The Instigator
Debatwinnerpro
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
ConservativeGiraffe
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Do people who don't believe in Christ go to hell(in Christianity)

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/7/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 527 times Debate No: 104810
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (27)
Votes (0)

 

Debatwinnerpro

Con

I am a christian and i DO NOT BELIEVE THE EVIL DOCTRINE THAT PEOPLE WHO DONT BELIEVE IN CHRIST GO TO HELL.
First round is acceptance, and name one scripture that proves you right.

Matthew 7: 17-23
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?' Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.'"

according to this verse believing is Jesus isn't the only qualification to go to heaven.
ConservativeGiraffe

Pro

Hello! I am indeed a Christian, so don't worry about that.

According to Romans 6:23, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Here it is in logic:

1. Everyone is a sinner. ("...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..." Romans 3:23)
2. All sinners go to Hell. ("The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them." Ezekiel 18:20)
3. Therefore, we all will go to Hell.

BUT, that's obviously not all.

If a sinner believes in Jesus, (s)he will be saved. If not, they go to Hell. "Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.' " John 14:6

Jesus said (remember, Jesus=God, a.k.a. infallibility) that he was the only way to get to the Father, a.k.a. God the Faher, who is in Heaven.

I just debunked your entire argument in one verse; vote Pro.
Debate Round No. 1
Debatwinnerpro

Con

OK, well. Does a 5 year old who dies go to hell, just because he has never heard the name of Christ? Does a baby, incapable of believing in christ go to heaven?

Even you believe Jesus forgives us for our sins so we go to heaven. well like i said
Matthew 7: 17-23
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?' Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.'" so just because you believe in Jesus, and pray for forgiveness it doesnt mean you go to heaven.

im a christian, that doctrine is evil. Jesus taught us about loves, its the gospel which mean "the GOOD news" all non-believers going to hell is NOT the good news.

Even pope francis believes that even athiests can go to heaven http://www.catholic.org...
im not a catholic, but that is a great doctrine.

by your belief even Gandhi goes to hell, i dont think that such a great person deserves to eternally suffer through unimaginable pain, forever.

I dont think anyone, murderers, rapists, molesters(im 14) deserves eternal suffering. i would not wish that on the worst of my enemies. nobody ever deserves that, nobody in the history of the universe EVER.
ConservativeGiraffe

Pro

I will now refute all of my opponent's points.

1) " Does a 5 year old who dies go to hell, just because he has never heard the name of Christ? Does a baby, incapable of believing in christ go to heaven?"

My opponent asks if a five-year-old would go to Hell because he had never heard of the name of Christ.

It depends. Has the child repented, and asked for forgiveness? The same logic applies to everyone"even babies, which makes abortion so deplorable. It's robbing someone of the chance of redemption. It sounds harsh, but Christianity is not necessarily a feel-good religion.

2) "just because you believe in Jesus, and pray for forgiveness it doesnt mean you go to heaven."

Con proceeds to re-state the bible verse (Matthew 7:17-23), which I admittedly forgot about in my previous rebuttal. Con states that, "just because you believe in Jesus, and pray for forgiveness it doesnt mean you go to heaven." That is true, but it does not support his side of the resolution. I agree that some people who lay claim to Christianity won't go to Heaven, but this verse fails to prove that belief/repentance is not a prerequisite to redemption/entrance to Heaven.

3) "im a christian, that doctrine is evil. Jesus taught us about loves, its the gospel which mean "the GOOD news" all non-believers going to hell is NOT the good news."

I am also a Christian. Whether or not Con as a person believes that doctrine is evil is irrelevant. Yes, Jesus taught us to love everyone. People are perfectly capable of loving others with different beliefs than themselves.

Con completely misses the point of the Gospel"before the Gospel, EVERYONE was going to Hell (because there is literally no way to keep all of those laws completely"nobody is perfect, other than Jesus). After the Gospel, people had a choice to go to Heaven or Hell, by repenting/believing, or not repenting/believing. The fact that everyone has a chance is the good news.

4) "Even pope francis believes that even athiests can go to heaven http://www.catholic.org......
im not a catholic, but that is a great doctrine."

Catholicism does not represent all of Christianity, therefore Con's source is an invalid representation of all of Christianity. (Hey, I'm Protestant, too! Last Halloween was the 500th Anniversary of Reformation Day"cool, huh?)

5) "by your belief even Gandhi goes to hell, i dont think that such a great person deserves to eternally suffer through unimaginable pain, forever."

