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Did Jesus Claim To Be God In The Bible?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/16/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 872 times Debate No: 68474
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (32)
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Round 1 - First argument
Round 2, 3, 4 - Rebuttal
Round 5 - Conclusion

John 8:24 - "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am, ye shall die in your sins.". (Note: I took the word "He" out because the Greek word for "He", is not in the original text.)[1]

Jesus claimed to be the I Am that God claimed to be in Exodus 3:14)

John 8:58 - "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

He claimed to be the I Am, and claimed to exist before Abraham.

Matthew 28:18 - ""And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."

Only God has all power over Heaven and Earth.

Yahweh said in Isaiah 44:6 - "I [am] the first, and I [am] the last".
Jesus said in Revelation 22:13, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

For my opponent to make a well-grounded argument, they would have to:
Firstly, Refute all my claims about the verses above.
And secondly, has to show verses where Jesus claimed he wasn't divine.

You must do both of those things to have a well-grounded argument.

[1] -


Thank you for allowing a restart Pro.

On to my arguments and some verse rebuttal.

My argument is that Jesus never claimed to be God. There is no verse that reads “I am God” or “We are the same” or anything that simply states that Jesus is God and that God is Jesus.

For example the verse in John 12:44, which reads “Then Jesus cried out, "Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me.”

Why would Jesus separate himself from God in that verse?

Indeed, the debate is on whether or not Jesus claimed he was God, not if he claimed to be divine. Jesus certainly claimed to be divine, but never to actually be the creator.

Keeping with famous John 12:

For when you see me, you are seeing the one who sent me. I have come as a light to shine in this dark world, so that all who put their trust in me will no longer remain in the dark."

No one can come to the Father except through me. If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him!"

Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied."

Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?"

That exchange is the closest Jesus gets to claiming he is God, and yet he never directly says it. He never says “I am God”. He says things like “For when you see me, you are seeing the one who sent me.”

The Father is still separate, even when he “claims to be God”.

So to follow up on your verses:

Exodus – an ancient OT book devoid of Jesus.

John 8:58 – Jesus claims to be ancient, never to be God.

Matthew 28:18 – Jesus claims to be powerful, never to be God.

Isaiah is an ancient book of prophesies, not the word of Jesus.

Revelation 22:13 – Jesus claims to be ancient again, not to be God.

Jesus never claimed that he was the creator, just his “Son”. Another key verse in this line of logic is Matthew 24:36, which reads “But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only.”

Again Jesus separates himself from the Father. In fact, he is so separate, he doesn’t even know what the Father knows.

Why does the Old Testament God never mention Jesus? Why does the God of the OT never say “we”. As in: Jer 32:27 “Behold, I [am] the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?”

John 13:3 “Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come from God and was going to God

God is clearly a different being in that verse.

Jesus obviously not God. God, the creator, the God is a different entity in the bible and even Jesus said so.

Debate Round No. 1


64bithuman forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2


Thank You Pro,

I apologize for being late in my response, I have been preoccupied with school.

I’m not “misunderstanding” the Old Testament. The OT is devoid of the living Christ. This point is not controversial, and if you believe it should be discussed farther then I am happy to oblige next round. Indeed, I dispute the claim that one would need the Old Testament to understand the New Testament. Other than occasional references to prophecies the NT stands quite separate. There is no “lock and key” between the two volumes.

Your alleged connection between John 8:24 and Exodus 3:14 is hardly a bulletproof declaration of being the creator. The full context of that section is essential. Jesus is predicting his death.

(Continued) John 8:25-29

“Then they said to Him, “Who are You?”

And Jesus said to them, “Just what I have been saying to you from the beginning. I have many things to say and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I heard from Him.”

They did not understand that He spoke to them of the Father.

Then Jesus said to them, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things. And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him.

This passage in its entirety is illuminating. Jesus isn’t God because how could the Father have sent him, and how could the Father still be with him if he wasn’t a different being, that is, “the son”.

Note that he states “then you will know that I am He” and in the same breath continues by saying “and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things.” Is Jesus saying he literaly is God or is he simply saying that by acting out his Father’s will he is representing his Father?

Exodus 3:14 is a message from God, true, but it isn’t about Jesus. It’s Moses in the desert (after fleeing Egypt and the oppressed Jewish population) and God is telling him to go back to Egypt. In fear, Moses says in verse 13, “…Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His name?’ what shall I say to them?

God’s response is about his rescue of the Jewish population in Egypt. It has nothing to do with Christ, and to say that it does is a true stretch of logic.

Prophecies are hardly proof of being God. They speak of a savior. Perhaps even a son; but not a God.

Your verse from Zechariah shows nothing about being a God. He might be a “King” but not a God.

