The Instigator
Lookingatissues
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points
The Contender
Sinque
Con (against)
Losing
3 Points

Diversity isn't the magic glue

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Lookingatissues
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/25/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 590 times Debate No: 100243
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (1)

 

Lookingatissues

Pro

I will be arguing that Diversity enthusiasts promote the idea that "Diversity, is the answer to all of America's problems. If America is to thrive or even survive they claim, a diverse population is the panacea, The elite intelligencia declare that If a well rounded out individual and citizen is the goal of educational institutions in America,diversity is necessary to accomplish this objective. Progressive leftist educators and activist Supreme Court Justices all agree diversity is the "Magic glue needed. But The real world in which we live diversity has proven to be divisive in its forced application and has resulted in greater separation among the racial and ethnic groups instead of promoting understanding and harmony. , " In a book Titled "No Campus For White Men, by Scott Greer,he quoted Huntington who said , "......The anglo-protestant culture .... describe..d.... glowingly in his book offered Americans a meaning, shared values, and a connection with one another....and he went on to write, ".....If a strong identity is thought important for a people then this theory should hold true for all races" By this theory then "diversity," isn't the "magic glue"that its hyped to be for a nation. What makes the subject of "Diversity," so scary, so sacrosanct that no one dares to debate on that subject. Has political Correctness made the topic taboo, the holy grail of Progressive ideology. I have always been lead to believe that liberals, progressives, were for "freedom of expression, the freedom to express different thoughts but I guess that virtue that the liberals, progressives, touted was just for show.... It does seem that way doesn't it.
Sinque

Con

I accept the challenge.

As far as I can tell, you are stating that diversity isn't the 'magic glue' the thing that makes a country work.

My argument is that diversity is an extremely important part of America (and the rest of the world) and is necessarily for a effective civilization.
Debate Round No. 1
Lookingatissues

Pro

You replied,"diversity is an extremely important part of America (and the rest of the world) and is necessarily for a effective civilization.
Diversity is a word, like other words, has several connotations and its significance and importance depends in what context the word Diversity is applied. If a group of people have a objective of accomplishing a certain task more efficiently would " Diversity" of thought work well if the objective for instance was to move a wagon in a certain direction if all the individuals attempting to move that wagon along in one direction all pushed on that wagon in diverse directions of their own personal choices. A nation is no different than this analogy just given, that a people must, to be effective and enduring as a nation, share a commonality of purpose among them.
"Society can be defined as a group of people who share a common economic, social, and industrial infrastructure. It is an organization of people who share a common cultural and social background...." http://www.buzzle.com...
But what happens when a nation's people lose that commonality that once united them as a united people.
John Stuart Mills said this regarding the effects of diversity
".....In all political societies which have had a durable existence, there has been some fixed point; something which men agreed in holding sacred" We mean a feeling of common interest among those who live under the same government" that one part of the community do not consider themselves as foreigner with regard to another part" that they" feel that they are one people, that their lot is cast together."
".... 'society'.... The word is a derivation of the French word societe, which came from the Latin word societ as meaning 'a friendly association with others'.
Read more at Buzzle: http://www.buzzle.com...
Friendly association???
It has been the plan of some immigrants coming to this country representing "Diversity" do not all wish America well or to become Americans but instead plan to separate and recapture and take over part of America, the southwest, and make it a part of a foreign nation, Mexico.

Diversity....
"Aldous Huxley made the same point when he noted that "faith in the bigger and better future..."Diversity"..... is one of the most potent enemies to present liberty: for rulers feel themselves justified in imposing the most monstrous tyranny on their subjects for the sake of the wholly imaginary fruits which these tyrannies are expected to bear some time in the distant future."7
Bastiat, Socialism, and the Blank Slate
James Peron
Sunday, June 01, 2003
Imposing open borders, by not enforcing immigration laws, on the American people by their government "....is one of the most potent enemies to present liberty..." Liberty of the citizens consists of the liberty of deciding through their government who, and how many immigrants will be allowed to enter this country. "Diversity," is being forced on the American people and the costs are high in both money and in disharmony amongst the people of this nation.
Sinque

Con

First of all, please make a clear separation of your each of your points as well as individual quotes and text. It is very difficult to read.

Diversity and different are not the same. Different means 'not alike'. Diverse means 'with many variations'. This is important. The United States of America may have many variations, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have some common things. Everyone has the want to live a good life for them and/or others. Even terrorists and criminals. That alone is enough to unify the people.

