Do Muslims know the TRUE GOD?
Debate Rounds (5)
So how ca a muslim know who JESUS CHRIST is producing peace in their lives?
I can't seem to fail to understand something. I am not claiming to believe the same as the Westboro Baptist Church... Did I make such claims, or did you make such assumptions and unconfirmed statements as absolute truths?
Many can claim to be a Christian who are not, but anyone claiming to be a muslim and do not follow in the specific practice of their faith gets shunned, killed, alienated, or worse from your own claimed faith for failing to follow the directions of their religious leaders. ALL OF WHICH I DID NOT SPEAK OR DIRECT THE QUESTION TOWARDS.
If you want to redirect the topic, how about this,
why was it that the Muslims were fighting with the Christians conquering lands in Africa like Ethiopia found a bean that they taxed from non-muslims (KOFFERS) used the beans therefore for their battles, and when they were defeated in a war by the Christians the Christians asked their religious leaders if it was acceptable to consume this drink.
Do you know what it is now known as? I'll give you the answer: COFFEE
"The first coffeehouse in Austria opened in Vienna in 1683 after the Battle of Vienna, by using supplies from the spoils obtained after defeating the Turks. The officer who received the coffee beans, Polish military officer of Ukrainian origin Jerzy Franciszek Kulczycki, opened the coffee house and helped popularize the custom of adding sugar and milk to the coffee. Melange is the typical Viennese coffee, which comes mixed with hot foamed milk and a glass of water.
Do you know the history of how the crescent roll was started? Would you believe it was due to the MUSLIMS CONQUERING CHRISTIAN FORTS, and they were tunneling underground to have the local bakers located in the walls hear some weird noises direct the noises to the local Military Garrison long story short, the Garrison counter-tunneled and ended the siege. What did the Military Garrison ask the bakers they wanted in return? Simple: To make a pastry in the
form of the crescent moon. Now we know this as the Crescent Roll.
Fanciful stories of how the kipferl " and so, ultimately, the croissant " was created are widespread and persistent culinary legends, going back to the 19th century. However, there are no contemporary sources for any of these stories, nor does an aristocratic writer, writing in 1799, mention the kipferl in a long and extensive list of breakfast foods.
The legends include tales that it was invented in Europe to celebrate the defeat of the Umayyad forces at the Battle of Tours by the Franks in 732, with the shape representing the Islamic crescent; that it was invented in Buda; or, according to other sources in Vienna, in 1683 to celebrate the defeat of the Ottomans by Christian forces in the siege of the city, as a reference to the crescents on the Ottoman flags, when bakers staying up all night heard the tunneling operation and gave the alarm. This has led to croissants being banned by some Islamic fundamentalists.
Do you know why the original American Colonies were formed in America? It was because the Muslim Faith was warring to make all the country's muslim and under Christian faith. So what did the Military Treasury end up deciding? Each Country should have their own denominational teaching. So what happened you ask that is so significant? Go to any country around the world, and you will hear specific denominational names referring to their Country. Like the Church of England for example that still exists. Each country that had other denominational practices minorities were persecuted. So they sought to practice freely in their own lands. HENCE EACH COLONY WAS A SEPERATE CHRISTIAN PRACTICE; Amish, Presbyterian, Baptist, Lutheran, and ETC... Tell me this was taught to you in school because of separation of church and state confusion today. I know it isn't that's why I bring it up.
The European wars of religion are usually taken to have ended with the Treaty of Westphalia (1648), or arguably, including the Nine Years' War and the War of the Spanish Succession in this period, with the Treaty of Utrecht of 1713. In the 18th century, the focus shifts away from religious conflicts, either between Christian factions or against the external threat of Islam. The European Miracle, the Age of Enlightenment and the formation of the great Colonial empire together with the beginning decline of the Ottoman Empire mark the end of the geopolitical "history of Christendom". Instead the focus of western history shifts to the development of the nation-state, accompanied by increasing atheism and secularism, culminating with the French Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars at the turn of the 19th century.
