The Instigator
IceStatue
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Mikal
Con (against)
Winning
16 Points

Disney Princesses are Bad Role Models

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Mikal
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/22/2014 Category: Movies
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 7,223 times Debate No: 49666
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (4)

 

IceStatue

Pro

Disney princesses, I say, are money cows for the movie makers and they will continue to milk the money at the expense of negatively influencing young minds. The Disney princesses all sport impossibly thin waists and beautiful faces. They all behave in the same 'lovely', feminine manner that implies if a young girl defies the gender stereotype, she is no long a worthwhile female.

The main problems with Disney princesses is that aside from looking pretty, they are all very, very similar to one another. Sleeping beauty has the same ambitions as snow white and Ariel; they all want to meet the perfect man and live with him happily ever after. This cannot be a good influence on today's girls. They should be encouraged to speak their opinions, to be independent and carve their way in the world - not to be told that their only chance at happiness is by finding the perfect man.

Since many people insist that Ariel rebels against her parents, she is a 'strong female character', let us use her as an example. She fights her well-intentioned parents and eventually abandons them, not caring whether they worry after her, to seek the handsome prince she has only seen once. She does not know whether he is kind or an acceptable human being except from the fact that he has a gorgeous face. She sacrificed her voice for a man she does not know, without any sense of self-preservation. In the end, despite finding her happiness, I think we can all draw a conclusion that deserting your parents to pursue the man you think you will love is not the way we want the young girls in this world to go.
Mikal

Con

I accept

I will offer you another round to build more contentions and I will respond in the next round.
Debate Round No. 1
IceStatue

Pro

Cinderella might have worked hard but she sat around doing nothing to improve her life while her stepmother bullied her. She is the sort of pushover female everyone should avoid being. The only time she took charge of her own lifea dn put her foot down was when she snuck to the ball ... but that was only because she dreamt of catching the eye of a handsome prince - and in true Disney fashion, they let her. The poor girl who did nothing for herself ended up with the perfect life.

Sleeping Beauty might have been graced with good looks and a pretty voice but she was also brilliant at playing up the 'damsel and distress' part. It turned out she slept for most of the movie and the only part we did see her say something was when she whined and whinged about being hidden away all her life without meeting up with her future-husband. Seriously, the most eventful part in the whole movie was when we were all watching the prince fight to get to his prize female. Disney portrays its female lead as chattle, as a trophey for the man. A bit ironic when we consider that it's young girls and not young boys who watch Disney princesses daydream their way to happiness.

When young children love something, they strive to be like their idol. The next thing you know, four year olds are dressed up in glittering dresses and high heels and blowing kisses at any young man who passes by. This is the sort of thing we should not see nowadays.

We want to see independent young women studyings and taking up the books, going to university and working their own way to success. If people in real life do not stare and faint at the sight of the male lead's perfectly toned arms, why on earth should it be portrayed in movies. It's positively disgraceful to women.

The official 'Which Disney Princess are you' quiz on Disney's site asked this: 'What says "Princess" More?' The listed answers set a boring and wrong outline of what the perfect female should be concerned about, including 'being rescued', 'true love's kiss', 'a fairytale wedding', 'enchanted objects' and 'living happily ever after'.
This is where feminists gag. One particular feminist even wrote a book titled 'Cinderella ate my Daughter'.

I am not saying Disney princess movies are unwatchable or even that all Disney princesses are abhorrable role models but that the majority are. The examples they set for young girls are absolutely ridiculous - and does nothing to help young girls learn that they have to fly on their own in a world where they cannot expect to fly on the backs of their own handsome princes.
Mikal

Con

Lets get straight into it

My adversary is trying to break down princesses on a per princess basis. I am not going to bother to do that, but give an overall outlook on them.

Perspective

The first Thing I want to touch on is that "what is bad", is a matter of perspective. What my adversary may see as a bad role model, others may not. She will have to show that they are objectively bad role models and provide facts to support this.


Traits they exhibit.

