The Instigator
alcarter
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
imabench
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points

Democrats are losing their way in America.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
imabench
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/28/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 778 times Debate No: 37118
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

alcarter

Pro

We all grew up hearing these stories about famous and pure-hearted Presidents such as Lincoln or FDR (not as much because he signed an executive order that forced the internment of 120,000 Japanese Americans). We hear about how liberalism shaped America and redefined freedom and brought equality to Blacks and women. All of this is true. (Back in Lincoln's days, the Republicans were the liberals, up until FDR) Yet liberalism has drifted from what it used to be back in FDR's days and in Lincoln's days. Liberalism has become a fighting force for people who want to legalize marijuana, legalize abortion (in all cases), etc. Is this really in the best interest of America. Do we really need more teenagers smoking weed as it is? Because if we legalize it, it will make it even more easy for teenagers to get it. If we decrease the risk of pregnancy for teenagers, it is just going to get more and more teenagers having sex. Abortion should only be used in extreme cases such as rape, life of the mother is threatened, the baby has a disease that will make them die nearly after birth/at birth, etc. Abortion shouldn't be used as a last resort to prevent having a baby. People don't want to take the Morning after pill and use protection, they just would rather pay $400 and get the abortion. Contrary to liberalism, I think conservatism has improved over the ages, now that Conservatives want equality for all races (hopefully). So here is my question, is it truly the GOP who is out of touch, or is the Democrats? Because the most of us don't want teenagers going around smoking weed or teenagers having sex and then getting abortions. When you decrease the risk of anything, you increase the likelyhood of somebody doing it. Most of us believe in capitalism and hard work. We believe we should be able to work our way up by being innovative and that wealth should not be distributed too much. Higher taxes for the rich, but do not tax the middle class and the poor more. Democrats in many Northern states have passed legislation that makes them pay outrageous labor union fees that many of them object to paying because they are conservative and recognize labor unions as another big business. Do I believe one party is better than the other, both have good sides and both sure as heck have down sides, particularly in the 21st century. I will go ahead an and remind people that Obama got more money from Wall Street than McCain and what did Obama do straight when he got into office, bailed out all these large companies. If Obama is the average liberal, then I can only assume that "average" liberals are more than happy to sign off on orders to kill women and children with drone strikes and pass through legislature that will cripple our economy even more. Kind of harsh to say, but Democrats will not hear a word against Obama. They present no facts to the table, just biased opinions.

http://www.policymic.com...

They will not open their ears to the fact that Obamacare, in its present form, will fail. He might make some changes that will get rid of the faults and it might work then. Democrats continue to try to prevent people from buying semi-auto guns. Obviously, this will do nothing as it is more of a social/mental problem and background and mental checks are the only things that can help. Has anyone noticed that these more gruesome murders have been carried out in states that are heavily liberal and are non for their anti-gun beliefs and not in heavily conservative states who are known for being slack on gun laws? It is a problem that can only be fixed by doing background checks on all people who want to buy guns. Some of the countries with the worst crime rates have no gun laws such as Mexico. Anti-gun laws do not prevent criminals from getting them. They get theirs from the black market. It only prevents law-abiding citizens from obtaining them for protection. If a robber were to come into my house armed with a pistol from the black market, I would like to know that I have a shotgun nearly as much as I would like to know I have a phone that can reach 911. Think back to that story a couple weeks ago about those two friends, one a police officer and the other a security guard who shot the robber because he came in brandishing a weapon. There are many liberals who want to not only unarm civilians but also the police. Reducing the weapons on the good side will only increase the amount of weapons on the bad side (ie robbers, murders, etc.) So here is were I draw my conclusions, based off of these logical thoughts, I conclude that though the Liberals are right on many issues such as LGBT rights and anti-death penalty laws, they are very misguided about how people want an economy and society to function.

-Al Carter
imabench

Con

"So here is my question, is it truly the GOP who is out of touch, or is the Democrats? "

Who won the last two presidential elections and has maintained control of the Senate in the past 4 Congresses?.........

