The Instigator
Blueml2411
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
OverSeeker
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Democracy is not real or the best form of government!

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/18/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 426 times Debate No: 79873
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (0)

 

Blueml2411

Pro

When I look at it there is no such thing as a complete and real democracy. I like the example: If there is 10 people and there is a vote of who wants subs and who wants pizza and 6/10 people choose pizza what happens to the people who wanted subs? Yes its a majority vote and its the peoples vote but its not equality. In a democracy you can vote for the candidates but you can't vote for what they do, for example if 50% of a country voted to raise the minimum wage to say $15/hr, it wouldn't happen because a "democratic" vote needs the majority to win which at the minimum has to be over 50%. This is considered democratic though? Shouldn't it be called a majority system.

-Merriam Webster defines democracy as this:
-an organization or situation in which everyone is treated equally and has equal rights.

Well that should be tossed out the window, if 51% votes to make gay marriage illegal the 49% are not being treated equally because their wish is not granted. Also if the government wants to keep it legalized then the 51% isn't being treated equally either. Either way in a "democratic" country no one wins unless 100% EXACTLY votes the same thing. Usually there is always an opposing force almost never have I seen an entire country vote for the same thing. If a "democratic" country is governed by the people then wouldn't it be considered a state of anarchy (and by anarchy I mean the ideology and theory not immediate chaos) politically? We don't choose when/where or who we fight the government does. We don't choose how high the minimum wage is the government does. I think if the government gave everyone a chance to vote, should we keep taxes? How many would say no, well not everyone because there is usually always an opposing force and the fact that tax dollars pays for a lot of important things.

-Another important point is the instability of democracies. Since 1867 Canada has had about 28 prime ministers not all of them are the same party. U.S.A has had about 43 presidents. These constant changes can lead to instability and that is never good for a growing country. For example, in the U.S.A., in the 22nd amendment it states the following:

- No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.

What if Obama had a really good idea but he needed a year to complete it but he only had 3 months left, and then when the new president arrived he/she decided "nah I don't want to do this let's do something I invented". That's representing instability.
OverSeeker

Con

I would start my rebuttal with a question. What are the alternatives? Democracy is where a nation is governed by the people. If not Democracy, then what else? Yes, some people will be angry because their favoring voting side lost, however, to be fair, the majority did win. But what if that system were to be gone? A long time ago, where Monarchy were to be the most dominant way of governing the people. Monarchs told people what to do and most of the time, against the people's own free will. People would be massacred and executed for defiance alone. Or for some cases, for no reason at all, all under the orders of the Monarchs. The people would have no say in a society ran by Monarchy. What about Communism? No, the actual kind of Communism. Course, what you might be thinking of is Stalinism and or Putinism. No, actual Communism at it's basic core is a nation ran by the people without a class system. Meaning that there's an absence of money and ownership to establish social order. It's all ran by the people, without greed nor corruption. However, that can't be established since we humans are unpredictable and probably evil by nature. I mean, have you went on 4chan recently?! That place is human nature at it's finest! I could be exaggerating a bit there, however, my point stays. What about a Theocracy? A perfect Theocratic nation would need heavy censoring of all outside influences, must be heavily isolated from other nations, and must be insanely strict to the point of slavery and servitude, so their way of belief and faith remains pure. Kinda like a dictatorship, except more religion involved. However, with intense isolation and strict rules follows a technological slow down. The perfect Theocracy nation would be technologically inferior compared to other nations. Unless, their religion is based around improving technology and inventing things, then, okay, that would be interesting than all hells combined. I mean, that would be cool to see. Besides that, no. What about a Technocracy? It's ran by elite professionals that specializes in a certain area, such as engineering, or military, or Health, or history, or education, or science, or pretty much anyone that the nation needs helped by. Instead of a nation ran by people, it's ran by skilled, educated, professional elites. It sounds good on paper, but it's kinda situational. For example, while some who is extremely skilled and educated in technology, but has no idea how the economy works, therefore may unintentionally ruin their nation by trying to create, oh I don't know, a giant robot? Or how some Technocrats would rather build more hospitals than fix the roads, or focuses more on fixing the roads than education budgets. Of course, a Technocrat can potentially be educated and skilled in all fields. It's unlikely since the human brain can only remember and learn so many things before forgetting. But, not impossible. Except not all fields are perfect, and there's more things that can be improved or modified on certain fields, like economics with the fiscal policy or the advancing of technologies. In short, a Technocracy is good for situational purposes. Now back to your argument; Democracy is not real or the best form of government! Well, let's discuss Democracy. We're of course, discussing Democracy that's made for America by it's founding fathers. Do note that the constitution were appropriate at the time, for example, the second amendment is really okay for that time era. Where before they got their independence from the Brits, AKA, Redcoats, AKA England, it was a lawless place, where all men were to defend themselves and forge law and order to a place that was ruled by untamed wilderness and the unknowns. America's Democracy was suppose to make the government's powers as limited as possible, and even goes as far as setting up three branches of legislature, which in my interpretation, are constantly at each others' necks. Insuring the States have the power to govern its people. Unless, the States break a rule, in which the Government will intervene. Honestly, the States kinda have more power over America's people than the government itself, my opinion of course. At it's core, Democracy is a system of government ran by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives. Basically, all the people of America votes, all people of a state vote for a person that can vote on the behalf or the majority of said state in which will vote, all votes will get into the appropriate legislatures, in which will pass the final verdict. At Least that way, people have some power over the fate of their own nation. So to answer your argument, Democracy is the best form of government America can have.
Debate Round No. 1
Blueml2411

Pro

When I said democracy isn't the best form of government don't forget I'm definitely NOT saying it's the worst I'm just stating it may not be the best in some countries. Of course when you really look at it, any form of government can be the best or the worst depending on who governs it. If a dictator meets all the citizens wants and needs and manages to respect the people he/she governs that would be considered a good dictatorship(not all dictators are bad). This also implies that if someone can manage to also meet the requirements for the citizens of a country in a democratic state that would also be a good democracy.
Now I want to get into communism. Not bad USSR communism, the original theory of communism Utopian Communism. Of course when people think Utopia it usually means a place were no sins are committed and everyone has equal rights, now of course sadly this form of Utopia can't happen in the modern world but Communism is one of the closest things. What I think the flaw here in communism is, is that the citizens don't legally own anything. People also state that its not fair that someone who does for example statistical factoring (A.K.A. sits down and plays with office toys and dreads going to work everyday) would have the same amount of things as a doctor and any kind including neurosurgeons, vascular surgeons, oncologists etc. and what's really put to the test here is how much "money" means to you when choosing a job. I know some doctors who are among the lowest paid physicians, family doctors, but I know they sincerely do not care about the money and could care less if they got a bonus, the only thing they really care about that involves money is if they get paid enough to keep their family running. For people who actually love their "jobs" (jobs is in quotations because technically it's a career if you enjoy it) they would be supported in Communism because it's provided by the government. As of right now I will admit that Communism is also unstable but in theory if its followed it can be the best form of Government.
OverSeeker

Con

So we both agree that any form of government ran by the right people will resolve in good leadership. By that logic, all forms of government is good, but only when used correctly. So the problem is not with whether Democracy is not real or the best form of government, the problem lies with its people. All forms of government can be used for good leadership, therefore Democracy can be a real and or best form of government with the right people in charge. I've already stated my concerns for some of the forms of government as examples on our previous round, stating the down sides and or unlikelihood of these governing methods' success. Of course, as you mentioned in this round, they can all be a good way to govern people. I will agree it is true, however, again, that all lies within the capabilities of the people using such methods. In truth, Communism was suppose to be a method of leadership that was suppose to be immune to both corruption and greed. We all know what happens when it's executed by bad people, or simply people who wants power, dominants, respect, honor, pleasure or simply to be better than everyone else. We were all given examples from the past, when people would not let go power, instead they use that power to make sure they stay in power. We all should know what lengths some people would do to keep that power. I would like everyone to acknowledge that if something can happen in the past, can happen again in the future. Therefore, as long as those who are longing for power will never stop trying to find a way to corrupt the system to their own benefits. Not saying there's no good doers in the world, I'm just saying there's a good side and a bad side to everything, especially governments. Which brings us back to your initial argument; Democracy is not real or the best form of government! Like a hammer that to be used to build houses, bridges, and more, can be used as a way to murder millions. Democracy has many upsides and downsides, but note that under capable hands, it can be used greatly like any other governing methods. So yes, Democracy is a real and best form of government for America.
Debate Round No. 2
Blueml2411

Pro

Ok well I agree that democracy is the best form of government for America, however for other countries with that population count, communism would be even better. In a country will a big population there is of course more poverty and less equality, however communism fixes that. There are no classes in communism just one very equal class. For example, China is a communist government, it seems to be working out for them (yes I do know that North Korea is a communist government but sort of logically it's a dictatorship), having said that, democracy is working out for the U.S.A. also. I think I have made most of my points clear and I don't feel like I really have to restate them. For me communism is the closest form of government to equality, however among everybody there is a different opinion, like I stated in round 1 there is usually always an opposing force and that cannot be changed. When looking at the best forms of governments it can always be broken down to "it depends on..." that could be: the leader, the country, the people etc. To end this debate there is not one but 196 countries in today's modern world. Every country with a different opinion and a different government best suited for it. For me in the country I live in to me, communism is the best form of government.
OverSeeker