Your connect-the-dot patchwork bit of logic about the bits and pieces from Isaiah meaning that Jesus is Yahweh because he “brought salvation” and was “fair and just” is ludicrous.

Equally as ludicrous is your explanation of Matthew 24:36.

Again, the verse (in another translation for accuracy): “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

And your response:

Jesus only seperates himself from the Father because he was in the form of a servant when he was on Earth and Jesus didn't know then because he was in the form of a servant then.

Where in the bible does it mention that Jesus would “change forms”?

You say Philippians 2 (and you do not mention a verse, simply all of Philippians 2). I am familiar with the chapter. I assume you mean:

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.”

I’ll remind you that the debate topic is “Did Jesus claim to be God?” Philippians wasn’t quoting Christ. The Apostle Paul wrote Philippians as a letter to as an example of Christ to the Church of Phillipi in 62 AD, some 30 years after Jesus was dead. In fact, Paul never even met Jesus. Ever. The incident on the road only describes bright light and a voice. Paul didn’t even know what Jesus looked like.

This means that example is completely useless in this debate.

I say the Burden of Proof sits on your side to prove that Jesus said he is God. There are far more verses saying that the Creator, that is, Yahweh, is a different person. He calls himself the son, having been sent by his Father. It is quite clear.

Debate Round No. 3


You're missing my point on the Old Testament. You need to know what that says to understand what Jesus was saying.

For example, someone who only reads the New Testament will have no clue what Jesus is talking about when he calls himself the Son of Man. They could only know what that means if they read the Book of Daniel. Similarly, to fully understand what Jesus was saying about himself, you need to know what the Old Testament says.

"Exodus 3:14 is a message from God, true, but it isn"t about Jesus."
I never said the verse was about Jesus, I said that God clamed to be the "I am" here. That makes Jesus' claims of being the "I am" (It's all over the Greek for John 8), as him making himself equal with God, since Jesus was a Jew and knew full well who the "I am" was. He knew who the I am was (Yahweh), yet claimed to be the I am, thus he is making himself equal with the I am (Yahweh)

"Your verse from Zechariah shows nothing about being a God. He might be a "King"" but not a God."
The Tanakh says that the King and Savior of Zion (Israel) will come on a Donkey, and that the King and Savior of Zion (Israel) is Yahweh (Isaiah 44:6). Anyone who came across these two verses (Zechariah 9:9 & Isaiah 44:6) would realize that Zechariah 9:9 is talking about God, since God spoke through Isaiah the prophet that he was Israel's King and Savior, and then spoke through Zechariah that the King and Savior of Israel would come to them on a Donkey and a Colt the foal of a Donkey. When Jesus fulfilled this (He self-fulfilled it according to Matthew 21:1-9), he was claiming to be the King and Savior of Zion/Israel (Yahweh), through his actions.

There's no possible way to refute these points: All of your refutations do not erase the points I've brought up. Your interpretation of Matthew 24:36 doesn't match up with what other parts of the Gospels.

Matthew 24:36 - In the context of all of the words of Jesus as recorded in the Gospels, it isn't wrong to say that Jesus was humbling himself at a human level when he said those things, and after he rose from the dead his power as God returned to him. Jesus himself said he came to Earth to serve (Mark 10:45), and while he was on Earth he said he didn't know all things (Matthew 24:36), yet after he rose from the dead he said he had all authority over Heaven and Earth (Matthew 28:18), and in John 21:17 Peter says Jesus knows all things, and Jesus never corrects him.

And even before Jesus died and rose, the disciples said Jesus knew all things, and Jesus never corrected them (John 16:30). Since, while on Earth, Jesus was God and man, you could say that when Jesus implies he doesn't know all things, he is referring to his manhood, and when he implies he does, he is referring to his Godhood.


Thanks Pro,

I understand your logic in bringing up the OT. I went to a bible school for many years. I know the bible well. I am saying that what apparently seems logical to you is utterly ludicrous, especially in context with the debate topic.

You continue to quote the OT, but I’ll remind you that the debate topic is “Did Jesus Claim To Be God In The Bible?” not: “Can you make a case that Jesus claimed to be divine?”

Isaiah might say that the King of Israel would ride on a donkey, but I can just as easily make the point that Isaiah 44:6 (“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God”) is a weak way of linking the donkey rider to being Yahweh. I could just as easily say that those verses are completely different, especially being that they are found in different places. Not everything is intimately linked across the bible.

I could make the case that Jesus wasn’t even the saviour using the prophecies.


Because in Isaiah 11:1-10 it speaks of Jesus: “And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, Who shall stand as a banner to the people; For the Gentiles shall seek Him, And His resting place shall be glorious.”