(1) Strong Will
(2) A strong sense of love ( staying with someone no matter what)
(3) Sense of adventure
(4) Loyalty
(5) Respect
(6) Humility

If we look anywhere from Jasmine to Ariel, they all show a strong sense of love and devotion. They are with one person and generally stay with that person, and it is often portrayed with a happy ever after ending. This shows young girls to not be promiscuous and sleep around, but encourages them to find someone they care about and stay with them. Even in the case of jasmine who turned down a family marriage, and married a street rat, she shows that love is more than wealth.

They have a strong sense of respect and dignity for those around them, and most of them also show a strong sense of will. They do what they feel is right and act according to what they believe. This is a lesson anyone can learn from. All in all they are good role models



Refutations


looks

My adversary is bringing up remarks about looks, and saying the images the princesses are given is promoting a bad outlook for young girls. My adversary is taking a basic "model" argument and applying it to this debate. She is essentially saying that because these princesses are portrayed like models, it will make girls want to try and obtain their figure.

She is basically comparing


this









to this









This entire contention is faulty. For this to stand up, she must

(a) Show there are negative consequences for portraying Disney princesses in a model like way (skinny hour glass shape as she described it
(b) Must actually show what is wrong with portraying them in this way
(c) Show that there is something something wrong with striving for a skinny hour glass shape

She has failed to do all of this, so this contention does not hold up.


Conclusion

I have shown how these princesses have some strong characteristics and how they could be good role models. My adversary has just cited certain situations that occur throughout the movies, and claim they are bad role models because of them. I have provided a guideline for their character and why they are good role models

Her resolution does not stand.
Debate Round No. 2
IceStatue

Pro

On the matter of perspective, there is the question of 'what are facts and what are opinions?' It may be true that a few people do not agree with Disney princesses matching the definition of bad role models - but does their opinions hold up when 95% other people believe otherwise? The popular definition of bad role models: someone who influences someone else to behave in a worse manner directly or indirectly, someone who downplays the importance of desirable qualities such as independence, diligence, standing firmly by one's values and morality.

My adversary's examples of traits Disney princesses exhibit is debatable.
1) Strong will? That depends on how you look at it. Not many princesses will speak up for themselves when it comes to their significant others. While they will gladly put someone (e.g. their mothers, friends, or fathers in the case of Ariel), they never disagree with their princes. This is either because they do not want to argue (since they're such good little females) or they are oblivious to their own beliefs once their prince speaks up. This is not what I would call strong will.
2) A sense of love is displayed unconditionally by each of the princesses, every single one. Even when the men are complete strangers, as long as they are handsome and they are men. When do you ever see the princesses extending that favour to others? Ariel disobeyed her own father to unconditionally love a stranger. This is a simplistic physical attraction and almost wholly superficial.
3) A sense of adventure only exists in some princesses. Perhaps 2 out of 10. Cinderella spent her own life cooped up while Snow White never thought to flee before her life was threatened.
4) Loyalty. To handsome princes, definitely. Not to the family that raised them, e.g. Ariel again.
5) Respect. Definitely. They respect their princes but not themselves. If they had a shred of self-respect, they would stop throwing themselves at their 'true love', even if Disney does always make them reciprocate.
6) Humility. Yes, this one I agree with, but I have another word for it: submissiveness.

Jasmine allowed a strange man to climb through her window while Ariel shows devotion to a total stranger she only saw once. True she did not sleep around - but she does always wear that skimpy bra of hers.

When I say Disney princesses are too scrawny, I mean they are. Hourglass thin is not a bad thing - but having a waist that looks like it would not even support the weight of the body and would certainly snap on a real life person is. People who are overweight can do with some slimming down but what about those who suffer from low self-esteem? Adults may need to go on diets. Children don't. Disney princesses are the equivalent of photoshopped models.

The truth is that Disney princesses focus too much on outward beauty and those who do show inside beauty make it seem artificial and only there to attract the prince. Moreover, the princesses are what? Twenty something? They cannot possibly marry at sixteen, right? And yet they seem so naive. Snow White ate a poisoned apple because the stepmother told her it would make her wish come true (her wish of marrying a prince) - and she ate it. Disney takes naivety and turns it into something glorious. How would parents be able to tell their children not to accept candy from strangers now?

Therefore, Disney princesses are, as a majority, bad role models.
Mikal

Con

At this point the debate is over. Pro has not upheld her BOP, nor did she cite any evidence or examples as for why her contentions are true. She just stated her thoughts without any evidence to support it. This is her bop to meet.

