The Instigator
votership
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Nails
Con (against)
Winning
21 Points

Do we need ECONOMIC FREEDOM?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/2/2010 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,633 times Debate No: 10644
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (15)
Votes (3)

 

votership

Pro

In 1947 India got its Political Freedom, We started a new story and dreamed a great nation in next 50 years .

After 62 years of freedom, We have got a lot, We have done greats and now indians are known every place.

Indian companies are doing amazing growths. Indian business man become highest earner .

But have you ever think? What about those 30 Cr. poor people who does not have food to eat.. Does not have pure water to drink.. does not have school to send thier child.. and does not have home to live??

Ever you concerned about them ????

You must have think about them but due to busy schedule, office work, College/school study or home task never let you to work for them.

But this is time when we need to start a new revolution that is "ECONOMIC FREEDOM"

Mr. Bharat Gandhi - A politics Reformer : Submitted a petition in parliament with support of 112 MPs ( LokSabha) and 25 MPs (RajyaSabha)

This petition demands 1750 rs to be deposited in voters Bank account that can be withdrawal using ATM across country. 1750 Rs is approx calculation of half GDP's Per capita income.

Mr. gandhi suggest to have a system that gives power to voters to decide how to use money but same time he thinks about infrastructure development. So per person has 3500 rs as per capita income of nation. Votership allows them to use 1750 as per votership decision and other half will be used by govt to ensure development.

This system will ensure strengthen democracy and will remove corruption as now money will directly will go account of voters.

This also will ensure every child get education as now people will send their child in school as poor person will not worried for evening food.

This will act as power tool for poor labor who has to work by violating rule of minimum labor cost because they are worried for evening food.

VOTERSHIP is a solution of many problem that India is facing from last century.

To know more about VOTERSHIP you can visit us at : www. votership. com or www.fefm.com

Or you may write me back
Nails

Con

Seeing as this debate has 5 rounds, I'll keep my first round argument short.

This money isn't going to do anything productive. If you give free money to people, they don't feel any responsibility to use it wisely. It was a gift, not something they earned through their hard work.

Just look what happened after Hurricane Katrina in America. FEMA spent millions of dollars to provide $2,000 dollars to all of the victims who were particularly hard hit by the hurricane. Just look at what happened:

"The $2,000 debit cards issued to hurricane evacuees for emergency supplies were often used for purchases unrelated to disaster aid, including: adult entertainment, gambling, a $450 tattoo, a .45-caliber handgun for $1,300 and a diamond engagement ring for $1,100."[1]

India, like Louisiana in 2005, is in bad shape, but throwing money at the problem is not the answer.

I propose one or more of the following:
-Increasing the amount of available jobs
-Increasing pay for government jobs
-Increasing minimum wage

Such methods as these will essentially do the same thing as my opponent's plan; money will be put back into the hands of India's citizens. However, unlike PRO's idea, this teaches the concepts of hardwork and responsibility, that one can succeed with a bit of diligence, but not by sitting around allowing the government to hand out money.

[1] http://www.msnbc.msn.com...
Debate Round No. 1
votership

Pro

•This money isn't going to do anything productive. Votership ‘s Mission is not production but here its Aim is to provide a support to those who are really poor and dying because they do not have money even for food and cloth.

•If you give free money to people, they don't feel any responsibility to use it wisely. There is no fact and figure that can prove that if we provide money it poor people will not use it wisely. However Some opponent of votership says : Poor people will start drinking and will waste this money.

* First, this is just a one's not fact based logic so there is no use of it.

*Second, Ok, we take it as logic still in India women do drink but they do die because of hunger why they should bear.
Third: This can be control because govt. can raise price so that only rich or middle rich can buy alcohol.

Another fact that In India there are school where people can send their children for free education but fact is most of school are empty. This is because Poor people do not send their child to school as they force to them to do work (This is called Child labor work) And their monthly income is around $ 17-22 ( Rs 800 – 1000 ) Once Votership will parent will not force to them because they will have 1750 Rs + 1750 Rs of spouse = 3500 Rs + 4000- 6000 Rs as their work

SO they will have greater chance to save money also educated their child.
It is universally accepted fact that educated citizen makes a developed nation and peaceful environment and keep take care of family planning.