Sure, those people have different opinions on how the country should be run. Because not everyone is the same. So America will operate somewhere in the middle of how it is wanted.

Diversity can bring massive separation. Different races. Different genders. Different sexual orientations. Different species. But that diversity also creates smaller unified groups. These groups work together with their commonness. Sometimes groups will drop their diversity and unify together. Of course, their opinions will conflict. The Republicans might disagree with the Democrats on abortion, and they will fight each other, but they both want to live well.

The world could stand unified together. It doesn't. That allows the smaller groups with their own opinions to get what they want instead of their opinions to conflict. Or at least the groups will have agreeing opinions.

Diversity doesn't always separate to the point of opposition. When it does, it brings unity to the separated groups.

Realize also to saying we should no allow immigrants is saying you, an immigrant, should not be allowed in. It doesn't matter that you are here already, you weren't the first. No one was. All matter in the universe has immigrated. It is one thing if immigration is damaging the United States, but it isn't. There is a shrinking population already. And they don't bring damaging diversity. They are in their unified communities. They aren't 'killers and rapists' like Donald Trump says.

And when diversity doesn't harm us, it helps us. The most important thing to humanity so far is separation of jobs. Without it, we would still be hunter gatherers. It has enabled nearly every invention in human history. It has improved everything humans experience. And it is because of diversity.

Without diversity, everyone would be doing the same thing. They would act the same way. That sounds really boring.
Debate Round No. 2
Lookingatissues

Pro

( A ) Sinque replied,"Diversity and different are not the same. Different means 'not alike'. Diverse means 'with many variations'..."
( A ) lookingattheissus 2's reply.....I would say that your definitions of "Diversity" and "difference" is a ....
****"Difference without a distinction, A distinction without a difference".... a type of logical fallacy where an author or speaker attempts to describe a distinction between two things although no difference exists."
Quote: Author unknown
________
definitions of "Diversity" and "difference"
The condition of being composed of different elements or types...
#2 "The quality or state of being different..."
****(Quote from Merrian Webster dictionary)
________________________
Quote: Dictionary difinition of (SYNNONYM)
SYNNONYM: A word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another in the language..."
( B ) Sinque replied,"Sure, those people have different opinions on how the country should be run. Because not everyone is the same. So America will operate somewhere in the middle of how it is wanted."
( B ) lookingattheissues2's reply: I would ask if you would think it proper for guests who entered your home to determine and set the bounderies and rules for you and your family.This is the situation that America is facing, Immigrants attempting to determine what type of government, laws, entitlements, they will live under.
Because immigrants have came to America, doesn't mean Americans surrendered their right to set the rules in their own country, immigrants choose to come here.
(C ) Sinque replied," The Republicans might disagree with the Democrats on abortion, and they will fight each other, but they both want to live well..."
( C ) lookinattheissues2 Reply: Republicans and Democrats are the designations of two American political parties, it is their right between them to establish the policies that Americans are expected to live by.
It is not the prerogative of immigrants to presume to set policies for Americans to live by, illegal immigrants have managed to vote in our elections and effect what type of government we have because democrats a liberal American political party, refuses to allow the purging of the voting rolls of deceased voters, refuses to require photo Ids, and in general makes voter fraud possible.
The cost to tax payers for Diversity
"The study of the fiscal effects of illegal immigration clearly demonstrates that it is a burden on the American taxpayer," says Martin. More forceful implementation of immigration laws could save each U.S. household "in the neighborhood of a couple of thousand dollars a year."
ABC NEWS
_______________
"....former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm gave a speech on how to destroy America, he said the following,
"Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide."Here is how they do it,
"Turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bi-cultural country. History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual." The historical scholar Seymour Lipset put it this way:
"The histories of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy..." Diversity isn't a blessing but a curse upon a nation dividing its citizens into separate groups with divided interests, loyalities, languages and traditions. A divided peoples may share the same country but they are not united.
Sinque

Con

Funny, you mention Merriam Webster, because I just checked the site, and the definitions are definitely not the same. Onto my counter arguments.

First of all your banter about immigrants is complete and utter ridiculousness. The 'illegal' immigrants simply won't change the rules.

The only time that happened was when Christopher Columbus invaded the homelands of the Americans there. There is a great quote about this:

'Christopher Columbus. Terrorist or illegal immigrant?'

That was because he led to the killing of thousands of Americans.

