Did L or Light win?
Debate Rounds (4)
I will allow my opponent to choose a side in round one and rounds two-four are for attempting to affirm your case and refute mine. For the purposes of this debate no semantics will be allowed unless it pertains to an aspect of the debate that is in occordance to the debate's intent.
In this debate both sides carry burden of proof and Deathnote is defined as such: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com...
I thank my opponent for accepting and I look forward to a good debate.
I take the side that Light Yagami literally and metaphorically defeated L Lawliet, Nathan "Near" River, and Mihael "Mello" Keehl.
1) Light Kills L - As seen in episode 25, "Silence", Light had murdered L through Rem by means of the Death Note. Therefore, literally speaking, Light did in fact defeat L, and absolutely, without a doubt, had defeated L in the physical sense. Now, L's ideals pass on to his successors, which I will argue next.
2) L's goal was to arrest and incarcerate the killer known as Kira - L never accomplishes this goal. He dies before Light was discovered as Kira, and even then, L's spiritual successors did not capture him. Although Light dies at the conclusion of Death Note, and is conclusively revealed as Kira, he is never captured or tried.
3) L's stance on the morality of killing dangerous criminals is never truly affirmed - L's goal was to capture and imprison Light for his crimes. Light dies before ever being captured or tried, so many things could have varied even if he had been captured. Even as a criminal, Light would have a right to a fair trial. With the conversion of the world under the judgement of Kira, many people came to follow the teaching of Kira, that dangerous criminals should be put to death. Considering the conversion of the masses, one could assume that if a trial had taken place, Light would have the ability sway the jury in his favor. If this had happened, L's goal would still not have been accomplished.
4) Light makes a large impact on society - Light states in the series finale that during the 6 years of Kira existence, the world had taken a conversion for the better. "... wars have ceased, violent crimes had almost died out..." (as said by Light with subtitles done by Ruberia). Considering the major impact of his existence, than it is possible to say his existence saved the world from what may have been large wars on destructive scales. There are uncountable number of lives that may have been saved considering the drop in violent crimes.
5) Light's ideals are made everlasting through his followers - Even though the world turns back to it's ways of evil and destruction with Light now gone, it is seen in an epilogue that Light has many follower's left who believe in his teachings. This group of followers continually pray for his return. By converting these people, Light succeeded in becoming a "god" in their eyes.
In conclusion, Light had defeated L on the basis that L's ideals of his victory had never even gotten close in coming to fruition.
I will attempt to affirm the resolution that in the Death Note anime it was the team of L , Near (N) , and Mello (M)  that better accomplished their goals.
N, with the help of L's notes and M beat Light in their battle of wits .
Through meticulous planning and through inadvertent aid by Mello is able to objectively prove that Light Yagami is Kira to all of the members of their respective poliece task forces. He does this through Teru Mikami by knowing that Teru would attempt to use the fake Death Note to kill everyone but Light, whom he believed to be God. When noone dies N takes Teru's notebook and reads the names that are written; Light's was the only noe not there. Light's team promptly turn on him and he is shot while attempting to write a name on his slip of the Death Note, escapes the warehouse, and dies of a heart attack caused by Ryuk. These events after N's reveal of the names suggests that Light no longer cares that the authorities know that he is Kira. Simce the authorities have this knowledge they would have been obligated to pursue him until his demise or capture. Therefore the team of L/N/M were the cause of Light's demise.
N kept Light from accomplishing his goal of creating a perfect world.
Light's goal from the beginning was to create a world that is devoid of all evil . This did not happen because as the series progressed Light began to commit acts that were truly evil. The first example of this was when he used the Death Note to kill Raye Penber  to avoid getting caught. Light had no reasons to kill Raye that were not selfish in nature as Raye was in fact working to preserve the very justice that Light claimed to stand for.
Another way this goal did not come to a warped sense of fruition is because N exposed Light as Kira and he was killed shortly after.
At the end of the anime Light broke.
Throughout the whole entire anime the grouping of Light/L/N/M were calm, cool, and collected. That is until the very last episode. After N exposes Light he reverts from a man who never loses his cool and bases his actions on logic to what amounts to a hysterical lunatic trying desperately to hang on to something that he knows is lost. This was an unfortunate turn for the series as a whole.
This is not the case when you look at L/N/M. These three always remained rational beings even when faced with hardships in their investigations.