The answer is the Democrats, which means the party that is out of touch kinda looks like the GOP considering that they cant win elections.





"Because the most of us don't want teenagers going around smoking weed or teenagers having sex and then getting abortions."

A majority of Americans are in favor of Marijuana legalization: http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
A majority of Americans are fine with teens having premarital sex: http://www.gallup.com...
And a majority of Americans are ok with Abortion: http://www.gallup.com...

In fact if you look at that poll, more Americans are in favor of unconditional abortions then those who think abortion should be illegal under all circumstances, while over half the nation is absolutely fine with restricted abortion.

So yeah, try again.






"If Obama is the average liberal, then I can only assume that "average" liberals are more than happy to sign off on orders to kill women and children with drone strikes "

Actually its conservatives who love drone striking civilians to death... 73% of Republicans support drone strikes while Democrats only support it by 64%.
http://blogs.wsj.com...





"Kind of harsh to say, but Democrats will not hear a word against Obama. They present no facts to the table, just biased opinions."

Dude your entire argument up to this point is based off of your own opinion, and the sad thing is A LOT OF IT is completely false to.





"Democrats continue to try to prevent people from buying semi-auto guns"

Because 62% of Americans favor a Semi-auto assault weapons ban....
http://www.theblaze.com...





"background and mental checks are the only things that can help"

And which party has been the one in favor of background checks again?

Oh yeah, THE DEMOCRATS.





" Has anyone noticed that these more gruesome murders have been carried out in states that are heavily liberal and are non for their anti-gun beliefs and not in heavily conservative states who are known for being slack on gun laws?"

Its because they dont. School massacres occur equally in the North and the South while the states that also have the largest number of gun deaths per 1000 people also are located in both the North and the South alike. There isnt a difference

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...






"It is a problem that can only be fixed by doing background checks on all people who want to buy guns. "

And which party has been asininely against background checks? Thats right, LE REPUBLICANS.





"Some of the countries with the worst crime rates have no gun laws such as Mexico."

Read your own sentence and you'll see why thats an argument in favor of gun control....






"I conclude that though the Liberals are right on many issues such as LGBT rights and anti-death penalty laws, they are very misguided about how people want an economy and society to function."

Pro concedes that Democrats are on the right side by supporting LGBT rights and anti-death penalty laws.

=========================================================================

Ill make this quick so that you all can go about your business as usual

Democrats have won the last two presidential elections and have controlled the Senate in the past four Congresses. In fact in the last election alone the Democrats actually gained seats in both the House and the Senate while Republicans lost seats in both houses. http://www.politico.com...

Meanwhile the Democratic party supports many things that the majority of Americans also support, including weed legalization, abortion, drone strikes, semi-auto weapons bans, background checks, other forms of gun control, LGBT rights, and a whole mess of other things as well.....

The Republican party on the other hand has completely gone to sh*t. Every three weeks one of their members says something idiotic about Abortion, and their candidate for president Romney completely blew a winnable election primarily BECAUSE he was disconnected from reality... Just about every voting bloc that wasnt white men or republican voted in large numbers for Obama

GOP only got 30% of the Latino vote (http://www.huffingtonpost.com...),
10% of the Black vote (http://www.huffingtonpost.com...)
26% of the Asian vote (http://www.bloomberg.com...)
44% of the women vote (http://www.huffingtonpost.com...)
and only 30% of the Youth vote (http://www.politico.com...)

Point is, The Democrats are well in reality and are well in tune with what a majority of Americans want of America, while the GOP on the other hand basically only has one voter base left: old racist white guys.

So the Democratic party has not lost their way. All evidence suggests they are actually on the right path
Debate Round No. 1
alcarter

Pro

^
Typo: "Some of the countries with the worst crime rates have too strict* gun laws such as Mexico."

Civilians aren't allowed to have guns.

Sorry about that.