So Back to the original question, unless you want to go on with more distractions from the original debate.
My Father in Heaven heals people from diabetes, just listen to the sermon called Wait Upon the Lord from https://flames-of-fire.org... site.
Does your Muslim father do such things as I speak?
I repeat my question, if your father in heaven does his will on earth as it is in heaven; does he deliver your believers in the name of your god from spirits and demons as the Christian faith does?
Does your father in heaven heal others from diseases, illnesses, sicknesses, or other health effects?
Or does he just want to kill everyone and have everyone seek death as their final reward?
I'm confused, your response is rather weak and not convincing, to throw attacks that are not even relevant is absurd to me.
I love you as a Christian, but I may not condone or love your actions, words, or decisions. That is the true Christian way.
If there is a Christian established government (which I would argue the United States of America has turned away from but that's a separate debate), then I believe that Christian rules and punishments should be established and followed.
But today's world is full of too many wolves in sheep clothing all claiming the same monetary policy, follow me, listen to me, obey me, feed me, and give me all your money. I will not heal you, I will not deliver you from spirits or demons, I will not pray with conviction that you may be well. That is the majority of christian denominations today. No where did I state what denomination I was, did you see me post what denomination I was for you to go out and attack my denomination preference as Christians have today?
I don't believe this is a true teaching of my faith in JESUS CHRIST as my LORD and SAVIOR to have DENOMINATIONS... DENOMINATIONS are a description of Man seeking up to GOD for answers in what Man wants from GOD, not what GOD wants from MANKIND.
If you want to attack up on denominations, let me join you... don't think you are alone in saying that denominations are not following the true Father up in Heaven for I would make the statement that if each church that claims a denomination teaching does not deliver out spirits and demons from people, openly and publicly offers to pray for people to be delivered from their illness, sickness, or whatever may be hindering them and actually listens to GOD the HOLY SPIRIT to be answered on what to say or do they are not listening to GOD, just like the Westboro Baptist Church.
So what is your specific belief or practice that teaches of JESUS CHRIST's love, grace and mercy that installs the ability to listen and through JESUS CHRIST's POWER ONLY grants the ability to deliver and heal people?
I have many experiences from both a satanic/occultic/wiccan/demonic that I could share my experience of what took place when I deployed to IRAQ my second time, and what happened when I made a test-trial pact with Satan.
But I have never heard of any or or similar experiences or acknowledgement of this taking place from the Muslim faith, even when I do ask muslims they always refer me to their imams, or religious scientific professor.
I as well do request that this entire debate be covered by the BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST TO PROTECT BOTH INDIVIDUALS DEBATING so no demon, spirit, curse or illness may strike either individual upon conversing in this debate.
But I am very inquisitive to understand your logic of why using westboro baptist church to consider it a worthy rebuttal to my question.
And I will repeat my initial question:
So How can a muslim know a JESUS CHRIST who producing peace in their own lives?
Why is it that you seem to constantly try to throw the conversation down a different tunnel?
If you are not able to admit and speak of similiar or such things, then it proves my arguement as correct, as each time I ask you to direct your debate topic correctly you speak in different direction that my initial questions posted.
So let me see if I can break-down what you are saying to see if I can understand and put it in order in what I am saying:
Every religion has good and bad people. Jewish, Christian, Muslim or otherwise.
"I would suppose to a degree this would be possibly true but this is under man's own understanding of what good or bad is and not from a spiritual manner for one sin is enough to seperate humans from the presence of GOD, however some of the leaders involved if not showing the manner I speak of may have good intentions or wrong understandings of how to seek after GOD. But again it doesn't validate my arguement of how the muslims faith demonstrates how the PEACE OF JESUS CHRIST can be displayed from a MUSLIM as True Christians have had experiences of JESUS CHRIST's MERCY, GRACE and DELIVERANCE. I ask a seperate question if even possible to be answered as I have yet to be answered what testimonies do muslims have of such deliverances from spirits and demons or illnesses, comas, and likewise problems?"
