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Con (against)
The Contender
Pro (for)

Did Jesus claim to be God/Diety ?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/3/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 month ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 177 times Debate No: 95185
Debate Rounds (5)
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Okay now to make it clear I do believe that Jesus Christ didn't claim to be a God or claim Divinity acording to the Gospels; Con has to argue that the Gsoepls approve that Jesus is God. First round is for acceptance. Goodluck


Good day, Con. I will be contending that according to the Gospels, Jesus claimed very clearly to be God. Good luck, and may the best argument win.
Debate Round No. 1


Although I was expecting a Christian to accept tjis debate, thanks for accepting. Now let's get straight into the point:

1-In Mark 10:18 "Why do you call me good ? Only GOD is good." Now this verse is a clear statement by Jesus that He isn't God. He says that he's isn't good cause only God is goodm how then is he God ?

2-In Mathew while dying on thr cross, Jesus clearly said "My God why have you forsaken me ?" So let's say he's calling God the Father and that they're separate beings, He stills calls the Father MY GOD; so the God the Son calls The Father "MY God" so the Son worships the Father ? How can he be the a God ?

3-Now to John 16:13 "He doesn't speak of his own authority but of what he hears" then He takes the command from God the Father and he has no authority of himself; so Jesus(who is considered God) only takes his authority from the Father, so does God wait for authority from anyone else if he was really God?

4- Mark 16:19 "He sat at the right hand of God" no need for clarification. The verse itself is suffeinct :D

5-Now to the well-known verse used to prove that Jesus is God "For God so loved the world that He sent His Only Begotten Son" Here I'll use the argument of Arius (the leader of anti-trinity concept) "If God the Father begat the Son, then there was a period of time that God the Father existed before the Son" So that denies the first verse of John "In the beginning was tbe word and the word was with God and the word was God" Well, in Hebrew the word "Wisdom" and the word "Word" are synonyms( having the same meaning) Actually the word translated as Word is the same one inProverbs translated as wisdom.

6- The claim that he was Called the "Son of God" doesn't give any proof since we see many figures in the Bible called "Son of God" such as Adam, Israel...etc Even Jesus himself is quoted to tell his disciples "you will be the sons of the most High"

And so God chose HIS SERVANT and sent him first to you to bless you by Making everyone of you turn from his wicked ways" So Jesus(the God) is the SERVANT of God. so how then can He be the servant ?

8- Even St Paul says clearly 1.Cor.8.6
There is ONLY one GOD, THE FATHER, who is the CREATOR OF ALL THINGS and for whom we live and there is only one LORD, Jesus CHRIST through whom all things were created and through whom we live." Paul claims by himself that there's only One God which is the Father.

9-Pepole might use "I and the Father are One" to claim that Jesus is God, yet it isn't enough; since it holds the meaning of being One in Purpose(ie Have the aim of guiding mankind etc..) Even the LDS church holds this belief too.

10- "My Father is greater than I" So God thr Father is greater than the son, how then they're One according to Trinity concept ?

11Jn 14:20
"you will know that I am in my father and that you are in me just as I am in you. So hereJesus embassies that He is in God since he follows his commands and so the disciples are in Jesus as they follow hos teachings, or if the verse is to be understood as Christians do, The Desciples should be a part of the Trinity since they were "in" Jesus as Jesus was "in the Father"

12- Jesus prostrated to God, prayed to Him in several verses. How can he be a God while he worships another God?

13- On tbe Cross, Jesus says "Gid forgive them for they know not" thus he Asks God to forgive them. If he was God he could forgive him directly himself without asking the Father.

Goodluck :D


Thank you for your opening argument, Con. First off, I must point out that not all of your points are related to the debate's topic. Quotes from the Apostle Paul and theological arguments against the Trinity have no bearing on whether or not Jesus himself claimed to be divine. If the topic was "Is Jesus God?", then those would suffice, but since we are only debating over what Jesus said according to the Gospels, I will ignore points 4, 5, 7, and 8. These are well-worded, and I agree with some of them, but they have nothing to do with Jesus' own views, and are therefore off-topic.

In the Gospels, Jesus is a subtle and prudent character, never explicitly stating "I am God" but hinting at it many times. To understand his language, one must keep in mind that he lived among a people that already had an ancient, well-established, monotheistic religious tradition. Whenever Jesus makes reference to "God" or "The Father" as separate from himself, he is speaking of the God already worshiped by the Jews: Yahweh. As I will explain later, Jesus saw himself and the Father as separate aspects of the same God, which would be adapted into the Trinitarian doctrine.

Jesus speaks in terms that people around him will understand; if he had come right out from the beginning and claimed to be a deity, they would have stoned him to death, since that is blasphemy in the Jewish tradition. When Jesus asks "Why do you call me good? Only God is good." in Mark 10:18, notice that he never says he isn't God. Jesus travelled the region of Judea to spread his teachings, not to proclaim himself as the Supreme Being. In that particular quote, he was speaking to a rich man who had never even heard it suggested that Jesus was the son of God. He was testing the man's knowledge and perhaps even hinting at his own God complex. Naturally, this doesn't add to my point, but is only meant to disprove yours.

Christians believe that Jesus prayed in order to teach his disciples how to, and to give an example for people to follow. [4] Second, since the Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD, all major branches of Christianity agree that Jesus had a mixture of human and divine natures; your arguments seem to assume that Christians call him divine and nothing else, which is in fact a heresy. Since he is a human and a Jew, it's perfectly natural for him to have faith of his own, despite being under the delusion that he is God.

