The Instigator
walkerajr
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
JustCallMeTarzan
Con (against)
Winning
21 Points

Do imaginary things truly exist or not? Can this universe be a universe that has real and non-real p

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/15/2008 Category: Science
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,405 times Debate No: 1813
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (5)
Votes (7)

 

walkerajr

Pro

Do imaginary things truly exist or not? Can this universe be a universe that has real and non-real parts to it?

I think that if we know that mathematics explains natural phenomenon with accuracy and precision. Maybe the study of the diffent classes of numbers can tell us something about how many different measurements we can possibly get out of reality. Maybe irrational numbers do materially exist. These numbers would represent measurements of the real world or "material" world. Maybe Imaginary numbers can explains measurements, for instance, the volume of mind. How the length of a thought.
JustCallMeTarzan

Con

Sorry for the delay in posting my rebuttal - I had some computer problems and beginning of classes... Anyway, here goes...

Imaginary things do not exist. If they existed, they could not, by definition, be imaginary. To answer your other question, yes there are portions of the universe with a real quality, but no substantial existence. For example, perfect equilateral triangles are able to be conceptualized, thus they exist, but they are not actualized (no concrete examples).

Imaginary numbers cannot be used to "measure" anything. In order to measure something, it must be quantifiable. Numbers like the square root of -1 are not quantifiable, because they simply don't exist. They CAN'T materially exist. It's easy to understand how 2 is the square root of 4. But it is impossible to multiply a real number by itself and obtain a negative number.

Attempting to quantify things that are not actualized - like volume of mind or length of a thought - cannot be done. In order to be quantified, the thing must have a quantifiable aspect. For example, even though perfect equilateral triangles are not actualized, one can quantify the length of a side, or the number of them that are cognized. This is because we can assign a hypothetical actualization to the thought temporarily. To assign a hypothetical actualization to something like volume of mind is impossible without assigning an endless string of variables to the hypothetical. - What shape is it? What is the density of thought in this volume?

To arbitrarily assign variables to uncognizable and unactualized things is pointless. If I tell you my volume of mind is 13.24i, schifty-five, or 9 scrinnies, you have no idea at all what I mean. I might as well tell you my volume of mind is warke ug froppen. The length of my thought is dublor gorney.

Assigning imaginary variables to other imaginary things is completely pointless.
Debate Round No. 1
walkerajr

Pro

walkerajr forfeited this round.
JustCallMeTarzan

Con

Well I suppose since there's no rebuttal, I'll just not post anything substantiative. My argument stands - you can't use imaginary measurements to quantify an imaginary things in any sort of meaningful way.
Debate Round No. 2
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by kotamo 9 years ago
kotamo
we are all paradoxes everything we see is a paradox. were just spiraling down farther and farther into infinity ... just accept it.
Posted by kenicks 9 years ago
kenicks
i admire walkerajr's confidence by bringing up this theory, but cannot agree with him.
Posted by JustCallMeTarzan 9 years ago
JustCallMeTarzan
I understand imaginary numbers and their application to the real world. But in this case, Pro argued for their use in LENGTH and VOLUME - and they cannot be used there. Take for example the equation 1 + e^(pi * i) = 0.... certainly true, and possibly useful, but says absolutely nothing about the nature of quantifiable measurements.
Posted by lazarus_long 9 years ago
lazarus_long
Oh, sigh. Now "Tarzan" is also confused about just what "imaginary" means with respect to numbers. It's going to come as a surprise to him, I have to assume, to learn that "imaginary numbers" most certainly ARE used to "measure" things. They may not be what you would commonly encounter as "material" measurements - i.e., we generally don't turn to "imaginary" numbers when dealing with things like weight, length, or area - but there are actually quite a few engineering calculations which involve "real" (in the sense of being physical phenomena) things but which involve "imaginary" numbers.

The problem here is that the word "imaginary" simply DOES NOT mean, in math, what it means in lay usage. It would have been better, perhaps, if some other word had been chosen for use here, but it's a bit late to be changing that now.
Posted by lazarus_long 9 years ago
lazarus_long
This should be interesting. "Pro" is clearly confused about just what is meant by the term "imaginary" number in mathematics (and confusing those with "irrational" numbers, to boot!).
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by tara6510 9 years ago
tara6510
walkerajrJustCallMeTarzanTied
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Vote Placed by uiop 9 years ago
uiop
walkerajrJustCallMeTarzanTied
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Vote Placed by solo 9 years ago
solo
walkerajrJustCallMeTarzanTied
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Vote Placed by mmadderom 9 years ago
mmadderom
walkerajrJustCallMeTarzanTied
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Vote Placed by lexmastaflex013 9 years ago
lexmastaflex013
walkerajrJustCallMeTarzanTied
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Vote Placed by kenicks 9 years ago
kenicks
walkerajrJustCallMeTarzanTied
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Vote Placed by JustCallMeTarzan 9 years ago
JustCallMeTarzan
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