And also in 2 Samuel 7, quite famously: “When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.”

And yet Jesus was supposedly a virgin birth, making his only connection to the “Root of Jesse”, that is, the line of David, impossible. As in Matthew 1:16 – “And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ.”

Not that any of this matters, as I said before the debate topic is about Jesus personally claiming to be God.

Exodus 3:14

So let’s follow this logic. In Exodus, when God says the words “I am”, this somehow makes Jesus’ words in John 8, that is, the verse that reads “Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Mean that he meant to say ‘I am God’?

I dispute that. Interesting that you brought up the Greek translation because in the Greek Jesus says “eg!3; eimi” literally, ‘I am’, and yet in the Hebrew text of Exodus (I am) the translation is “’eh·yeh”. The difference is that ’eh·yeh is an active verb that can also mean become. It’s an interesting word because it’s used often in phrases like “I am that I am”. That phrase in English seems contradictory but in the Hebrew it translates to “ehyeh ašer ehyeh”. It literally means “I will be what I will be”, or as I said before, I become, in a progressing way.

The Hebrew word is always in relation to God. The Greek eg!3; eimi has no holy value, it’s just the same as if I said, “I am debating you”, or “I am a carpenter”.

You tell me how strong a link that really is. Why wouldn’t Jesus take more care with his words? Why wouldn’t he just say it? Why does it take such a lengthy series of examples and call-backs and references to the OT to try and prove something he never just came out and said? He again never said “before Abraham, I created the world” or “before Abraham, I was God”. It’d be so easy to do but he never just says it.

Your interpretation of Matthew 24:36 doesn't match up with what other parts of the Gospels.

Yes it does. Prove it doesn’t. Jesus always keeps God as a separate person. His Father, as Jesus himself nearly always referred to him. Also, it’s interesting that you choose the words “my interpretation”. It seemed quite clear to me. He said that God knows things he doesn’t know, therefore how could they be one and the same?

All of this hair splitting is distracting from the main point. Did Jesus claim to be God?

I still do not see irrefutable proof that Jesus said he was God.

Debate Round No. 4


Conclusion: You don't know the Bible well, if you did, you would agree with me. You cannot properly refute any of my arguments.

1. Isaiah 11:1-10, 2 Samuel 7, and Matthew 1:16 don't even refute Jesus being the Savior. The first two are saying he is a King (this doesn't contradict being a Savior), and Matthew 1:16 is saying Jacob begat Jospeh, who's wife Mary bore Jesus who is called Christ. This is a bad comparison to my argument, because Isaiah 44:6 undeniably says Yahweh is the King and Savior of Israel, and Zechariah 9:9 undeniably says the King and Savior of Israel will come to Zion on a Donkey.

2. It says, "Ego eimi" in the Greek, and it isn't exactly like the Hebrew ""eh"yeh", because the Greek had to be written in Greek, and they had to be the closest to Hebrew as possible (But it won't be the exact same). The Septuagint says in Exodus 3:14, "O52;^7;P61; ^9;O84;_6;_3; P01; P36;_7;.".

Jesus never said, "before Abraham, I created the world" or "before Abraham, I was God", even though it was easy to say, but he worded it to mean exactly that.

3. I already proved your interpretation was wrong. Jesus said that the greatest would serve, and said he came to serve, which could be interpreted as saying Jesus was humbling himself. After he rose, he claimed to have the authority of God.

You don't see any irrefutable proof because you either don't want to see it, or you are not looking at the whole picture.


Thank you pro, and so ends the debate.
1.This entire section shouldn"t be used for this debate. It again disregards the fact that the debate is about whether Jesus himself claimed to be God. OT sections are not the word of Jesus himself, and should not be considered.

2.Why would the translation not use a Greek word like aeon, a word separate by meaning eternal? The problem persists. Why would Jesus not just simply say it? Why does God know things Jesus doesn"t? How can you honestly prove that they are the same if they think and act differently?

3.You refuse again to find proof that Jesus himself claimed to be God.
Debate Round No. 5
32 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Esiar 1 year ago
He didn't say, "I am God." but he said, "I am."
Posted by MaineMarine 1 year ago
Old testament... Thous shalt have no other God before me...

Jesus said "No man comes to the father except through me"

Was Jesus lying, blaspheming, or claiming to be God?