First, your point about "teens have premarital sex" is invalid. The article you cited was about whether people thought it was morally wrong or right for adults to have premarital sex. Second, may I remind you that Huffington post is far from moderate. Most of their readers are liberals, and therefore, more likely to want to legalize weed.

"In fact if you look at that poll, more Americans are in favor of unconditional abortions then those who think abortion should be illegal under all circumstances, while over half the nation is absolutely fine with restricted abortion. "

You clearly miss my point about how I believe in restricted abortion, but let me re-iterate that I agree with Romney on restricted abortion.

Also, even though much of this country is Democrat, conservatism still reigns dominate, thankfully.

http://www.gallup.com...

We can only conclude that many conservatives, unlike many liberals understand that they should not be associated with the filth of a big party like the GOP or the Democrats and have switched to being independent.

Just to remind everyone who believes the media that Obama is fixing the economy, you are far from representing the majority.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com...

Only 29% percent of Americans believe we are going in the right direction. These 29% either have not visited a gas station in six years, not bought milk or groceries six years, or do not have internet access. Any of these are possible.

Background checks should become a national requirement. Democrats, bless them, do not want only background checks, they would eventually like to make us a country where the civilians are unarmed. That poll was right after Newtown, of course it was going to be higher because the country was still buzzing about it. Now, if there was a poll, it would not have 62% of people wanting to ban semi-automatic weapons. It would be higher than before Newtown, but it would most likely not be as high as 62%. Guns have saved plenty of innocent lives. One tragedy, no matter how tragic, should not indefinitely guide our policies. We should make changes to prevent this, but to ban semi-automatic weapons...? Pointless.

Now I have a question for you, because most liberals are stumped by this.

Many criminals get their guns illegally off the black market, what do we do about them? The black market can't be controlled like a gun shop.

"Meanwhile the Democratic party supports many things that the majority of Americans also support, including weed legalization, abortion, drone strikes, semi-auto weapons bans, background checks, other forms of gun control, LGBT rights, and a whole mess of other things as well....."

First of all, I can guarantee you that no matter what poll you look at, the truth is the majority of people do not want weed legalized other than for medicinal purposes. Who is arguing about keeping abortion, only restricting it. The way it is now, a woman who has no job can have as much unprotected sex as she wants and she can go to a clinic and, on the taxpayers' money by the way, get an abortion. The majority of Americans do not want semi-auto weapons bans. Your only poll presented was right after Newtown, as I said earlier. Background checks are something that both sides (minus tea partiers) want. Other forms of gun control? What does that entail, specifically? I believe background/mental checks and bans on high capacity magazines will suffice. Many Republicans support gay rights, in fact 49% of young Republicans do, as do I.

http://publicreligion.org...

We have a long way to go, as does the Democrat party, but neither are where they should be. I dislike how Democrats keep pointing to the Tea Party and calling them radicals yet Progressives are held with the upmost respect. I find them both repulsive.

-Al Carter
imabench

Con

"First, your point about "teens have premarital sex" is invalid. The article you cited was about whether people thought it was morally wrong or right for adults to have premarital sex."

The average American gets married around 27 years old (http://en.wikipedia.org...) meaning sex before that likely means they are still TEENAGERS when they do it, meaning most americans are fine with teenagers having sex.




"Second, may I remind you that Huffington post is far from moderate. Most of their readers are liberals, and therefore, more likely to want to legalize weed."

Heres a crazy f*cking idea. How about instead of making a piss-poor attempt to discredit one poll, you actually give a poll showing people AGAINST marijuana legalization?





"You clearly miss my point about how I believe in restricted abortion, but let me re-iterate that I agree with Romney on restricted abortion."

I think youre the one missing the point. The point was that a vast, vast number of Americans favor abortion with restrictions, which is exactly what the Democrats advocate to. Only a small, unbelievably small percentage of people think abortion should be illegal under all circumstances, and thats the position the Republicans are clinging to like theres no tomorrow (Judging from how they are doing, there might not be a tomorrow for them).



"Also, even though much of this country is Democrat, conservatism still reigns dominate, thankfully."