Con describes Ghandi as "a great person". While this is true, being "a great person" is not sufficient, unless he was perfect, which is theologically unsound, according (again!) to Romans 3:23, "...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..."

Therefore, unless Ghandi repented/believed in Christ, he would indeed be going to Hell.

By Con's logic, if someone was good enough, they could get into Heaven, but that is equal to saying that Christ didn't really NEED to die on a cross.

5) "I I dont think anyone, murderers, rapists, molesters(im 14) deserves eternal suffering. i would not wish that on the worst of my enemies. nobody ever deserves that, nobody in the history of the universe EVER."

Your opinion is irrelevant.

Conclusion: I have refuted all of Con's points, vote Pro, and have a good day!
Debate Round No. 2
Debatwinnerpro

Con

You sir, have a horrible doctrine.
"My opponent asks if a five-year-old would go to Hell because he had never heard of the name of Christ.

It depends. Has the child repented, and asked for forgiveness? The same logic applies to everyone"even babies, which makes abortion so deplorable. It's robbing someone of the chance of redemption. It sounds harsh, but Christianity is not necessarily a feel-good religion."

You believe, that an innocent baby, burns forever, unbelievable torture. that is the most horrible thing i have ever heard.
also that doctrine is false

"2 Samuel 12:23
But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me.""
Samuel had a child with another women, and he died as an infant. but the baby however, went to heaven. this shows that people incapable of believing in Jesus do go to heaven.

"Con completely misses the point of the Gospel"before the Gospel, EVERYONE was going to Hell"
thats bullcrap, read this verse

""And he shall do with the bull as he did with the bull as a sin offering; thus he shall do with it. So the priest shall make atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them. (Leviticus 4:20)"

but the bible contradicts itself.

"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. (Hebrews 10:4)"

This is easy to resolve. the old testament verse does not say the sins are "Taken away"(like in the second verse) it just says they are forgiven. so you saying they all went to hell is wrong.

you claimed

"After the Gospel, people had a choice to go to Heaven or Hell, by repenting/believing, or not repenting/believing. The fact that everyone has a chance is the good news."

well, the bible says nobody has gone to heaven yet.

"John 3:13
And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."
ConservativeGiraffe

Pro

Con states that Pro has a horrible doctrine. Pro chooses to ignore this obvious logical fallacy (Ad Hominem, for future reference), and regrets that Con has attempted to turn a debate round from an intelligent discussion to an insult-fest, a violation of general debate etiquette.

Once more I will refute my opponent's points one by one.

1. "You believe, that an innocent baby, burns forever, unbelievable torture. that is the most horrible thing i have ever heard.
also that doctrine is false"

This is yet another logical fallacy (the Appeal to Emotion fallacy). Pro will now take Con's argument apart. Babies are hardly innocent, but even if they were to grow up, THEY WOULD HAVE SINNED. Period. The nature of mankind has been corrupted to be inherently sinful, therefore, however unfortunate it may be, they would go to Hell. Again, this is partly why abortion is deplorable.

The Bible verse cited alone does not disprove my point, and Con's contextualization is sourceless.

2. No, my point is not "bullcrap", as Con claimed it to be. Why is this point so hard to grasp?

A. Everyone was going to die because of sin. Everyone. ("For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 3:23)

B. Jesus saved all those who believed/repented in Him from Hell. ("Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.' " John 14:6)

This is great news! The fact that we even got a chance is incredible!

To address the second part of your point: "well, the bible says nobody has gone to heaven yet."

The Bible verse cited was BEFORE Jesus had died on the Cross to redeem his followers. So, to quote John 14:6, "Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.' "

Again, JESUS said this verse, and it completely disproves Con.

Vote Pro! Pro had the better spelling/grammar, better conduct (no insults!), addressed and refuted all of Con's points with solid logic and credible sources. Con, on the other hand, had atrocious grammar and spelling, conceded to multiple points, and insulted the doctrine of Pro, by calling it "evil".

P.S. Good job!

P.P.S. No hard feelings, I hope?

P.P.P.S. I'm a "ma'am", not a "sir".
Debate Round No. 3
27 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by InfamousJesse 2 months ago
InfamousJesse
There is no hell only annihilation lake of fire symbolic for annihilation
Posted by ConservativeGiraffe 2 months ago
ConservativeGiraffe
@Debatewinnerpro - I"d like to think of myself as open-minded; it"s just that you haven"t provided an argument convincing enough to win me over. Right now, I have an insane amount of homework, but I will get back to you ASAP.
Posted by Debatwinnerpro 2 months ago
Debatwinnerpro
one more thing, in the bible Jesus went to hell to convert people after he died
Posted by Debatwinnerpro 2 months ago
Debatwinnerpro
if God is merciful, would he sentence babies to hell? Shouldnt God give everyone a chance? Every christian has a different doctrine; Catholics, Cavalries, protestants. they all have different beliefs, most arent willing to change. i actually used to believe what you believe, i changed to my doctrine. I hope you are open minded.
Posted by ConservativeGiraffe 2 months ago
ConservativeGiraffe
Dang, a lot went down while I was gone.

