Did Jesus claim to be God?
Debate Rounds (3)
So My opponent seems to think Jesus is God.
Jesus Was God?
Absolutely not. This is one of the most ridiculous statement that Christians make.
God is the controller and creator of millions of Universes. So does it make any sense for God to appear on this tiny insignificant planet called Earth. Millions of years after creating it so that he can be tormented, harassed, and crucified?
The definition of God is that one who is the greatest, one who has know one equal to him, one who has know one above him. Such a person is called God. If Jesus and his father are equal then neither of them can be God.
2. The miracles Jesus performed are a very strong indication of His divinity (because no mere human can work actual miracles by his own power). Jesus referred to the miracles in John 10:24-39 as proof that he was telling the truth. This passage is Christ's own response to the unbelieving Jews' charge of blasphemy (dishonoring God by claiming to be God). Incidentally, this section also includes a beautiful promise that once you are saved/born again/become a Christian, you can never lose your salvation. Verses 28-29 say we will "never perish; no one can snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one." (Here is another strong statement that He is God.) We can have the assurance of eternal security because we didn't earn salvation in the first place; it is a free gift (Ephesians 2:8,9).
3. During Christ's trial, the chief priests asked Him point blank, "Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." And He said,
" "I am." (Mark 14:60-62)
" "Yes, it is as you say." (Matt. 26: 63-65)
" "You are right in saying I am." (Luke 22:67-70)
These are all ways of saying the same thing, written by different authors.
In John's gospel, he recounts Jesus' interview with Pontius Pilate (John 18:33-37). Pilate wanted to know if He were the King of the Jews. Jesus then talked about how His kingdom was not of this world. Pilate said, "You are a king, then!" Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king..." The truth is, he is King of the whole universe.
4. Jesus says in John 10:11-18 that he is the Good Shepherd. When you read this passage along with Ezekiel 34:1-16, you can see that Jesus was identifying Himself with God, who pronounced Himself Shepherd over Israel. The Jewish people, being an agrarian and shepherding society, knew and dearly loved this section of the Old Testament because God was using a metaphor they lived every day. So when Jesus said, "I am the Good Shepherd," and that whole John passage so clearly parallels the Ezekiel passage, there was no doubt that He was claiming to be God.
5. John 4:25-26. This is where the Samaritan woman, whom Jesus went to meet at the well, gets into a discussion of "living water" with Jesus. He pinpoints her sinful lifestyle (knowledge He would not have had as a mere human passerby), then He admits that He is the long-awaited Messiah: "I who speak to you am He."
6. John 5:1-18. Jesus heals a lame man on the Sabbath, which the unbelieving Jews gave Him a hard time about. His answer was, "My Father is always at His work to this very day, and I too am working." It was a well-known Jewish line of thought that, although God rested on the seventh day after Creation week, He continued to "work" in being loving, compassionate, and just, as well as keeping the earth producing, keeping the sun moving, etc. In other words, although the creating had stopped, the maintenance went on--even on the Sabbath, and that was the only "work" allowed on that day. So Jesus is putting Himself on the same level as his Father in working on the Sabbath. And by calling God "My Father" (instead of "Our Father"), He was claiming an intimate relationship with God that far exceeded anyone else's. So in these two ways, He was making Himself equal with God.
7. John 16:28. "I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father." What Christ is saying here is that he existed along with the Father before being born. He "entered the world" by wrapping Himself in human flesh and being born as a baby. He grew up, fulfilled His mission/ministry, was crucified and raised from the dead (all part of the "mission") and then left the world to go back to the Father in heaven, where He is now seated at the right hand of God (the place of honor). He is the only person who ever existed before conception. That Christ was in a "pre-incarnate state" means that He is God.
8. (This is many people's favorite argument for the deity of Christ, including the author's.)
First, turn to Exodus 3, where Moses encounters God in the burning bush. God tells Moses that he is the one He has chosen to lead the Israelites out of Egypt. Moses says to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me 'What is His name?' Then what shall I tell them?" God replies to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'" God has said that His own name, His personal name, is "I AM."
a) Turn to John 8:56-58. Jesus is talking to the unbelieving Jews. "Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing My day; he saw it and was glad." "You are not yet 50 years old," they said to Him, "and you have seen Abraham?" "I tell you the truth," Jesus announced, "before Abraham was, I AM!" Jesus was the great I AM from before the beginning of time; He existed before Abraham ever was. He is claiming here to be the I AM of the Old Testament. Verse 59 says the Jews picked up stones to stone Him, but the Lord Jesus slipped away. The reason they wanted to stone Him was because stoning was the death penalty for blasphemy. He was claiming to be Yahweh--Jehovah--Almighty God--I AM. (Of course, it wasn't blasphemy when Christ claimed to be who He truly was!)
b) John 8:24. "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I AM, you will indeed die in your sins." In your Bible, it may read "if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be...." The extra words are supplied by the editors; they're not in the original text. If you're familiar with Exodus 3 you don't need the extra words for it to make grammatical sense. The Lord Jesus is again claiming to be God.
c) John 18:4. In the Garden of Gethsemane, Judas and some priests and soldiers are about to take Jesus prisoner. "Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to Him, went out and asked them, 'Who is it that you want?' 'Jesus of Nazareth,' they replied. 'I AM,' Jesus said. When He said, 'I AM,' they drew back and fell to the ground." (Again, in your Bible the editors may have supplied "I am [he]" to make it grammatically correct. The Greek just says, "I AM.")
