The Instigator
BrettBoelkens
Con (against)
The Contender
neil23
Pro (for)

Did Noah's Flood Happen as Depicted in Genesis

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/26/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 122 times Debate No: 103303
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BrettBoelkens

Con

I am arguing that the Noachian Flood Deluge as depicted in the biblical book of Genesis is a fable, with no basis in reality. My opponent is required to be a creationist who believes in a worldwide flood. He can not however, just ignore problems and say that God did it. He can't used faith as a justification for belief, and must prove it with evidence. Of course, positive claims require positive evidence, and that is what I expect.

Meteorology
Leonard G. Soroka and Charles L. Nelson in their Physical Constraints on the Noachian Deluge examined four separate methods for flood waters, being rain, hypothermic springs, and two types of cometary impact. None of them work, due to excessive energy and heat.

Rainfall Model
The amount of water presently in the oceans is about 1.37 billion cubic kilometers, and to cover all the high mountains of the earth would require 4.4 billion additional cubic kilometers or approximately 3 times the amount of water present in the oceans. Not only would this make the air unbreathable due to it being 99.9% water vapor, atmospheric pressure being 840 times what it is now. Then take the latent heat of vaporization, when a kilogram of water vapor condenses and 2.26 million joules of energy are released. This is what powers thunderstorms and hurricanes. Condensing 4.4 billion cubic kilometers would create 10^26 joules of energy, making the planet 3500 degrees C, temporarily making the planet the second hottest object in the solar system. The oceans would boil and the ark would burn.

Hydro Plate Model
How about the hydro plate model, where all the water required to flood the Earth was put in the Earth's crust. Ignoring how the water got in that impossible position, what happens when you have highly pressurized water released. Assuming the water would be as hot as the water surrounding it, from the geothermic gradient the average temperature of the water would be approximately 1600 degrees C, steam cooking the planet before boiling everything alive.

Cometary Strikes
How about a comet, large enough to contain the necessary water (Calculation 3). A spherical comet composed of this mass of frozen water would have a diameter of approximately 2100 km, or about twice as large as Texas, or more than the radius of the moon. A comet of this size would release the energy equivalent of 12 trillion megatons of TNT. One of the largest nuclear bombs, the Tsar Bomba, only could produce a maximum of 25 megatons.

How about a cometary hailstorm, causing mass tsunamis for 40 days and 40 nights? Though this would reduce the impact damage, it wouldn't reduce the potential energy of the comet. This would make the earth 6800 degrees C, temporarily making the earth's atmosphere hotter than the surface of the sun.
http://nagt-jge.org......

Archaeology
Young Earth creationists typically have used the James Usher model for calculating the age of the Earth. This was done by adding up all the chronologies, and days of creation. This is where they often get the 6000-10,000 year old Earth. But they typically disagree on the date of the flood at 1493 BC, since this is the approximate time of Moses. AiG puts the flood at 2370 BC, though some other creation ministries disagree. But either way, at this date, the Pyramid of Giza would have been built, flooded, and still be around just fine. This also means that the Egyptian's started their 6th dynasty while at the same time being drowned by billions of cubic kilometers of water. This also ignores the rise of the copper age, and the birth of Sargon and Gilgamesh.

Biology/Zoology
Food

What did the animals eat once they were off the Ark? Herbivores are automatically screwed since well a flood just killed all the plants. It isn't like Noah brought a green house with him since that would require he take every plant on the planet. Even so, he would have to wait till the plants grow, and deal with salination of all the soil. And also there's now a multitude of carnivores who are no longer being fed 24/7. As seen with the lion example previously, carnivores require a great deal of food to survive. And with 2 of every kind except for those clean, you get a great lunch while committing a mass extinction. The only real creatures that would have abundant food would be termites, parasites, and viruses, and they can't really eat it.

What would be done with koalas; who eat only eucalyptus leaves? What would be done with pandas; who eat bamboo almost exclusively? Many animals in the animal kingdom have very restricted diets, such as koalas and pandas. What would be done with predators such as lions; who eat an average of 9 kg, (20 lbs) per day? Just with two lions, someone has to fish for 40 pounds of food daily or store 1600 lbs of food, just for the lions to survive the 40 days and nights where it rained. Even if we ignore the dinosaurs, this is a ginormous problem for 8 uneducated Bronze age workers.

Evolution and Species Diversification
Of course, evolution is thrown out the window automatically, ignoring what 98% of all scientists in the American Association for the Advancement of Science who believe in the scientific process. One might also ask how there are giants, as in Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33. They are mentioned before and after the flood, but there is no mention of them being on the Ark. Additionally, under Biblical definitions, they wouldn't be considered animals since they could talk. Where did they go? Did we interbreed and become one species? Is this where Andre the Giant comes from? What is the explanation for this?

If all of the animals of the world repopulated in the Middle East after the flood, and went outward, why do we not see species diversification decrease the farther away from there. If Noah's Ark was true, why do we not see this. Additionally, one must ask how we don't have problems arising from excessive incest.

Viruses
One must also what happened with viruses. Who is the poor idiot who has to hold AIDS, Rabies, Smallpox, etc. Even if we ignore the high mortality rate for these viruses, there are of course a great deal of parasites, such as the human exclusive host parasite the African Eye Worm. One must also wonder how to deal with parasites and viruses in other animals. If one gets infected with a debilitating disease, for most animals you just screwed the whole species (Maybe that's why there are no unicorns?). Fleas ticks, mites, mosquitoes and intestinal worms would all have a place on the ark, with abundant food sources by the way.

Microbes
Were microbes on the Ark or not? Genesis makes no mention of them, either in the creation story or the flood. If Noah knew about microbes, this would at the very least require a microscope, something that wouldn't be invented at least till the late 15th century. And this would of course help explain that disease isn't caused by sin or the devil, rather germs. This may be something super helpful to write down in a book of wisdom. Additionally, microbes very specific needs, including refrigeration, incubation, high pressure and low pressure environments, incredibly diverse food substances (many which can't share the same space because some are toxic to others), diverse gas or fluid environments (again exclusive to each other, such as for aerobes and anaerobes). And please don't tell me Noah had a refrigerator full of deadly bacteria.

Insects
What's the deal with insects? One must ask how Noah caught all these insects when butterfly nets were invented, but that isn't even the most major problem. Insects are the most diverse group of animals on the planet and include approximately 2,200 species of praying mantis, 5,000 dragonfly, 20,000 grasshopper, 82,000 true bug, 120,000 fly, 110,000 bee, wasp, ant and sawfly, 170,000 butterfly and moth, and 360,000 beetle species described to date. The number of extant species is estimated at between six and ten million, with over a million species already described. Taking the very lowest number, 6 million bugs are quite an insect collection.
https://cbs.umn.edu......

http://www.pewresearch.org......

https://en.wikipedia.org......

Engineering
Structural Stability and Required Materials
Lets take the Great Micheal, one of the largest wooden ships ever built. It has been all said that it took "all the woods of Fife" as well as having to import wood from France, other areas in the Baltic sea, and cargo ships scrapped for use in its construction. One must wonder how an even larger ship could even supply this amount of wood, especially since the Middle East isn't exactly known for it's forests. Add to this that the largest wooden ship ever built, The Wyoming, was 450 ft long, and required iron braces and mechanical pumps to prevent the hull from flooding. And it still sank. One must ask how some of the best ship makers to ever live couldn't even come close Noah, a senior citizen drunkard. Ken Ham's AiG created a life size ark, sadly on land. No real life experiment. Construction took more than a year-and-a-half and involved more than 1,000 craftspeople, including electricians and plumbers. This also isn't considering how Ham's Ark was filled not with real animals, but stuffed animals. Within the ship are 95 tons of steel plates.
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