Jesus never told anybody to stand up that knelled down to him in worship

Did Jesus come out and say.... I AM GOD... To me he did!...

to some of you - remember - - - - - To a blind man, a wink is as good as a nod! Do not be blind
Posted by Esiar 1 year ago
Why do Non-Trinitarians and Muslims always use these "The Father is greater than I" type verses to prove their point? It is absolutely foolish. They don't even address the points I made.
Posted by SirStevereno 1 year ago
Esiar--->" It seems that the leaders of the day who were standing there (and not 2000 years afterer) understood him and wanted to kill him for CLAIMING TO BE GOD."<--

Strange. I would suppose then, that you believe the other pharisaical lies too...namely...that Jesus was a glutton and a drunkard? Quite strange in deed.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
Posted by Esiar 1 year ago
"but then you quickly went bankrupt in showing even one instance of such a claim!"
I showed obvious proof. It's only you that wilfully decides to be blind of what I put right in your face.
Posted by SirStevereno 1 year ago
64BitHuman...gave you a good thrashing pro. He obviously knows his Bible...better than you do yours. Why? Because you started this debate with a boisterous claim..."Did Jesus Claim to be the God of the Bible" but then you quickly went bankrupt in showing even one instance of such a claim! Yet, you seem to think, you did. If it wasn't such a shame, it'd be funny. ~shakes my head~

Now for your comments to me...

It seems that the leaders of the day who were standing there (and not 2000 years afterer) understood him and wanted to kill him for CLAIMING TO BE GOD.

1. Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.<

Reply---> So being one with God, means he is God? Hmm. You need to keep reading.

John 17: 20 "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one" (NIV)

So now, I guess in your book...we are all Gods.

Pro--->Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.<

Reply---> Again, why do you stop reading? The very next paragraph explains just a few verses down sir. John10:36...."Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, "I am God"s Son"?"... .

There you go, right from the Christ's own mouth..."I said, 'I am God's Son..."

Even so, if by some bizarre fraction of a chance, your understanding is correct and it most certainly is not, you would still be short 1 godhead of the Trinity. Why would he claim only 2 make 1...when you need 3? Give Jesus some credit. He was no dummy.
Posted by MaineMarine 1 year ago
It seems that the leaders of the day who were standing there (and not 2000 years afterer) understood him and wanted to kill him for CLAIMING TO BE GOD.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Posted by SirStevereno 1 year ago
Esiar---> I did address that point: That you don't have to say, "I am God." straight up to give the same meaning as "I am God.".<

Steve-->Now see Estar, your reply here begs a question. Namely, that for what fluent and insightful teacher Jesus actually was, why did he hold back from saying, "I am God."? Certainly, if such a statement were true, then the Greek Scriptures (New Testament) would be laced with such a statement just as the Hebrew Scriptures are concerning the Hebrew God Yahweh or in english "Jehovah".

Thus saith God, Jehovah, he that created the heavens and stretched them out, he that spread forth the earth and its productions, he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Isaiah 42:6 I, Jehovah, have called thee in righteousness, and will take hold of thy hand; and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the nations,

7 to open the blind eyes, to bring forth the prisoner from the prison, them that sit in darkness out of the house of restraint.

8 I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. (unquote)

Sadly, even though scriptures clearly show that Christ sits at God's right hand, Trinitarians have gone out of there way to remove and omit God's name...from most of their translations. Yet, there is proof that even Jesus Christ used his Father's divine name. "And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them."-John 17:26 (King James Version)

Esair---> I suggest you look at these verses:
Genesis 1:26-27<

Genesis 1:26 "Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, "

What about it? It is God speaking to his Son. "I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep," Proverbs 8:2

Posted by Esiar 1 year ago
I did address that point: That you don't have to say, "I am God." straight up to give the same meaning as "I am God.".

I suggest you look at these verses:
Genesis 1:26-27
John 1:1
Matthew 28:19
Acts 5:3-5
Philippians 2:6
John 14:18 & 14:26
Revelation 22:13 & Isaiah 44:6

The issue you suffer with is the same thing Muslims suffer with (Assuming you aren't a Muslim): They think a claim of divity can only count if Jesus said in these exact words, "I am God. Worship me.", yet there are areas where Jesus was clearly saying he is God and areas where he was clearly worshipped.

Jesus is eternal, because no one can possibly come before him, and no one can possibly come after him (Revelation 22:13), not even Yahweh, since no one can possibly come before him, and no one can possibly come after him as well (Isaiah 44:6).
Posted by SirStevereno 1 year ago
Simply said Eslar, you have avoided 64bihuman's main point. Trinitarian's prime belief is that Jesus was God. and yet Jesus NEVER taught such a thing. you'd think with such an important doctrine, you'd find at least a simple "I am God" somewhere. Yet Christ's ministry is absolutely vacant of such a teaching. Why? Because the Trinity Doctrine is complete nonsense! That is why. No one spoke of such a fantasy until the forth century...hundreds of years after the original Christians had died off. I suggest you do unbiased and independent research on the factual history of the trinities. Perhaps you will find out just how pagan they are. I hope so, for your sake.
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