Not really
http://www.gallup.com...
http://www.people-press.org...
http://www.nationalreview.com...




"We can only conclude that many conservatives, unlike many liberals understand that they should not be associated with the filth of a big party like the GOP or the Democrats and have switched to being independent."

Are you done spewing your ill founded opinions based on a warped view of reality rather then stay on topic or is this going to be a recurring theme with you?




"Only 29% percent of Americans believe we are going in the right direction. These 29% either have not visited a gas station in six years, not bought milk or groceries six years, or do not have internet access. Any of these are possible."

Ill take that as a very clear no.

Try to stay on topic pro, its not going to help you with the voters.





"Democrats, bless them, do not want only background checks, they would eventually like to make us a country where the civilians are unarmed."

Source your claims otherwise everyone is going to not believe a single thing you say, assuming they already dont.





"That poll was right after Newtown, of course it was going to be higher because the country was still buzzing about it. Now, if there was a poll, it would not have 62% of people wanting to ban semi-automatic weapons."

Heres a crazy idea, how about you try to actually prove one of your claims with sources?




"Many criminals get their guns illegally off the black market, what do we do about them? "

Ah yes, the typical retarded argument that conservatives automatically jump to when denouncing gun control proposals.

Criminals dont get their guns exclusively through the black market dingus, hell not even a majority do. A vast majority of them simply buy guns through individual gun dealers who dont abide by background checks, or they buy them at gun markets that dont require background checks to buy a gun
http://gunvictimsaction.org...




"First of all, I can guarantee you that no matter what poll you look at, the truth is the majority of people do not want weed legalized "

Prepare your anus:

http://www.people-press.org...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
http://www.wkyt.com...
http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com...
http://stpete.patch.com...
http://www.policymic.com...
http://www.quinnipiac.edu...
http://www.mpp.org...
http://www.rasmussenreports.com...
http://www.mpp.org...
http://www.politico.com...
http://www.usnews.com...

Give up yet?




"Who is arguing about keeping abortion"

That would be the Republicans.....




"The majority of Americans do not want semi-auto weapons bans"

I already gave a source indicating that they do....





"Your only poll presented was right after Newtown, as I said earlier"

'Oh waaaa, my source is invalid because it makes your argument false.'




"Background checks are something that both sides (minus tea partiers) want"

Nope, Republicans shot that one down pretty fast:
http://www.washingtonpost.com...
http://www.salon.com...

Turns out that the GOP is the NRA's b*tch.




"Many Republicans support gay rights, in fact 49% of young Republicans do, as do I."

And what percentage of the Republican party consists of YOUNG PEOPLE again? Im guessing its pretty frickin low since the GOP has historically been the party of old white people.





" I dislike how Democrats keep pointing to the Tea Party and calling them radicals yet Progressives are held with the upmost respect"

Well the progressives werent the ones who ate Chick-Fil-A to protest Gay marriage and the progressives arent the ones with the intelligence of a sack of hammers like the Tea Party.....

==============================================================================
Debate Round No. 2
alcarter

Pro

alcarter forfeited this round.
imabench

Con

How about that, he did give up o_O
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by StarTrek 3 years ago
StarTrek
Good ideas, I'll probably make my own version of this but I will incorporate the GOP aswell.
Posted by anonymouse 3 years ago
anonymouse
democrat+republican=corporate dictatorship
Posted by alcarter 3 years ago
alcarter
@Oro
Lol, yea. I probably should have split this up...
Posted by Oromagi 3 years ago
Oromagi
Jeez, Al. You want to debate the future of the Democratic Party, drug policy, abortion, gun control, and Obamacare all at once? You make some interesting and contestable points, but you've thrown too much on the pile. I'm afraid any challenge would be incomprehensible.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by leojm 3 years ago
leojm
alcarterimabenchTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Don't vote for ffs. That's just plain wrong. Con did a good job of taking the pros argument and responding to it. Pro you had good sources, but were not as clear as I would liked it to be. So most of the vote goes to con.