Rebuttals

Perspective.

She is trying to use popular as a gauge for what is and is not acceptable. She is saying because some people could see them as good role models, others do not. If these others who do not see them as good role models make up the majority, they win. This is her essential premise behind this contention. Needless to say it is wrong. No where is it cited that"95" percent of people see these girls as bad role models and I do not believe that stat either. Hypothetically even if that number were true, she is committing an ad populum[logical fallacy] [1]

Under this method we could justify the holocaust or any other situation like it. This is a very, very, faulty premise. My argument still stands. That just because she thinks they are bad role models, does not make it an objective fact. She has spent the entire debate asserting her opinion without any evidence to back it up


Traits

She concedes half of the points I made and says this is a matter of perspective. Again this goes back to perspective.

She says stuff like

" Strong will? That depends on how you look at it. "

" Humility. Yes, this one I agree with, but I have another word for it: submissiveness. "

She all but concedes these points. She has agreed to the fact that the princesses to have admirable traits and did not contest it much. This point goes to me.


Image

This entire point is dropped. I made the argument that she would have to show that striving to be skinny is bad or that there is something wrong with it. She would first have to show that making young girls want to look this way has a negative effect on them, before she could make this contention. She has failed to do this, and thus her entire contention just falls apart because of that.

She just said people suffer from self esteem because of these princesses. This is a baseless assertion with no evidence to support. With America having the highest obesity rate in the known world, striving to be healthy and skinny is a good motive if anything [2]

In addition to this just because a girl sees another girl, and they happen to have a good figure that is not the fault of the girl that has the good figure. It is called self esteem for a reason. It is esteem of your freaking self. If you have image issues and don't like the way you look, go freaking fix it.

Inner beauty

She says this

" The truth is that Disney princesses focus too much on outward beauty and those who do show inside beauty make it seem artificial and only there to attract the prince "

False , false, and more false. Half the princesses are not even looking for love and their inner traits and characteristics where there far before they met their prince. Jasmine was always wanting to go out and was kind and caring, then she ran into Aladin. Ariel was always running off looking for adventure and had a kind heart, and then she met her prince. Same with Pocahontas but even more so. She met her prince after he invaded her land, and her kind and gentle spirit changed his thoughts on the matter. Do I need to mention brave and many others?

This entire contention is just wrong. She claims they are faking inner beauty but that was there far before they met a prince.

NOTE : She has handed me the debate at this point. By acknowledging they have inner beauty, and then by me showing that this existed prior to them meeting their premise, this turns her own contention against her. This shows they have inner beauty and that it was not just to get a prince, and that it existed prior to this. She concedes the inner beauty part, and i have negated the stance about it only being to gain a prince. Therefor we can conclude they have inner beauty in general.


Conclusion

My adversaries entire round and rounds were baseless assertions with no evidence to support them. She has failed to show that princesses having a model like feature has negative effects on people , and that it is an example of a bad role model. No evidence was shown to support this

She also acknowledges at the end of the debate that they do have inner beauty and outer beauty. She also concedes half my examples of this mid way through the debate

We can conclude in fact that they are good role models, even my adversary admits to this by the end of the debate.


[1] http://www.nizkor.org...
[2] http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Jabuticaba 3 years ago
Jabuticaba
Kate Upton. :D
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by PiercedPanda 3 years ago
PiercedPanda
IceStatueMikalTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con had much better arguments. He easily countered all of pro's arguments, and let's not forget his picture of kate upton :D. He had great points on how pro is comparing disney princess too much to models, and how disney princesses also do good things.
Vote Placed by Nicoszon_the_Great 3 years ago
Nicoszon_the_Great
IceStatueMikalTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Tired argument anyway
Vote Placed by rross 3 years ago
rross
IceStatueMikalTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I REALLY wanted to vote for Pro on this, because I agree with her and it's also her first debate. Welcome to the site, IceStatue! I thought you argued well, but you needed to maybe come up with better evidence or stronger argument for your claims. But I really liked the topic.
Vote Placed by Defro 3 years ago
Defro
IceStatueMikalTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con made sound arguments and essentially refuted all of Pro's main arguments.