Con

In this modern world, the era of information, and the age of advancements, there are, as you said, 196 countries in all have differentiating ideas of government that suits them. We both agree on that. However, I do have to state that China actually shows more Socialism than Communism, for they do have a government with class, such as a business tycoon, where workers work in factories and the businessmen sells stuff. They even have states, at least that's what I call them. The landlords of said states actually sell their land to cities. The Chinese farmers who's living on said land have little to no say in the matter. The Chinese farmers usually revolt and fight back against the construction workers that were ordered to demolish the homes of said farmers. For you see, the Chinese farmers were, most all the time, left out of the advancements of our world today. Even though, they are a crafty bunch, for example, one Chinese farmer made arms for himself after both of his arms were, well, lets say gone. I'm still confused over how he even managed to make arms, not to mention with both of them missing. Or the time one of them made a car out of metal scraps, even though his car doesn't have glass windows. Or the time one of them made RPGs out of fireworks. Yes, they made RPGs to combat construction workers. I actually don't care what anyone says, that's cool. If you were wondering, farmers are allowed to live and grow from the land, but can't own the land nor sell the land, the landlord owns the land and can sell the land. That's just one of the many rules from China. Or the fact, China can and probably will use whatever means to increase the chances of Chinese citizens' offsprings' being a boy. Common knowledge, I know. Or how they literally over censor everything, or cut people off from using the whole internet. As in, they monitor information that can go to the public. I actually miss when China was technically a good place to live, when I still was able to breath in the air and not choke! I really miss those simpler times... My point is, China might not be a very good example for pure Communism... I should know since I lived there. Now back to pure communism where everyone is equally important as the next guy in line. In truth, I would think it could work, because what Communism tries to create is a family out of everyone. A nation where everyone is family, no one is more important as the next, because in family, everyone is important. But even in family, there's always conflict, and there's, more or less, always someone in your family you dislike. How would one punish in a Communistic nation? A nation with no class, equals a nation with no authority, equals a nation no one to make laws, therefore a lawless nation. Even though it technically can work, since America does have a place with pure communism. It's located in California, in a place called, Slab City. The place was originally a Military Barrack, until the US demolished it down, leaving the large area with Slabs for ground. You got to note that, it was a huge barrack. Slab City is mostly inhabited by what the US authority calls, Hippies and Weirdos. They usually live in RVs or Tents and made a place for themselves for music festivals slash meeting area. Even though, technically, it's just tables and sofas arranged in a certain way. They go to a local supermarket to buy stuff and I have no idea where they work for money. Seriously though, where do they work? They are those who goes to the burning man festivals. And anyone who goes there is probably awesome. And self sufficient, most of the time. So yes, Slab City is probably the closest place to achieve pure Communism without much corruption and greed. Also, if you randomly decide to go live in Slab City, well, pro tip; be efficient, be polite, be an outdoorsmen, be willing to share, know when to stop sharing, know how to trust, know how to not get anyone mad, and be friendly to everyone since you'll be living with them. Also know how to farm. Also be okay without any wifi, unless you're going to be that messiah and bring wifi to the land. For free. I would like to bring more new things to the table, like economics, capitalism, trades, profession, living conditions, routines and etc. But, I think this is the last round, so I'll wrap this up. Overall, I believe Democracy is the perfect mix of freedom and authority. Everyone has some power for their future and we are all allowed to criticize it without getting into too much trouble. Democracy is always evolving and changing for new generations, but remains constants for it's ideals and identity to remain intact. I mean gay marriage is a thing now, how much points does that give to Democracy? So to end this debate, when it's all said and done, Democracy is the best form of government. It even allows a place for pure Communism! That is until California want it's land back... Protest anyone?
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by Blueml2411 1 year ago
Blueml2411
Good job, and we will see the results good luck
Posted by OverSeeker 1 year ago
OverSeeker
Debate's over, let's see the results!
Posted by OverSeeker 1 year ago
OverSeeker
Okay, not bad. Let's end this debate once and for all.
Posted by Blueml2411 1 year ago
Blueml2411
Have fun ending the debate! Your move
Posted by OverSeeker 1 year ago
OverSeeker
Your move.
Posted by OverSeeker 1 year ago
OverSeeker
Well then. Round two, let's go.
Posted by Blueml2411 1 year ago
Blueml2411
Your move
Posted by Blueml2411 1 year ago
Blueml2411
I must admit, well said...my turn.
Posted by OverSeeker 1 year ago
OverSeeker
Your move.
No votes have been placed for this debate.