The Instigator
Con (against)
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The Contender
Pro (for)
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Do we have free will? or what is free will?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/1/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 428 times Debate No: 74646
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
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I am a Christian and would like to debate another Christian on Free will. The reason why debating another Christian is because I would like to learn what free will truly is. You see if we had free will how is God then still in control of everything? Take it this way God knows when we will die right? Well then doesn't God know how we will die. He does. Now say I was suppose to get murdered tomorrow by a person. Would it be correct to say the one who murdered me had free will to do so or would it be corrected to state God made it happen.


I accept. I thank Con for bringing up this topic, and am quite fascinated by it myself.

To be clear, I am also a Christian. I believe we do have free will.

Free will is defined as: : the ability to choose how to act
: the ability to make choices that are not controlled by fate or God

Now you bring up a good point in your first argument.

1. Free will and foreknowledge
God is omniscient, eg. All knowing. He knows all things, as you said. He does know when we will die, and to what, as well as everything else about us.

We as humans however, have not yet done most of the actions that God knows we will do. We can do whatever we want, but in the end, God knows what we will still do. Essentially we can do whatever we want, however, God know what we shall do before we do it.

2. Analogy of murder
As explained before, a murderer has a choice set before him: kill, or don't. God knows he will kill, yet the murderer isn't forced to do so. In the story of Adam and Eve, both were set in the garden. God knew they would eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, yet he still placed it in Eden. Why? Because he knew that even though they would mess up and eat of the fruit, he shouldn't deny them the chance to learn and grow from their failure. God could have easily prevented humanity from falling, yet he chose to allow us to choose, and we did.

Thank you Con for this interesting topic! I hope you find your answers! :)
Debate Round No. 1


Since God is all powerful and he knows everything that is going to happen it is really then his will and not our own which then would bring back is our free will even free will at all. Since we have free will wouldn"t that mean we can pick a decision that God would not know but at the same time that can not happen because as Christians we believe that God is all powerful and all knowing so our free will is known by God already meaning Gods will is the one that actuarially matters then not our own. Right?So if that is right that has to mean we really don"t have free will. You did bring up a good point through in the example that God doesn"t force the murder to kill it is the murders free will choice to kill but at the same sense God already knew the person who the murder was going to murder would die and that was Gods will for that person to die. Right? Then is it that Gods will was for that murder to kill?


1. Possible contradictions
I am somewhat confused as to what you have said. I believe these were just a mistake of wording, but I will point them out for review.

"Is our free will even free at all" -according to this statement, we do have free will, thus rendering the con argument void. I will assume that this is a mistake of wording and continue on.

"Since we have free will..."- again, according to this statement, we do indeed have free will, this again nullifying Con's argument. I will still continue on however.

2. Omniscience
You stated that : "Since we have free will wouldn"t that mean we can pick a decision that God would not know but at the same time that can not happen because as Christians we believe that God is all powerful and all knowing so our free will is known by God already meaning Gods will is the one that actuarially matters then not our own."

God is omniscient, we have established this, as you yourself have said. Free will is defined essentially as a sort of no interference policy of God. God simply knowing that one will do something, and God making one do that same thing, are completely different. One of the basic tenants of Christian faith is that God is all powerful, all knowing, and always present. Stating that we as humans would make a decision that even God would not know, borders on attacking the pillars of the Christian faith.

Yes God's will matters. He is God. However at the end of the day, we still are the ones who choose to sin, not God. God simply knows we will do the sin.

2. Murderer rebuttal
God knew that the man killed by the murderer was going to die. It is all part of God's perfect plan for redemption. However God did not necessarily will that person to die, one of us humans, fallen, sinful humans, chose to kill him. God did know this was going to happen, and factored it into his plan. He does say he loves us, even sacrificing his son for our sake. God knew the action the murderer would take and planned appropriately. He could still have saved that person at any time, but chose not to, showing that the murderer still indeed retained his free will, even through a heinous action.
Debate Round No. 2


So what you are saying is God is always one step ahead of us. Right? (which I agree with this fully) but at the same time if he is always ahead of us how does free will play in our lives. Although you have used a very great example (and I want to thank for that too because it is helping me to understand this better also) that God does not force us to do anything, like you said in the murder example the sinful human was able to choose for his own self to kill but God used that matter for his plan but again if God is always a step ahead of us then isn"t that really Gods will after all and not our own even though God isn"t forcing us to do anything like kill someone he knows what will happen so it kinda is like his will after all isn"t it?


1. Transcending of time
Yes, God transcends time, so it is logical to assume he is everywhere in our timeline at once. Our free will and subsequent decision's results are factored in to God's plan for the redemption of the human race, with a slight difference from human plans. In God's plan, he already knows the future of our actions, and is thus able to plan accordingly.

2. God's will
Yes I agree 100% God's will is to turn "all evil things to good." His will is to use us, his children, to solve the problems we made during the Fall of man. God's will is the ultimate authority, but his will is to see us grow by making mistakes, and learning from them. Hence, we have free will, because without such, we would not be able to use our actions to shape the world and fix the problems we caused in the first place.

Thank you Con for this debate! I hope you have had most if not all of your questions answered! Continue your walk, and never lose faith!
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Furyan5 1 year ago
I have a question for you. Evil exists. Everything that exists was created by gods will. So did God create evil? If you respond that man created evil I ask who created man? Gods forknowledge means he knew we would create evil. That makes God accomplace in the creation of evil. This is the pivotal question which holds me back from embracing religion and if anyone can help me I would be eternally grateful. Without religion my future looks rather bleak. Please help.
Posted by Furyan5 1 year ago
All my friends are in hell. Hell is a nice place to go. Therefore God is good to send me there.
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
everyone that goes to hell is sent there by god then, so god is a sinner not any one else
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