there is nothing more for us to argue about.

For your entertainment I will simply post random videos.
Debate Round No. 3
FallofEmpire888

Pro

Great I will do the same:
Freeman

Con

Extend my arguments and enjoy.
Debate Round No. 4
FallofEmpire888

Pro

More videos! this debate is dead!
Freeman

Con

My opponent has conceded the debate…
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Pseudonym 7 years ago
Pseudonym
yay for random videos!
Posted by Lifeisgood 7 years ago
Lifeisgood
Arguments + Grammar + Sources to Con.
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