The Instigator
norris.fung
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Boesball
Pro (for)
Winning
1 Points

Do you think Christopher Columbus is the first to discover America?

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
Boesball
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/5/2014 Category: People
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,661 times Debate No: 54035
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

norris.fung

Con

I just got a few points to say:

1. Map:
I think Christopher Columbus wasn't the first to discover America because in 1405, 87 years before Columbus discovered America (1492), a Chinese explorer named Zheng He (Real name Ma He), discovered America. The opponent may say that I haven't have any evidence to prove that, but Zheng He and his men drew a map about a new land (Which called America now).

If you still consider about the first paragraph, please feel free to watch this video:

2. Capacity of ships:
Within that, Zheng's ships is much bigger and safer than Columbus's ships. Then the opponent might say it's not related to the topic, and they will say that bigger doesn't mean it's safer, but think about that: The capacity of Zheng's ships was more than 400 feet long and can carry an amount of several hundred men, but Columbus' biggest ship, Santa Maria, was only eighty five feet long and can only carry forty men.
Also, British navy Gavin Menzies said that he believed that the Chinese mariners arrived to the Americas seven decades before Columbus.

3. Buried shipwrecks:
Gavin also cited that 'a buried object 85 feet long and 30 feet wide, very similar shapes to to the trading junks that accompanied Zheng He's treasure fleets'. Some people in America believed that the Newport, Rhode Island, Tower was built by Chinese explorers. That tower was really similar to the lighthouse built in Southern China during the 12th century.

Conclusion:
In my conclusion, I think that Christopher Columbus wasn't the first to discover America.
Boesball

Pro

I accept this challenge.

Now there is one grand point you fail to recognize in your argument. You don't know why America was called what it is. It is named after Amerigo Vespucci who was an explorer around the same time as Columbus (1). He was an Italian map maker. Technically, when the native Americans discovered that continent, it wasn't called America yet, so they didn't discover "America". They discovered an unnamed continent. It wasn't called America until Columbus' era, and therefore he discovered "America".

(1) http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 1
norris.fung

Con

Thank you for accepting my challenge. I am very pleased.
I agree of what you say about when the natives in America went there, it wasn't called America. But I strongly disagree you if you say Columbus discovered it 'first'. Here are the reasons why:
500 years ago before Columbus (992 year), Vikings led by Leif Eriksson set foot to North America and established a settlement. And long before that, some scholars say that the Americans were visited by seafaring travellers from China, and possibly visitors from Africa and even Ice Age Europe. In recent years, new evidence has came to light, so it can prove that Columbus was the last explorers to explore America, not the first.

Another possibility of who discovered America is China. As I said in the first round, Chinese explorer Zheng He has gigantic ships that make it safer and steadier. Compared to Columbus' ships, it was much smaller. Thus, Columbus had encountered bad weather during the trip to America. He also faced violent people. These challenges can make him harder to go there. In addition, Zheng He is 80 years older than Columbus, so is more worth a chance for Zheng He to discover America earlier than Columbus.

I understand why you say Columbus is first, but there are explorers much earlier than Columbus to find America, and Zheng He is has the most chance to be the first discovering America.
Boesball

Pro

Christopher didn't discover the Western Hemisphere first, but he discovered America first because it wasn't called America till he got there.
Debate Round No. 2
norris.fung

Con

Well, you said that Christopher Columbus was not called America but you didn't have any evidence to prove that he was the first. Actually, the Vikings went to America too a hundred years ago before Columbus. So this can already say that Columbus wasn't the first to discover America.
Boesball

Pro

Christopher didn't discover the Western Hemisphere first, but he discovered America first because it wasn't called America till he got there. Others discovered "random land mass" not "America"
Debate Round No. 3
norris.fung

Con

norris.fung forfeited this round.
Boesball

Pro

He forfited.
Debate Round No. 4
norris.fung

Con

norris.fung forfeited this round.
Boesball

Pro

He forfeited
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by bladerunner060 3 years ago
bladerunner060
As always, happy to clarify this RFD.
Posted by bladerunner060 3 years ago
bladerunner060
RFD:

I have a tough time with this one. Conduct, obviously, for the forfeits. S&G was equal enough, I suppose. With arguments, though, Con clearly didn't address Pro's argument. Pro sidestepped the idea of discovering THE LAND, and focused on its labeling *as America*. I really don't think Con understood this point which, frankly, was the only way Pro had to try to actually get a win here, since it's just historical fact that Colubus can't really be said to have discovered the land we call America.

But Pro's case rests on the labeling. If this place was called "Columbia", I think his case would have had a degree of merit. Or if Columbus had named it America. But by Pro's arguments, it would be Vespucci who "was the first to discover America", when he named it such. Columbus just thought, remember, that he'd discovered an alternate route to India (hence Indians). America was first called America in 1507, by some mapmakers with a muddled sense of events.

I'm torn here--Con most definitely did not address this argument. But I don't really want to give points for Pro's argument, since it fails so obviously. But I guess, in the end, it's all about who made a better argument and, by never really addressing what Pro was getting at, I guess Pro's points have to stand, and so arguments, reluctantly, to Pro.
Posted by Azag 3 years ago
Azag
The natives discovered it first when they moved over from asia during the ice age. So...they were the first.
Posted by revic 3 years ago
revic
I doubt Zheng He has found America. Surely he was a great explorer.

One thing is for sure though. Vikings were the very first to discover America. That is what i was taught in my history university classes. They found Viking materials and plenty of other sources that indicate that this fact is true.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 3 years ago
bladerunner060
norris.fungBoesballTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments.