The Instigator
brian_eggleston
Pro (for)
Winning
19 Points
The Contender
B23_Black_Dragon
Con (against)
Losing
9 Points

Die deutsche Bundesregierung should quarantine HIV-positive people.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/15/2008 Category: Health
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,143 times Debate No: 5021
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (8)
Votes (8)

 

brian_eggleston

Pro

There is currently no effective cure for HIV, which leads to AIDS and, subsequently, thousands of Germans die of this highly contagious disease each year.

Die deutsche Bundesregierung (German federal government) should screen the entire populations for HIV and those found positive should be segregated and transported in sealed railway carriages direct to isolated convalescing camps where guests would be provided with food and accommodation in return for working in factories located within the compound. Obviously, some of the HIV-positive guests may be too sick to work so, in order to cover the cost of their bed and board, their assets would be seized and liquidated, which is only fair to the German taxpayer.

In order to stop the spread of the virus to the outside world, the guests will be invited not to leave the camps and, in order to ensure their compliance with this request, the compounds would be surrounded with high security fences, with armed hosts manning watchtowers at intervals.

Sadly, until a cure for AIDS is found, many guests will succumb to the decease and so the camps will need to be equipped with crematoria (though, unfortunately, the risk of the spreading the disease will mean that relatives of the deceased will not be permitted to attend the cremations).

I affirm that the introduction of convalescing camps for HIV-positive people will do much to help reduce the spread of this deadly virus.
B23_Black_Dragon

Con

Every year in Germany, the number 1 cause of death is Ischaemic heart disease.

In fact, all around the world Heart Disease is an insidious killer and the genetic predisposition spread rampantly through reproduction. Studies have revealed that certain genetic markers render people 30-40% higher risk for suffering a heart attack. (http://www.boston.com...)

For the sake of disease prevention, I suggest we open camps to congregate people with a predisposition for heart disease and forbid them from having children to breed a more genetically healthy population.
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What I'm most curious about is why bother with all the elaborate set up with the camps and the crematorium? If our goal is to eliminate the HIV virus, we'd have a much easier time of it just shooting every HIV infected man or woman in the head. the HIV virus is not airborne and if you ask me, that's a far more "efficient" method of combating the HIV virus. I mean modern Germany, unlike today's Russia or China, does not have the ruthlessness to carry out this complex prison quarantine scheme. I suspect that any attempt would end rather disastrously with HIV + individuals escaping left and right, spreading their deadly disease across all spectrum of German society. You know the best way to deal a blow to the HIV virus? The government should set a trap, announce that they've discovered a cure to the HIV and provide the "cure" to hospitals across the country. But instead of a cure, it'll be a virulent new strain of bacteria that's neither airborne nor waterborne, but will kill the subject within 2 weeks of infection. Then Bam. HIV wiped out with far more efficiency than this ugly, expensive prison idea.
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Oh I almost forgot. Why is it a bad idea for Germany to quarantine HIV infected individuals? For the last 60 years, Germany has worked desperately to "turn a new leaf". Although we (except the people in Iran) will never forget the Holocaust, we will also never forget the epic struggle of the German nation to teach it's people respect for others and it's stalwart dedication to the guiding principles of respect for life. If China tomorrow quarantined all HIV + citizens, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. But if the Die deutsche Bundesregierung quarantined all HIV + citizens, I wouldn't expect the government to last out the fortnight.
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To recap: Here are my 2 arguments against the Quarantine
1. For those of you who hate HIV +ives, (and Gay people)
The Quarantine is a stupid idea. It's a waste of money and space. It's expensive. And more importantly it's ineffective and will likely result in many HIV +s escaping to infect and restore their numbers. The fake cure is a much more effective method.

2. For those of you who are normal,
This is an action the German government cannot take and expect to survive. The German people of today, will not tolerate such an action by the government and will take down the Die deutsche Bundesregierung brick by brick.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 1
brian_eggleston

Pro

Many thanks to my opponent for addressing this important issue.

According to the genetic marker research my opponent referred to: "the variant may account for one-fifth of heart attacks among white Europeans and North Americans". Actually, obesity is a much bigger cause of health problems.

http://news.bbc.co.uk...

However, this problem could be alleviated by requiring all fast food restaurants to have narrower entrances.

http://www.debate.org...

That said, I do accept my opponent's suggestion that obese people should be sterilised in order to stop them breeding and I would urge the German government to adopt his plan without any further delay.

My opponent went on to attack my convalescing camps proposal by claiming it would be expensive and inefficient and that it would be much better just to shoot AIDS victims.

It is true that land in Germany is quite expensive. For that reason, I would suggest the Bundesregierung locate the camps somewhere where land is cheaper, like Poland for example. In any case, though, the camps will be self-financing, as the guests will earn their keep by working in the on-site factories - and those guests that are too sick to work will have all their property and possessions auctioned off to cover the cost of their vacation.

As for any guest that attempts to leave the camp before a cure for AIDS is developed: hosts will be under strict instruction to persuade them that an outside visit would be unadvisable by firing a warning shot into their head.