In John 14:20, there is nothing indicating that Jesus suggested the same relation between he and his disciples as with him and his supposed Father. John Gill, a renowned theologian and Biblical scholar, wrote in a commentary on this verse that the disciples were "in union with [Jesus] as the branches in the vine, and as the members are in the head" and Jesus was "formed in [the disciples'] hearts, living in them, dwelling in them, as in his temples, and filling them with grace and glory." [1] All three relationships are different, and Jesus doesn't try to compare them.

While the doctrine of the Trinity likely wasn't invented until decades after Jesus' death, nothing in the New Testament contradicts it. Jesus believed that he and the Father were separate beings, different manifestation of one God, just as Trinitarians believe (while throwing in a Holy Ghost for good measure). The different members of the Trinity are allowed to communicate with each other in Christian theology, so when Jesus speaks to his supposed Father on the cross or elsewhere, he is still sure of his own divinity. Jesus has already forgiven the Roman soldiers and Pharisees when he pleads "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do,". The Father, being the God of the Old Testament, is cruel, brutal, angry, vengeful, and totally unforgiving. Jesus, believing he is a more merciful incarnation of the Almighty, hopelessly pleads with the Father to forgive people that he's sure are already destined for Hell.

God, by definition, would be invincible and impossible to harm. Therefore, to make the sacrifice with which we are all familiar, Jesus believed he had descended from the heavens and taken on a weak, vulnerable mortal form. This is explained in Hebrews 2:9, which says that Jesus "for a little while was made lower than the angels" [3] - greater than a man, but for a set amount of time, a mere servant of God. Hence "My Father is greater than I": at that moment, Jesus claims, God the Father is more powerful than he. Also, looking at John 12:49 (which you mistakenly called 16:13), Jesus again acknowledges the Father as the higher being in that moment, not for all eternity.

Finally, you mentioned the quote of "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?". Keep in mind that Jesus was speaking in Hebrew: "Eli Eli lama sabachthani?" is literally what he said. He was actually quoting the Old Testament - Psalms 22:1, to be exact. Supposedly, King David wrote that at a particularly dark time in his life. The Christian concept of "The Father" and the Jewish concept of "God" are exactly the same thing, so Jesus is both using the rhetoric of the times and making a pop-cultural reference. He is not suggesting that he worships the Father, but communicating his anguish, and as I have stated, Christians (including Christ) believe that the Trinity can converse amongst each other.

It is true that other figures in the Bible are called "sons of God", as far back as Genesis, but Jesus gives himself other qualities that only a god could possess. He claims omniscience by supposedly foretelling the future ("Before the cock crows, you will deny me three times" -Matthew 26:34 and "We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified." -Matthew 20:18-19). Though these quotes were probably fabricated years after Jesus' death, we're speaking within the context of the Bible, and no one else in the Old or New Testaments possessed the power of future vision except God alone. In Matthew 28:20, Jesus claims omnipresence by saying to the apostles "I am with you always, to the end of the age." He says he will be with them not only to the end of their lives, but to the end of the age - suggesting the eternity of godhood.

The Mormons probably aren't interpreting John 10:30 correctly. Directly after Jesus says he and the Father are one, the Jews try to stone him for heresy. If he really meant that the Father and he were one in purpose, the Jews would have admired him, but instead they attempted to execute him on the spot. "It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you," they say, "but for blasphemy, because you, though only a human being, are making yourself God." You might argue that the Jews misconstrued Jesus' meaning, but Jesus himself does not deny their accusation.

Probably the best evidence in the Gospels that Jesus thought he was divine is contained in John 8:58. When other Jews are about to stone him (yet again), Jesus declares "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." Again, Jesus is quoting the Hebrew Bible, specifically Exodus 3:14, where God says to Moses "I am that I am". Not only is he quoting God in reference to himself, but he claims that he was around since before Abraham, which stretches into impossibly ancient times. Clearly, Jesus believed that he was immortal, and in Jewish theology, nothing is immortal save God himself.

Thank you, Con, and I will now allow you to present your counter-argument.

2. The Gospels According to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John
3. The Epistle to the Hebrews
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Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Phenenas 1 month ago
This is pretty much how my last 5 debates have ended. No winner, no loser, just stuck in debate limbo for all eternity thanks to whatever incompetent jerk-offs are running this site.
Posted by Phenenas 1 month ago
Con has 8 minutes to post an argument. If this site glitches out AGAIN...
Posted by AliHussein 1 month ago
What about the verses I stated ? Jesus says "MY God" "Why do you call me good ? Only God is good" and "My Father os greater than I" Are these contradictions ? What about Cor. when St Paul claims that "There's only One God the Father" Again if you read my argument "I and thr Father are One" doesn't mean he's the father; maybe as LDS church beleives, He meant they're one in their purpose. Also if Jesus literally meant He and the Father are One isn't that against Trinity concept which states that they're different ? If Jesus really meant He and the Father are typically One then how then he says "My Father is greater than I?" If they're typically One, why dod he pray to the Father? I believe it isn't a literal meaning.
Posted by Confucius1 1 month ago
Jesus did not outright say "I am God" but he did proclaim to be God. John 10:30 "I and the Father are one" The Jews were mad at him for saying this and they were going to stone him for claiming a deity. Thomas the Disciple says "My Lord and my God" if he was wrong Jesus would have correct him. Jesus did not correct him. Similar an angel told John to worship God. Revelation 19:10. Several times in the scripture Jesus received worship Matthew 2:11, 14:33, 28:9, 17 Luke 24:52 John 9:38. If they were wrong Jesus would have told them not to worship him.

The most important point is if Jesus was not God in the flesh, he could not have paid the eternal price for our sin. John 2:2 A created being if Jesus was could not pay the ultimate price for our sins. This is something only God could do and for him we are grateful. 2 Corinthians 5:21.
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