@Stonehe4rt - You know, your position is actually really interesting"there was a huge debate about something like that in the Middle Ages, which is really cool. I personally disagree with that, but it is still very interesting to think about.

@Debatewinnerpro - Apology accepted. No hard feelings, I hope?
Posted by Debatwinnerpro 2 months ago
Debatwinnerpro
Sorry for calling you evil
Posted by Stonehe4rt 2 months ago
Stonehe4rt
@ Debatwinnerpro

You know, evil is a strong word. That is a word that I try to never associate with anyone. Bibically speaking, not even the Archangel Michael said a word against the devil. So you calling another person, especially one who is just trying to figure out the world and do what is right, evil. Is quite wrong itself. Sure call out the wrongdoings of your peers, that can help better each other. However trying to prove yourself better than your opponent is something that I cannot agree with.

I get it doe, I mean who hasn't insulted another person, especially over the internet. It is easy to do, but being Christian means to fight, not only the big urges to do bad things, but even the little ones like this.
Just friendly advice and pointing out where to improve. If you happen to ever see me commenting something like that, i would be in the wrong, and will gladly take such constructive criticism.

Again, I wouldn't call anyone evil, specifically in this case were it is literally a misinterpretation. This is where you should simply speak the truth instead of feeling anger towards an ideology that differs from your own. The goal of these debates isn't to just get another win under your belt, it is to convince your opponent, and convince those who would read this debate.

While on that subject, I don't believe either of you. Which seems like it would be impossible. Either you have to know Jesus to go to paradise, or you don't. My take on it is this: If someone has never heard of Jesus, they can still accept him. How is this possible, because if the Christian God is true, he must apply to everyone, even those who have not heard of him. The criteria is simple, try to be Christ-like. Even if you don't know who Christ is, follow that path and you are Christian. Don't judge others, but point out their mistakes. Treat everyone, even your enemies with love. Treat others as you would treat yourself. Anyone can be Christian if they are honestly trying to be g
Posted by Debatwinnerpro 2 months ago
Debatwinnerpro
you accuse me of being mean? "Shut your trap" thats a quote from you. im being logical, you are being evil
Posted by Debatwinnerpro 2 months ago
Debatwinnerpro
no, i told you i am 14 because you accused me of bad spelling. and it sounds kinda babyish when you say "he is being mean. MOMMY IVE BEEN PROVEN WRONG,HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Your doctrine is pure evil. you logic says that all the African slaves that were not christian BURN IN HELL FOREVER, they suffered in this world, now you going to cast them to eternal suffering.
Posted by Stonehe4rt 2 months ago
Stonehe4rt
Now I understand people would refute that God IS love since he has done some thing we would find violent. But this is explained by the ironic statement that Jesus had said "He without Sin cast the first Stone". Funny thing is, in that situation Jesus had every right to throw the stone. God has the right to stone EVERYONE because of what jerks we are. But he didn't throw the stone in that situation? Why? Because God IS Love and merciful. And also by him showing mercy it shows just how crap we are BECAUSE HE HAD THE RIGHT TO THROW IT, yet we do not.

Then what about Deuteronomy? It constantly tells us to stone that person and stone this person. But the bible is giving us laws to live by ASSUMING WE ARE ALL PERFECT! Such as the controversial verse stating that a rapist should marry the one he raped. Because Deuteronomy assumes the best of us, If that Rapist truly wanted to atone for what he had done and be a good person, he would dedicate his life to the one he had harmed and never be with anyone else. But unfortunately WE ARE ALL SINNERS. That is why Jesus was needed, because we couldnt follow the laws. Because we were so selfish. Think about it, if we were perfect, then OF COURSE we would have to get rid of those who are sinners. How else can you have a Utopia if you just keep tolerating the people doing horrible things to each other? Exile them? That is what God does. In the end, those who followed God's laws or lived by the words of Jesus will be in paradise, but those who spite God and refuse to be selfless will be outcast. And to be away from God is to suffer. Sorry for the tangent. Also noticed that my first comment appeared twice, wonder why that happens?
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