Christians need to reform their own religion before they reform that of someone else.
"More than once I am confused why you would make such a statement. If the evil one I speak of SATAN is real, that means he will do anything and everything I speak of to confuse individuals on what the truth is and what type of hope they should have and what to do to be good, correct and proper. Reformation starts from one and spreads through the power of the HOLY SPIRIT for those WHO SEEK HIM IN REPENTANCE. The power should be obvious, known, and understood healing of sicknesses, illnesses, and disease is one way to show such a revival, such as I have provided one testimonial site of such events, flames-of-fire.org this site is a physical location I attend sometimes on Friday nights, go send them a message with actual contacts, see if what you request can be responded to by GOD through them. I dare you, I challenge you, wait I DEBATE YOU to do so and verify for yourself read their site if you believe the link I provided isn't brimming with viruses, trojans, and other computer hacking capabilities.
I haven't provided you reason to believe I would offer such a link in such an arguement have I?"
Yeshua said to remove to remove the log in your own eye before you remove the thorn in someone else's eye.
"I am confused to what you are trying to say, first you attack me in the concept that I believe or am associated with the same belief as the westboro baptist church, now you are saying I need to remove the log in my own eye before I remove the thorn in someone else's eye?"
I don't understand your statement of logical debate.
1. I never claimed to believe the same as the westboro baptist church.
2. I never claimed to believe that of any denominational church.
3. I never said that I was perfect, but further inquired as to the practice and examples and demonstrations of how a muslim faith claims to believe in the same JESUS CHRIST, when obviously this entire debate is pointing towards the fact that you don't really know or understand what I am even saying.
I can't help but sadly admit perhaps you are confused in how to discuss something such as a miracle, healing, deliverance from a spirit/demon, or removing of curses from individuals being a muslim because you have no experience, no knowledge and no understanding of what I sincerely speak.
Can you openly admit that you do not understand such things I speak?
If you could do that we can end this debate, otherwise I am concerned you may be opening yourself up to a confusing conversation which I am describing the peace that JESUS CHRIST has to offer those who truly seek after HIS NAME and HIS PRESENCE with that of a legalistic do this or you will not reach your definition of heaven.
I do not legalistically need to do anything to get to heaven.
However the actions and desires of my life would be crying out to do things that honor my Father in Heaven even if I do not do anything to get to heaven.
As well, a luke-warm Christian would be spit out of GOD's mouth and would be worse than someone who never claimed to know who is JESUS CHRIST.
What I am saying those who truly know JESUS CHRIST knows ABSOLUTE PEACE. ABSOLUTE PEACE can only come from the TRUE GOD.
No minor god can provide absolute peace, no minor god can heal without a consequence, no curse can be lifted without consequence from a minor god. No minor god can deliver humans from spirits or demons inside of a person considered today to be mental needing to be inside a mental house, or psych house or whatever other terminology you describe as not being *all-there-in-the-head*.
My GOD, my JESUS CHRIST is the TRUE ABSOLUTE HOPE and FAITH.
If JESUS CHRIST did not provide complete peace offering healing and deliverance then I would be seeking for another faith another belief, another practice... like wiccan/occultic/demonic/satanic practices which I have experienced first hand as well.
Have I experienced peace from this faith? Yes, but it was done through a cleansing ritual that I know nothing of how it was done, or what was required for the ritual to be completed. And even then, the peace was only temporary, not complete or constant.
Inconsistent peace, inconsistent joy, inconsistent healing and inconsistent deliverance comes from weak gods. Or are not even possible period.
I talk of healings, deliverances, spirits/demons, and curses because I know of them from my faith, which tells me my GOD is the TRUE GOD.
And if any other inferior faith claims to believe in the same GOD, I would like to have them clarify how it is the same GOD, for such examples that I mention are extremely difficult to reproduce the same results.
This leads the arguement to be filled with smoke and mirrors to divert, ignore and change the actual hard subject and topic to answer.
