The Instigator
Laprlev
Con (against)
Winning
19 Points
The Contender
RedRum
Pro (for)
Losing
6 Points

Do homosexuals choose to be gay?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 8 votes the winner is...
Laprlev
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/15/2014 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,107 times Debate No: 56628
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (8)

 

Laprlev

Con

1st Round - Acceptance. 2nd Round - Opening Statements. 3rd Round - Closing Statements.

Homosexuals do not choose to be gay. I am a gay man and there was never a time that I chose to be gay.
RedRum

Pro

Trust me I know plenty of gay people (I'm not gay myself I have a girlfriend and I like v jay jays) and they have all said the felt gay since the were very young.
Debate Round No. 1
Laprlev

Con

Pro, are you saying that you believe that homosexuals do not choose? Please be more informative and clear on your position.

However, I will contend that by your implication of people "feeling gay," that you think that they do choose.

Numerous scientists suggest that a person's sexuality has a direct relation to their birth order.

"It is also believed that birth order has a direct relation to whether or not one is gay. It is possible that a woman's fetus builds up certain antibodies in her first pregnancy, if it is with a male, to male antibodies, and these affect the development of male fetuses in subsequent pregnancies (4). For each older brother, humans are believed to be approximately 33% more likely to be homosexual." [http://serendip.brynmawr.edu...]

In personal terms, this is correct. From my mother came three males, myself being the youngest. According to this study then, my chances of being homosexual were between 66% and 80% and as stated above, I am homosexual.

From my own personal experiences though, there was never a time in my life when I chose to either be heterosexual or homosexual. In terms of societal issues, why would I have chosen a life where I would be ridiculed and discriminated against over a "normal" life?
RedRum

Pro

Very sorry for that half way through my argument I decided to go to the toilet and my brother clicked on the review and post button. But as I was saying they were gay when they were young because they like the look the boys and chose to be gay.

Argument:

First of all I would like to say right off the bat that not a single scientist can find a gay "gene" and maybe it is a myth that it even exists but let's say they do find one gay people have a choice to oppose the "gene." Also a lot of homosexual people state that they were born gay, physiologists say that its there only defense when being ridiculed. Another point I'd like to raise is that some people want to stand out to get attention. Some people in school might deiced to be gay and tell everyone (god knows why because that would be very embarrassing) to get attention and might even turn gay during that event in time.
Debate Round No. 2
Laprlev

Con

There is more than likely a "gay gene."

"Sexual orientation has nothing to do with choice. Our findings suggest there may be genes at play, and we found evidence for two sets that affect whether a man is gay or straight," said Michael Bailey of Northwestern University, who carried out the research."

This is what they found:

"The study involved drawing blood from 409 gay brothers and heterosexual members of their families. Analysis confirmed that an area on the X chromosome - which men inherit from their mothers -- known as Xq28 has some impact on sexual orientation. Another stretch of DNA on chromosome 8 also affects male sexual behavior, they said.

While the work has yet to be published, the findings confirm the results of a controversial study conducted in 1993 by Dean Hamer, a scientist at the U.S. National Cancer Institute. Hamer studied the family history of more than 100 gay men and found that more than 10 percent of brothers of gay men were gay themselves. This is a vast difference from just 3 percent for the general population. Hamer tied sexual orientation to the mother's side of the family. In a follow-up work, he found 33 out of 40 gay brothers had similar genetic markers on the Xq28 region of the X chromosome, the Guardian reports.

At the time, Hamer's study concluded that there is "99.5 percent certainty that there is a gene (or genes) in this area of the X chromosome that predisposes a male to become a heterosexual.""

The latest study confirms Hamer's findings and suggests that a man's sexual orientation depends on about 30 to 40 percent of genetic factors, while environmental factors, including the hormones a fetus is exposed to in the womb, may also influence a man's sexuality." [http://www.ibtimes.com...]

This study supports the 1993 study of Hamer's and builds onto it, adding credibility. However, the study did suggest that "a man's sexual orientation depends on about 30% to 40% of genetic factors." So, it may not be all genetic, but that large of percentages in a biological, genetic sense are enormous. Also, they determined that environmental factors, "hormones a fetus is exposed to in the womb," such as my argument above, influences sexuality. These findings correlate. And, regarding your comment, "...gay people have a choice to oppose the "gene," you cannot, by the laws of science, oppose something as hardwired in your body such as a gene. That is like opposing the gene in people that gives somebody brown hair because they want blonde hair. It just doesn't work like that.