The force of Jesus' claim to be Yahweh (I AM) was so powerful that it literally knocked the arresting officers and the Jewish priests off their feet!
Those who base their faith on miracles confuse the supernatural with the Supreme
1. Our knowledge of naturalism may be incomplete : Nature is endlessly complex and our understanding of it is progressing. What can"t be explained naturalistically at present may be explainable naturalistically in the future. For example, survival of life within fire was considered impossible in the past, but pointers towards its possibility have come up with the discovery of thermophilic creatures. So too might be the case with the claimed capacity to miraculously produce ashes or fire.
2. Our conception of naturalism itself may be incomplete : There may be phenomena that may be material and naturalistic but beyond our present conception of naturalism. For example, yogis have mystic powers for mind-reading that come from manipulating the mental or subtle material level of reality " a level that is beyond today"s mainstream naturalism which assumes the gross material level to be the only reality.
I'm asserting this because Jesus wasn't the only who performed miracles. There are other men in history. Eg: Lord Buddha (http://www.pbs.org...), Shirdi Sai Baba (http://en.wikipedia.org...), Mahavtar Babaji (http://www.babaji.org.uk...), etc and many more.
and the followers of these great men also accept and worship them as God.
The Bible is based on Christians Verses Non-Christians
"Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God." (Exodus 34.14)
Man can be jealous because man is not in control, but how can God be jealous?
"Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed." (Exodus 22:20)
(Threatening and violent verse)
Why would a great person like jesus be like this?
Well this shows the Bible , which was supposed to be The Word of God has been adulterated by selfish men.
I don't deny the fact that Jesus is the Messiah. But Messiah ain't God but an expansion of God. Thus Jesus is a demi-God but not the Supreme God. Also viewing Jesus as the only viewly Messiah would be too narrow-minded view.
Your 7th point proves the fact Jesus is an incarnation/expansion of Supreme God:
John 16:28. "I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father." What Christ is saying here is that he existed along with the Father before being born. He "entered the world" by wrapping Himself in human flesh and being born as a baby. He grew up, fulfilled His mission/ministry, was crucified and raised from the dead (all part of the "mission") and then left the world to go back to the Father in heaven, where He is now seated at the right hand of God (the place of honor). He is the only person who ever existed before conception. That Christ was in a "pre-incarnate state" means that He is God.
But you are partly wrong saying 'he is the only person who ever existed before conception'. Since you only know Jesus, concluding straight away would again be narrow-minded.
Also, one more flaw(adulterated by selfish apostles) i'd love to point out from the Bible
Jesus was the only son of God?
Even the pigs have many children, so why should the almighty God only have one Son?
God is unlimited, he has created millions of Universes. So when it comes to creating sons, he can only create one son?
The fact is All beings on earth (all races and all species of life including animals and plants) are children of God.
And to 8)a) We're all birthless and deathless as we are spirit souls not just Jesus. We all are eternal species or else how would we continue our life in heaven/hell?
"Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be."
8)b) yes if they don't accept Jesus' words they were to die in Sins for the Supreme God sent him for delivering them.
God's relationship with everyone is basically as Mother as he is the creator But different people view God with different feelings
Some view him as Father, Some as Master, and Some as Friend etc. (This is indicated by different religions of the world)
Jesus viewed God as his father.
"The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work." ( John 14.10)
Jesus said "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone" (Mark 10.8)
Jesus said "I go unto my father: for my father is greater than I" (John 14.28)
"I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself" (John 5.19)
TO burst your bubble further If Jesus were God why are there so many other religions? If he actually cared for people he should have come to other countries too.
Because God sends his beloved Children , Friend, Servant etc to deliver his children who are materially contaminated.
To Supplement their faith Christians regard Jesus Christ as God but actually Jesus ain't Supreme God.
Templar81 forfeited this round.
"The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work." ( John 14.10)
This verse clearly proves that Jesus was empowered by God and sent to deliver the sinners of Jerusalem.
Christians say Jesus is the only way?
How many of these so-called followers of Jesus, actually follow his instructions?
Jesus said "thy shall not kill" but they kill by millions everyday (cows, pigs, chickens..)
Jesus said "Love God with your heart" but they don"t even know God
Jesus said "Love thy neighbor" but they go round cursing the neighbors (non-Christians) a life of hell if they don"t become one of them
Jesus said "live without sin" but they live in sin and expect Jesus to bail them out
Instead of giving love to Jesus. They give him their sins so Jesus can suffer eternally
These Christians who claim to follow Jesus, actually completely ignore the real teachings of Jesus
Conclusion: Jesus Christ was truthful thus he never made direct claim that he is God. He always represented him as the SON OF GOD. But Christians interpolated his verses and made him God so that they can escape their sins.
Jesus taught them to live Sinless and they want to give their sins to Jesus to make him suffer eternally ...Such is the status of Christianity.
In Hinduism, we believe in giving love to a Guru and love to God, not pain. This is real religion, to give love to Guru and God, not our sins. The Vedic scriptures teach that the purpose of life is to live without sin and give love to the Guru and God.
Now its your turn VOTERs.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Sagey 2 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro's sources only stated he was son along with God making Christianity Polytheistic forfeiting lost point
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