•India's labor force is growing at a rate of 2.5 per cent annually, but employment is growing at only 2.3 per cent. Thus, the country is faced with the challenge of not only absorbing new entrants to the job market (estimated at seven million people every year), but also clearing the backlog.

This statement tells a story of truth that India can't get clear the backlog so how can provide jobs to 100%

There are 25 cr. People who comes below poverty line in india.

There are 47 Cr people who do not have permanent job and do not earn $ 1 per day.

Food prices are kissing sky how to get poor food and cloths.

I propose one or more of the following:
-Increasing the amount of available jobs
-Increasing pay for government jobs
-Increasing minimum wage

-------

India has top 5 fastest growing economy rate you can find each and every company here.
Still there is no major impact on because these companies provide job only to educate to middle and upper middle not to poor man.

Govt. has sold most of public companies and trying to sale rest so no hope in government jobs because all government companies are lose making companies.

# India has Rs 80 per day In September 2007 but poor are so poor that they do not have any saving if they have to eat today they have to earn today. This urgency leads them, to work even Rs 40 per day.

# Voership will give them a security so now they will not to work if they get less then minimum wage. They can raise voice and ask not to work day or two.

# To get work done now firm has to pay minimum wage.
Nails

Con

This is just an advertisement. I'm not going to waste further time on this.
Debate Round No. 2
votership

Pro

I would like to clear this is not an advertisement Because PIL do not comes in advertisement segment.

And by saying this is an advertisement you can't withdrawal from debate.

You put your point and let me put my point to you. This debate is not for just win or lose.

This petition can give oxygen to poor and have-nots. so i would request you to continue with arguments.

However final decision is always yours.

I also request other people if would like to continue to this debate please join.

Thanks
Nails

Con

Ok then, I'll continue.

•"This money isn't going to do anything productive. Votership ‘s Mission is not production."

Ok, so he admits I'm right, but we can continue.

•"There is no fact and figure that can prove that if we provide money it poor people will not use it wisely.
* First, this is just a one's not fact based logic so there is no use of it."

How can you possibly have facts about what is going to have it in the future?
Unlike PRO, I can at least come close. Look at history; such a plan has never worked in the past. Go to your nearest big city. You'll see homeless people begging for money. You'll also see them spending it on getting plastered. As mentioned above, there's the example of New Orleans. What examples could PRO provide of free money ever working?

•"*Second, Ok, we take it as logic still in India women do drink but they do die because of hunger why they should bear"

This is an appeal to emotion. The rough truth is that this plan isn't goin to help anyone, just waste most of India's money.

•"Third: This can be control because govt. can raise price so that only rich or middle rich can buy alcohol.

This not only completely contradicts his previous point that the poor need alcohol to bear their pain, but won't work either. As seen during the Prohibition period, people tend to cause an uproar when they can't get their booze. Also seen during the Prohibition, instead of refraining from drinking, people just make alcohol illegally.

•"Once Votership will parent will not force to them because they will have 1750 Rs + 1750 Rs of spouse = 3500 Rs + 4000- 6000 Rs as their work"

So, where does this continuous stream of money come from if nobody has to work anymore?

•"these companies provide job only to educate to middle and upper middle not to poor man."

So why are we giving them free money instead of giving them an education?

•"all government companies are lose making companies."

I can't make a comprehensible sentence from this.

•"Voership will give them a security so now they will not to work if they get less then minimum wage"

So they're going to be paid for doing nothing?

---

I understand that India's in bad shape, but this doesn't help them whatsoever. If you just throw free money at them and teach them that they don't have to work, that money's not going to last long. Instead, we need to build a competent work-force and giving people free money so that they don't have an incentive to work won't do that.
Debate Round No. 3
votership

Pro

Here again I would like to get noticed to you that Votership is a concept that will rectified errors that present system has.
In India we are already spending a huge amount for development of poor and on education and to get control over Aids.