Onto your comment, "...physiologists say that it's their only defense when being ridiculed." Do you have sources for that? I have done my fair share of research on differing gay issues and have never run across anything like that.

Finally, you raise your point of people wanting to stand out to get attention. This is irrelevant to the debate at hand. We are not talking about people who want to stand out. We are talking about people who truly are homosexual and have been for years.

Closing Statement: With scientific findings, both recent and long-ago documented, that correlate to each other regarding the biological aspect of homosexuality, there is very strong proof that homosexuals do not choose their sexuality.
RedRum

Pro

So if you're saying that these works have not been at all published how am I to know if what your saying is even remotely true.
Just because you have had homosexual or heterosexual feelings for as long as you can remember, does not mean you were born a homosexual or heterosexual. There are many things I have felt or done for as long as I can remember. I have always liked to argue. I have always loved drawing feet and shoes. I have always craved cheddar cheese. I have always felt a strong connection with happy, trashy pop music. These have been aspects of myself for as long as I can remember, and each represents a very strong impulse in me. But was I born with a desire to eat cheddar cheese or make drawings of feet? Are these desires that can be identified somewhere in my body, like on one of my genes? It would be hard to make these claims, because I could have been born and raised in China, let"s say, where cheddar cheese is basically non-existent and would not have been part of my life. And while I may have been born with some general artistic potential, surely our genetic material is not so specific as to determine that I would love to draw platform shoes. The point here is that what we desire in childhood is far more complex and multifaceted than the biological sciences can account for, and this goes for our sexual desires as well. Some basic raw material is in place (like a general potential for creativity), but the details"well, those are ours to discover. Please read whole website as I will use this as my arguement [http://socialinqueery.com...]