U.S. Mexicans aren't killers anymore than whites are. Ignoring all the fake data made today, I found of the top 7 serial killers in the United States, one was born out of the U.S. and they weren't at the top of the list. Based on the amount of mass shootings in the U.S. there was essentially the same amount of whites and Hispanics of their population amount. What I mean is the immigrants aren't killers more than the people that are already here.

Most can't even vote. You might think they shouldn't be allowed to, but the Founding Fathers didn't want non-landowners to vote either.

The Constitution disables the ability for any one person to do much. So even if the immigrants can elect someone, that person won't be able to change things easily.

Not that they want to. The immigrants have the same basic wants and needs as the rest of us, and have the same groups of views as the rest of us. Because we are all immigrants that all want to have a life. The more humans we bring in doesn't make more diversity because humans are 99.5% the same. There are differences, but for everyone out there, there is another with practically the same exact views in a country this size.

These immigrants may be more slanted in certain ways, but they are just as much as part of our country as the rest of us are, because government is a silly little thing created by humans.

In some ways the immigrants do cost us, (schools, etc.), but they also have jobs and make economic flow. So here is my question:

Why should you be paid for and not others that weren't born here? There simply isn't a reason.

Immigration may have killed countries in the past, but it won't now. The Roman Empire partly fell to immigration, but that was because the immigrants were largely from the areas that invaded. It would be like if the Muslims in the United States were actually against us and a larger more powerful ISIS attacked us, and no other country would help.

I've done some research, and the only time immigration destroys a country is when the immigrants are the enemies of the country. The rest of the time, they are completely harmless.

A lot of these immigrants do bring great things because of their diversity, like Christmas, which immigrants brought to the U.S. in the nineteenth century.

Conclusion:
1. Diversity does little harm
2. It brings unity among smaller groups.
3. Immigrants aren't terrible, you are one too.
4. Immigrants bring amazing things.
5. The existence of groups at all is responsible for diversity, particularly separation of jobs.
6. Racism, sexism, speciesism, etc. exist but they are always being reduced as time moves on.
7. Life would be boring if it wasn't for diversity.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Lookingatissues 1 year ago
Lookingatissues
Sinque... Con: "Funny, you mention Merriam Webster, because I just checked the site, and the definitions are definitely not the same...."
lookingattheissues2 reply: I have no way of knowing whether there is more than one Merriam-Webster version, I gave you the definition from Merriam-Webster that I have here.
Another dictionary," Dictionary.com,gives the following definition for the word,"Diversity."
Dictionary.com
"diversity"
noun, plural diversities.
1.the state or fact of being diverse; difference; unlikeness:
diversity of opinion.
Synonyms
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
2. change, (difference,) variation, dissimilarity.
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, " Random House, Inc. 2017.
I have come to the conclusion that no matter which dictionary or version you might use the below quote still applies to the distinction you referred to in your response.
"Difference without a distinction, A distinction without a difference".... a type of logical fallacy where an author or speaker attempts to describe a distinction between two things although no difference exists."
Quote: Author unknown
Con replied, "....First of all (your banter about immigrants is complete and utter ridiculousness.) The 'illegal' immigrants simply won't change the rules...."
To be so dismissive and derisive in your appraisal of my post only had the effect of placing you in the tradition and techniques of progressives and Saul Alinsky in his "Rules for Radicals," Rules for radicals Saul Alinsky 1971 "when he wrote the fourth rule." Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then reacts to your advantage. You obviously have learned your lessons well but it was a wasted effort on your part.
Posted by Lookingatissues 1 year ago
Lookingatissues
You remarked," Wow Pro's first round was really weak.."
Diversity isn't the glue that will keep this nation from dissolution and a former president said as much.
Teddy Roosevelt said in this speech to the Knights of Columbus in 1915: "There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism... a hyphenated American is not an American at all...." "......The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic....."
This is what has happened to this country we have permitted immigrants from all over the world to cross our borders and settle here and our government hasn't demanded of them that they accept our traditions and learn and speak our language and become Americans in every way .
The elite politicians and intelligentsia have a disdain and loathing for the average citizens and pit them against one another and sit by amused, while they go about doing their mischief.
"It is the old practice of despots to use a part of the people to keep the rest in order."
- Thomas Jefferson
Posted by Hiu 1 year ago
Hiu
Wow Pro's first round was really weak
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Social-Justice_Carnist 1 year ago
Social-Justice_Carnist
LookingatissuesSinqueTied
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Total points awarded:43 
Reasons for voting decision: Jesus.