But due to problem in system and distribution of medicine, funds and plans. If central govt. spends $ 100, bottom line gets benefit of $ 15 only this is how present system works.

Govt. has enough money and India is IInd fastest country is world. So I would like to tell that India is no way in bad shape. India has far better opportunity than any other nation.

Even in next 30 years, India will cross China in economy because Indian population are younger and far better in quality Indian firms get more awards for quality and better management than Japan or US . So nither we have problem of scarcity of Food, and any other recourse only we are lacking in energy but after deals with US and other countries.

We are working to match demands of energy. Votership only trying to help system in shape so when India grows bottom line population also grows and prosper same time.

No country can prosper without development of all citizen of that nation. If they do try, problem like crime and other bad impact hit that countries.

To keep those problem Votership are suggesting and also fighting to get balance in system. Once votership will be come as act. India will have unbelievable growth.

India will need a huge man power to match demands and those demands only can be matched by educating people by supporting them micro finance and making them economical freedom by proving them basic need security.

This is also fact that Mind also does not works without proper and nutrient food. More than 25% population are forced to live in hunger or eat a food that has no nutritious at all.

Just we are changing flow of money and distribution channel and asking to shut the system which eat poor people money by making beaurocrats pockets.
Nails

Con

My opponent's latest rebuttal has nothing to do with anything I've said and ignores all of the most important flaws of this crazy welfare state that he proposes.
Debate Round No. 4
votership

Pro

Just Ignoring things is not solution if you do not like and it can't work just give us fact and argue. Just saying it is crazy welfare it not that answer. As I already said this debate it nothing to do with Win and lose. This is a healthy discussion to get things to get noticed that humanity should be served in better way. Due to problem of poverty and illiteracy not only affect one nation it does affact whole world. So whole world should come at one plateform to get a better solution if Votership is not workable gives a reason fact and data. Or better give us a better solution than votership. We will support because our Aim is to get solve problem of illiteracy and poverty.
Nails

Con

My opponent has decided to, for the second time, ignore every argument I made in previous rounds.

The fact of the matter is that throwing money at people doesn't motivate them to work. It just depletes our resources. PRO has only ignored the numerous flaws with his system and just continued to harp about an idealistic Indian society. This idea of his won't get him there. Vote CON.
Debate Round No. 5
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by RoyLatham 7 years ago
RoyLatham
India struggled for many years after independence under democratic socialism. It was an economic disaster, like China. The India case is described in Friedman's "The Lexus and the Olive Tree." Prosperity in both India and China began with the freeing of markets. There is no need to try it again to verify it still doesn't work.
Posted by Zetsubou 7 years ago
Zetsubou
Yeah, I noticed after reading it again. Thanks anyway.
Posted by Cody_Franklin 7 years ago
Cody_Franklin
Freedom WITHIN economics, not FROM economics. :)

Nice semantic twist, though. I like it.
Posted by Nails 7 years ago
Nails
If economics doesn't exist, then certainly we are free from it?
Posted by Cody_Franklin 7 years ago
Cody_Franklin
"Economics doesn't exist; therefore, you cannot have economic freedom. Vote Con."
Posted by wjmelements 7 years ago
wjmelements
Because the Instigator was an advertiser, he could have done whatever and still won.
Posted by Cody_Franklin 7 years ago
Cody_Franklin
I would rather have seen you negate that we need economic freedom. "Everybody should be happy to work for the state... for free."
Posted by wjmelements 7 years ago
wjmelements
Dude, learn to economics. Minimum wage raise is fail.
Posted by Nails 7 years ago
Nails
My opponent's account has been closed...
Posted by I-am-a-panda 7 years ago
I-am-a-panda
Anyway, all the money is in the hands of the state. It is communism\statism.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 7 years ago
RoyLatham
votershipNailsTied
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Vote Placed by Nails 7 years ago
Nails
votershipNailsTied
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Vote Placed by Koopin 7 years ago
Koopin
votershipNailsTied
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