Every diversion, smoke and mirrors to divert, ignoring, and changing the actual hard subject leads to strengthen my arguement that the MUSLIMS DO NOT KNOW THE TRUE GOD!
So, do you want to continue to change the subject, ignore the subject, smoke and mirrors to divert or actually discuss the topic at hand?
I'll let you decide, as your comments are overwhelmingly proving my side if you are a true muslim, or just someone claiming to be a muslim that the true muslim, imam, or religious scientific professor would probably shriek at such blasphemous type of arguements you have offered in defense of your discussion.
Have you seen any discussion or debate before on if the bible is the inherrant word of GOD?
To judge a religion, one must first understand what the TRUE FAITH IS.... Again, why are you providing smoke and mirrors diverting and changing the subject?
If you did not want to provide an adequate debate, I would have much preferred you to have never volunteered to be debating.
If this is your first time ever to debate, I apologize if I seem to be running circles in your feeble arguements that I can't seem to grasp to understand as an actual arguement.
But let me recap what your discussion and what your sequence of events have provided so far:
"It is wrong to judge religion."
You accused me to be that of like the westboro baptist church, that picket fenced funeral of armed forces who are gay among other actions that they perfomed.
I never once claimed to be of that faith type denomination, yet you made the open accusation like I was and provided a possible debate, but really turned out to be a really bad attempt to become in control of the debate, that didn't even prove if the Muslims know the TRUE GOD.
"If you do not like Muslims, do not be a Muslim."
Tell me again, when did I say that I do not like muslims.. I can't seem to find that in anywhere of what I spoke. I spoke of their history the best of which I could understand after you accused me of being a certain type of chrisitian I was not.
Did I say you are of the same muslims like the history I spoke of? No, however I know you would consider me a koffer since I am not a muslim believer like you apparently are I am not being judgemental but your faith already does profess judgement against those who are not muslim to include lying to those who are not muslims because they are not of the true faith. Or did I misquote your quran or one of your hadiths?
"Here in America, no one is forced to a Muslim. It begs the uestion as to why Muslims allegedly do know God."
Smoke and mirrors, diversion. What does this have to do with anything in what I am attemting to get you to discuss with me?
If you do not want to debate, just tell me you don't want to debate.
I could speak of many things that people claim prove that Muslims know GOD, but I would shoot all of them down as I speak of them.
Please provide a knowledgeable feedback or just reply back with I don't know how to respond and stop providing me so little detail that it makes me even question if you really are a muslim.
Being a Christian is more than just loving your neighbor as yourself. It is about spreading GOD's GOSPEL, rebuking demons, spirits, illnesses, and sicknesses living progressively and ambitiously inside humans and casting confusion upon their soul.
One manner to combat this, is to have open discussions like this to actually communicate the false claims of other faiths as no other faith can offer what I am speaking of with a constant consistency.
What do I say or can I not say right now?
In so many different ways I feel blessed, honored and amazed.
I truly want to talk of Christ, Healing, and Deliverance to people.
But at the same time I want to talk of it in such a way so that people know and understand my full intact background without misinterpretation.
I have had experiences where GOD truly showed me HIS interaction and love, but as well I ask for understanding.
I cannot ever say that I have been to a Christian organization where someone is being prayed for, and I felt compelled to just sit and pray in agreement with the prayer before whatever is being prayed due to feeling the compellion of the Holy Spirit to just bow my head and pray in agreement.
I truly and sincerely do not say these things to boast or brag.
I say these things to provide clarity and witness to the testimony of the Holy Spirit's presence being felt and followed.
I desire to say that I have felt these same feelings when others attend churches everywhere, but my limited scope of experiences only encompasses Southern Baptist Denominational teachings growing up which completely lacked the encompassing of such practices, teachings and understandings of what I am constantly learning more about now.
