The Instigator
secarl19
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Overhead
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points

Democracy is better than Communism

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Overhead
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/5/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 317 times Debate No: 89193
Debate Rounds (1)
Comments (2)
Votes (2)

 

secarl19

Pro

My first point as to why democracy is far superior to Communism is because Communism provides absolutely no incentive for people to work. If everybody gets exactly the same amount of things in life, then what would be the point of educating yourself, and trying hard at your job or even getting a job?
Secondly, the main difference between Socialism and Communism is that the government owns everything in Communism. So, on top of the fact that there are no longer any incentives to work, the government could decide to just take away everything you currently have if they want to.
Overhead

Con

Good Luck.

Instigator is PRO and has BoP to support their claim. However they never relate any point back to the topic. Even if each point was right, they never show that "Communism is bad because of X" means that it is worse than democracy. I believe he therefore loses based on topicality.

I will also dispute his two core arguments as best as I am able to in 3k char limit.

"Communism provides absolutely no incentive for people to work"

Communism provides lots of incentive. As Cambridge Professor Ha-Joon Chang has explained, money is only one of many motivators for why we work.

"The assumption of self-seeking individualism, which is at the heart of free-market economics, has a lot of resonance with our personal experience. We have all been cheated by unscrupulous traders, be it the fruit seller who put some rotten plums at the bottom of the paper bag of the yogurt company that vastly exaggerated the health benefits of its products. We know too many corrupt politicians and lazy bureaucrats to believe that all public servants are solely serving the public.

...

This is true. However, we also have a lot of evidence - not just anecdotes but true systematic evidence - showing that self-interest is not the only human motivation that matters in our economic life. Self-interest, to be sure, is one of the most important, but we have many other motives - honesty, self-respect, altruism, love, sympathy, faith, sense of duty, solidarity, loyalty, public-spiritedness, patriotism, and so on - that are sometimes even more important than self-seeking as the driver of our behaviours." - 23 Things They Don't Tell you About Capitalism - Ha-Joon Chang

We have all kinds of motivators beyond self-interest.

Additionally personal gain is still a motivator under Communism, just a second order motivator. To get everything in Communism requires maintaining the system, which requires people working.

Main difference between Socialism and Communism is that the government owns everything in Communism

Common misconception. Even the Soviet states he is implicitly referring to did not consider themselves communist. The Communist parties were called that because that is what the original major party, the Communist Party of the USSR called itself.

The Communist Party of the Soviet Union wasn't known as that until the 1950's previously being known as All-Union Communist Party (bolsheviks), Russian Communist Party and originally Russian Social Democratic Labour Party (bolsheviks). When they added Communist to their name it was because although they admitted they were practicing socialism, communism was the eventual end goal. [1] This also meets the principles Marx and Engels gave when they defined the differences between the two and how they would develop.[2]

Therefore the "government owns everything" actually would apply to socialism based on the self-definition of the countries involved, so whatever point this is meant to make is turned.

[1] https://goo.gl...
[2] https://goo.gl...

Debate Round No. 1
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Overhead 8 months ago
Overhead
Agreed, if not for the character limit I would have made that argument myself.
Posted by bhakun 8 months ago
bhakun
Democracy is a fundamental part of communism. There is no one or the other.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 8 months ago
Ragnar
secarl19OverheadTied
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Reasons for voting decision: The motivation to work was a nice assertion, which in future rounds could have gone far. Con effectively reflected it, by pointing out so many other motivators. The government can take stuff away, fell completely flat; con's turn of it was perhaps over stated; still adequately refuted, but the "self-definition of the countries" was a bit of a weak assertion, like how North Korea self-defines itself as the most free and happy place on the planet. I should also note that con's opening assertion that pro lost just by opening the debate, was clever but baseless. Pro was guarenteed to lose from declining any chance to refute con's case or defend his own, but he did not lose automatically for the topic selection.
Vote Placed by Lexus 8 months ago
Lexus
secarl19OverheadTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro's only substantiative claim was unwarranted and was easily thrown out by the con using a lot of empirics (which their Chang evidence claims to have) - when there is more than just self-interest for the economy to consider, then its easy to see that there is no ground for the pro to have. And, while it is a really really bad point from the con, since it's just like untrue. the con wins the pro's point about how the government owns everything in communism - and that it's socialism. If the pro wanted any chance at winning, then I think they should have made it more than just one round long.