I look forward to my opponent's rebuttals and hope we both provide well thought-out defenses.
(Unfortunately the top three links do not work correctly due to underscores in the links. For L and Mello's pages go to the disambiguation to find that correct article and Near's link is around the middle of the provided page.)
To begin, I will first rebut my opponent's contentions one at a time.
"N, with the help of L's notes and M beat Light in their battle of wits,"
It is true that Light is revealed as Kira, but not by his own fault. Only through Mikami Teru was he revealed. Through no fault of his did N/M/L discover his alternate identity. Just as well, being discovered as Kira does not constitute his defeat, Light admits himself that he would eventually reveal himself so that he may rule justly. Unless Light was captured and tried, to truly determine if his acts were breaking a crime, would he be sentenced and then officially lost.
"N kept Light from accomplishing his goal of creating a perfect world."
Though Light had wanted to create a world devoid of evil, that in itself would have been an impossibility, which Light was already aware of. Crime would never absolutely be eliminated, which is exactly why Light would rule and use the Death Note to eliminate all those that caused crime, which would be continually constant but still minimal due to fear of punishment. Raye Penber's death was justifiable. Light had no idea how long the FBI would be tracking him, and had no idea how much they had discovered. Raye Penber's existence was a constant danger to Light being discovered, making it imperative to eliminate Raye, as well as the other FBI agents. Though Light died at the end, his message and goals continue to live in his devoted followers, all of which are dedicated to his goal.
"At the end of the anime Light broke."
First of all, you claimed that "Throughout the whole entire anime the grouping of Light/L/N/M were calm, cool, and collected." L was not cool and collected when he had learned of the alleged death gods "existence". N was angry when Lights followers were at the front steps to his office. Mello had a huge made a huge scene when confronting Near because of his inferiority . Though Light was a tad emotional during his discovery, he is a human being with emotions. I'm sure any person in the same position with the same feeling would have acted in the same manner. To say that Light lost because of his behavior is exaggerating the situation. In that position, he could have done only so many things, and to try and persuade them to think differently with his speech was one of those ways. Asking Ryuk to eliminate his enemies was also an attempt to do all he could to get an advantage in the situation he was in.
I now extend all my arguments to why Light did win from my previous post, and look forward to hearing your rebuttal. Thanks again for the awesome debate.
It was Light's fault that he was revealed. He was revealed because N was able to manipulate Mikami more effectively. Light was unable to foresee that N would duplicate an entire Death Note which was his downfall. Your rebuttal would be valid if Mikami had any semblance of free will when it came to obeying orders from Light. In their game he was just a pawn. This contention was not about their goals, it was about the psychological game that Light was playing with L/N/M. N won by outsmarting Light.
Here my opponent claims that Raye Penber's death was justifiable. I'm certain that to Light it was. The point is that from an objective view it was not justifiable. He was working as a FBI agent in order to subdue the most prolific serial killer in history. Using evil and selfish means to accomplish goals can never truly lead to peace.
MY original claim under this contention may have been an exaggeration but your defense that Light is only human also applies to L/N/M. The difference is that when Light lost control he went off the proverbial deep end. and caused the circumstances that led to his death. Also, when you say that, "any person in the same position..." you are appealing to the majority which is a logical fallacy.
This point is irrelevant because my side of the debate involves all three characters, not just L. One could even argue that L's death led to the downfall of Light simply because it was L's successors that exposed Light.
As the antagonists in Death Note it is my team's first priority to stop Light from accomplishing his goals. They did this. It may have been personally important for them to bring Kira to justice but the end result of their goal was accomplished when Light died.
This point mainly deals with the possibilities had Light been captured. All of this is mere speculation as there are too many unknowns such as who would be on a hypothetical jury, whether or not the party that captures him gives him a fair trial, and the likelihood that Ryuk would allow Light to live t said hypothetical trial.
This contention is really just restating facts as they are presented in the anime. Though saying that Light saved the world from large-scale wars is a completely unfounded claim and that the indirect consequences of actions cannot be predicted with any significant accuracy.
This point really has nothing to do with our debate because our debate is not about Light's affect on the world.
I thank my opponent for his well thought out responses. I also would ask that he drop his arguments 4 and 5, they are good points for a debate about Light's impact on the world, but not for our debate.
Keyser_Soze forfeited this round.
Keyser_Soze forfeited this round.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Korashk 7 years ago
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