And as regards his faux "Cure for AIDS" centres with firing ranges in the back yard plan - nice idea, albeit morally questionable! However, I'm not sure (and I can't be bothered to check) but I suspect that this proposal may contravene some European Union law or other.

My opponent then suggested that Germany is trying to move away from its image of old. Hah! The German people will never change. In the nineteenth century, long before they started two world wars (each time after promising they wouldn't) the author Jerome K. Jerome (who was an admirer of the German race) observed that the German idea of duty is blind obedience to those in uniform. In his book Three Men on the Bummel he wrote: "The worst that can be said of them (the German people) is that they have their failings. They themselves do not know this, they consider themselves perfect". He also noted "Hitherto the German has had the blessed fortune to be exceptionally well governed…when his troubles will begin will be when by any chance something goes wrong with the governing machine."

http://books.google.co.uk...

I offer my fellow debaters my sincere thanks in advance for their support of this important measure in the fight against the spread of AIDS in Germany.
B23_Black_Dragon

Con

"In any case, though, the camps will be self-financing, as the guests will earn their keep by working in the on-site factories - and those guests that are too sick to work will have all their property and possessions auctioned off to cover the cost of their vacation."

To this I must voice my strenuous outrage and objection. The right of people to own property is the sacrosanct foundation of Capitalism. Shooting them, or sending them to detention camps is one thing. But to then auction off their property? To auction off the property of those who are too sick to work is despicable, it's borderline Communist. Such vulgar acts are not befitting of the capitalistic automobile producing empire Germany has made itself to be.

And furthermore, it will bring about a chaos and disorder as competing business rivals will import HIV infected Thai prostitutes to corrupt business partners to then purchase their assets at significantly reduced prices in these government held auction. The German economy will be assailed from every which angle and suffer disaster unheard of since the 1930s.

Without this auction system the concentration camps are thus inviable.
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"And as regards his faux "Cure for AIDS" centres with firing ranges in the back yard plan - nice idea, albeit morally questionable! However, I'm not sure (and I can't be bothered to check) but I suspect that this proposal may contravene some European Union law or other."

You know what else violates international law? Invasion of sovereign countries.

"For that reason, I would suggest the Bundesregierung locate the camps somewhere where land is cheaper, like Poland for example."

If we're going to violate international law anyway, might as well not save on the expenses.
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The only part of this plan I approve of is the national screening. Everyone should know definitively whether or not they are positive with the HIV virus. Those who are should abstain from sex with the general population unless they take exceptional precautions. And you know what? Many do.

Unlike the common cold, or other airborne virus and bacteria, people with HIV can take measures to make sure the virus is not spread, measures that do not require concentration camps.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 2
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Derek.Gunn 9 years ago
Derek.Gunn
Dear Nadine,

It appears Brian's humour has gone over the top of your head.
It also appears your caps lock key is on.

Cheers

Derek
Posted by nadine 9 years ago
nadine
WHAT, THAT'S ABSURD. YOU KNOW WHAT PEOPLE WITH HIV POSITIVE DO NOT DIE AUTOMATICALLY SO ISOLATING THEM CAN CREATE ANOTHER WAR.IF THAT WHAT YOU THINK THEN YOU SHOULD ALSO ADD PEOPLE WITH HERPES,AND OTHER CONTAGIOUS DISEASES BECAUSE HERPES IS MORE COMMON NOW DAYS THAN AIDS AND IT IS SPREAGING ALL OVER
THE WORD.COME ON JUST PROTECT YOUSELF AND BRING YOUR PARTENER FOR A CHECK UP .COMDOMS ARE NOT ALWAYS ACCURATE OR RELIABLE.ABSTIENCE FOR WHO CAN.CITIZENS FROM YOUR COUNTRY SHOULD OPEN THEIR EYES AND STOP DISCRIMINATION.
INVITE ME WHEN YOU CAN FOR ANY TOPIC .
Posted by Josh 9 years ago
Josh
"AYE!" yes, da, oui, jawhol, affirmative!
Posted by Derek.Gunn 9 years ago
Derek.Gunn
Right, that's it.
All those in favour of Debate.org paying Brian to continue posting debates say "AYE"!
Posted by DarkBitch 9 years ago
DarkBitch
I'm appalled by this idea, I agree with the other comment, What your suggesting Brian is no better than concentration camps of the past.

I really could go into a huge long debate about this but I haven't the energy right now.

Also

"I offer my fellow debaters my sincere thanks in advance for their support of this important measure in the fight against the spread of AIDS in Germany."

I find comments like this arrogant and a sly use of psychology :)
Posted by brian_eggleston 9 years ago
brian_eggleston
Thanks for debating this one with a good sense of humour, B23 Black Dragon!
Posted by tmf_luvs_debate 9 years ago
tmf_luvs_debate
It sounds like you want consentration camps... I think that no person should be locked in a high security camp and forced to work. Because that is not moving forward. That is moving back in time to when the germans had concentration camps for jews.
Posted by brian_eggleston 9 years ago
brian_eggleston
GSOH required for this one b/t/w!
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by JBlake 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by Jase_the_Ace 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by nadine 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by B23_Black_Dragon 9 years ago
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