Something I believe GOD has directed me to acknowledge and try to get people to consider is this:
HOPE- there is no ABSOLUTE HOPE WITHOUT BELIEF IN JESUS CHRIST AND WHAT HE CAN DO
Without ABSOLUTE HOPE is only DESPAIR and with NO ABSOLUTE HOPE there cannot be peace as nothing is certain because upon ABSOLUTE HOPE builds TRUST and FAITH in the unseen but TRUSTING with FAITH it to be TRUE.
Without hope, builds distrust, this turns into a lack of faith of the unseen that turns into a lack of belief of the ABSOUTE TRUTH.
I know this may be a bit of words twisting, but consider it for a second in what I am trying to to say.
HOPE BUILDS PEACE.
DISPAIR BUILDS TURMOIL.
Someone cannot have peace if their hope isn't absolute in the faith.
Someone's faith cannot be absolute if they have not understood Absolute Truth.
Someone's Truth cannot be Absolute if they haven't experienced the power of the Holy Spirit inside of their lives from a direct understandng of the movement in the HOLY SPIRIT.
Someone cannot experience the HOLY SPIRIT without first seeking out GOD to truly provide understanding of the unseen and unknown of GOD's desires for your life.
To understand the unseen and unknown of GOD's desires for your life is to best seek after what the Scriptures speak of in why JESUS CHRIST died on the Cross to bear the burdens of your pains, sickness, diseases, ailments, sins, and anything unholy.
This is the best and most direct manner of which I know how to speak of such clarifications.
It is a build-up of clarifications and specifics from how I can explain it.
Is it possible for the Holy Spirit to by-pass the manner of which I speak of? Yes!
But, how does this happen you ask?
Simple: You have a pain, burden, hurt, problem, disease, tumor, or etc... seek or accept someone offering for pray for you in the name of JESUS CHRIST that is known to be a sincere follower to the best of their abilities (not a casual sunday, wednesday, whenever attending church different than normal days not in church individual) to remove the problem causing this in your life and keep seeking an answer for it to be removed until it finally happens and seek to understand how to walk to keep the problem from coming back.
These individuals are powerful, not because of who they are individually, but because of their faith and available testimonies in what they have seen JESUS CHRIST perform before their eyes out of their own commitment and faith to follow the path of obedience to JESUS CHRIST as their LORD AND SAVIOR.
But you still need to be careful, because if someone prays for you, and they say that because nothing happened it's GOD's will for you to still have this condition, problem, or whatever it may be and it contradicts the message of CHRIST's healing desires and abilities ask the HOLY SPIRIT directly what HIS ANSWER IS. If you are patient, diligent and persistent enough you will know directly the answer and why if only told, "NO" with asking why.
There are times that GOD's will is for someone to maintain their condition and situation, but that doesn't mean to just immediately stop asking if you do not get an answer right away or told "NO" without knowing why first. Sometimes the answer is, "NO," because the person asking for deliverance/healing isn't willing to give up, forgive or change something that GOD told them long time ago not to do. But each situation is special and unique according to GOD's will for each and every individual for situations.
GOD is not late, it is GOD's ability for HIS TIME to occur as HE WISHES, HE CONTROLS ALL THINGS.
But in all things, I don't see your facts anywhere. I am a wesboro baptist christian... (Since when was that a reflection of how a Muslim knows the TRUE GOD?).
Hypocrisy of religion... which religion where, how?
Did I not actually join you on such hypocrisy? I never once said that is what I believed to to or be or did I somewhere and I misunderstood such comments?
Please help me to understand how you are debating, because I am debating on the unseen. Things that have CAPITAL LETTERS for the whole WORD due to their potency and urgent need for MANKIND to learn and understand.
Unlike the Muslim faith that is built upon scientific research to forget, ignore and erase JESUS CHRIST's Healing, Delivering, and Removing POWERS. Who the muslims claim to believe as well to be the same supposed person when there is a complete clashing of evidence of what the muslims actually practice and teach.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by HardRockHallelujah 1 year ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Con actually participated in the debate. Pro didn't even address anything that was being brought up, all Pro did was point out flaws in other religions, which was not the topic of this debate.
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