No I do not have a source for my psychological point that I raised.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by skywaybill 2 years ago
skywaybill
as they said in a study if being gay was in a gene u would not exist u cannot have kids wich would make you extinct.like me being a hetorosexual im hard wired that way think nothing of men sexualy,so if homos were hard wired 100 percent/gene/you would not exist.ur parents would have to b gay if they are u wouldnt b here if they were genecticaly homos,like u say no choice,so ur argument is bull.if gay was not having a choice and ur genes have hardwired 100 percent gay,u would b extinct.so thats y ur argument is a crock ,sorry
Posted by ChosenWolff 3 years ago
ChosenWolff
I would like to debate this
Posted by ShadowKingStudios 3 years ago
ShadowKingStudios
An English major encompasses many, many fields that don't rely on having an inclination to know exactly how a word is spelled, pronounced, or its class. The only common denominator that all share, other than pertaining to "English", is that of grammar understanding. But I do agree, I see it a lot too. So I'll judge this debate based on superior spelling & grammar.
Posted by Laprlev 3 years ago
Laprlev
I would just like to say something. There is a trend occurring with the voting. Now, I am not saying this to "take shots," but most people are tying us on spelling and grammar. I mean, come on. I'm not one to flaunt around, but it is pretty obvious that I blew him away with that. Seriously, I'm an English major at one of the top 20 schools with the smartest students, according to the Business Insider at least. Be fair with the voting please.
Posted by cwt002 3 years ago
cwt002
Dr. John Tay, a clinical geneticist and former Head of the Division of Human Genetics in NUS (one of the top universities in the world), stated that "The effects of genes on behavior are very indirect because genes make proteins, not preferences. The scientific truth is that our genes do not force us into anything. Genes are responsible for an indirect influence, but on average, they do not force people into homosexuality. The startling conclusion is that genetic factors are much less important than environmental ones in the causation of homosexuals. On this basis, the claim by homosexuals that "I am born that way, so I cannot change" is simply not true." This mans entire career was focused on genetics and found no connection.
Posted by ShadowKingStudios 3 years ago
ShadowKingStudios
Conscious choice defines every action. If you desire to have sexual relations with a person, you have to first choose a decision: whether to or whether not to. Every action, desire, or mental calculation involves the mental capacity to choose an option. Cause and effect are never mute--not on a physical plane, emotional plane, & spiritual plane. There is not one example anyone can give that does not involve "cause & effect" and "choice."
Posted by Shadow-Dragon 3 years ago
Shadow-Dragon
The vote from texans should be deleted. It is not a legit RFD...
Posted by Laprlev 3 years ago
Laprlev
Con, your source for the last round was not a credible source. It's simply a blog that ANYONE can create. Thus, making the information unreliable. Also, the term "published" in the term we are using it means, "communicate (a libel) to a third party." It does not mean that the reports are untrue. It only means that those reports have not been sent off to a third party (i.e. journals, magazines, etc.) to be published for sale.
Posted by Emily77 3 years ago
Emily77
For what is an extremely interesting topic, this debate was really terrible. If 'Pro' had no defensible position, he shouldn't have accepted the debate. If ever you'd like a rematch, laprlev, feel free to challenge me. I'd love to debate you on this topic.
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by ShadowKingStudios 3 years ago
ShadowKingStudios
LaprlevRedRumTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Based on Criteria #4, Con is right, his arguments are indisputably superior to Pro's in spelling & grammar. Pro... I'm not gay myself I have a girlfriend=3, using "myself" in the statement "I'm not gay myself" is idle. The same thing is said w/o "myself"; no COMMA, SEMICOLON, or PERIOD to separate the 2 statements. they have all said=1; They all have said/They'll have. Latter shows why this structure is correct, because "said" cannot follow "they'll" and make sense. Very sorry for that half way through my argument=3; begins lazy (needs an "I'm"); it's halfway; no period or semicolon follows the argument. But as I was saying=1; but & as are conjunctions. so why does a sentence begin with 2? It's like saying,: "But, but" "As, as" "And, and" 1st Argument=###, contains a 48-word run-on sentence with no punctuation marks. deiced=This word is the transitive verb past tense for "to prevent or remove ice formation." Yes, I know he meant "decided". On a glance I counted 9 more S&G err
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
LaprlevRedRumTied
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Reasons for voting decision: This was a horrible debate. I can only hope that both of you are teenagers, because at least that would explain why you are such knuckleheads.
Vote Placed by revic 3 years ago
revic
LaprlevRedRumTied
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Reasons for voting decision: This could've been so much more interesting... Con was very convincing, but pro succeeded in making me doubt Con's resolution. Partial credit to both!
Vote Placed by Imhellspawn2 3 years ago
Imhellspawn2
LaprlevRedRumTied
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Reasons for voting decision: i really think that people can chose to be gay or striaght or bisexual you do in a way have a choice
Vote Placed by voxprojectus 3 years ago
voxprojectus
LaprlevRedRumTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Come on. Pro literally said gay people "feel gay" from a young age. Even he doesn't think it's a choice.
Vote Placed by neutral 3 years ago
neutral
LaprlevRedRumTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I am not sure how to say this, but both sides basically argued feelings on this one. The one sources, birth order ... would be a highly subjective case - I am also third born ... and I am married to a woman with two kids. Honestly, as I look at this debate, I don't really see much more being asked here or argued other than, "Do you FEEL that homosexuality is born or choice?" Well, that question is answered ... I think?
Vote Placed by WilliamsP 3 years ago
WilliamsP
LaprlevRedRumTied
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Reasons for voting decision: First, I must agree with Con. Here is my RFD: Conduct is tied, because there were no forfeitures or insults. Spelling and grammar goes to Con, because I noticed a few mistakes by Pro that bugged me enough to award that point to Con. Furthermore, Con clearly made the more convincing arguments: they were longer, contained more sources, and were simply better formatted. Reliable sources goes to Con; there were more of them and they were used more effectively. In conclusion, Con argued more effectively than Pro, but I feel there were some missed arguments. Also, I believe that Pro's arguments are unfounded. I would be willing to debate this issue with someone. I am very knowledable about this issue. Homosexuality is the result of an evolutionary process. It is natural in the animal kingdom. Hundreds and hundreds of species practice homosexuality.
Vote Placed by johnlubba 3 years ago
johnlubba
LaprlevRedRumTied
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Reasons for voting decision: It's a very tough call but I liked the argument put forward by Pro in the third round, that maybe we acquire a taste or desire to do something whilst at a young age which we can not remember how we acquired it, but nevertheless we choose it. Tough to call but my vote goes to Pro.